HGV begging letter

So you only believe in democracy when your winning?

Well, out of a total electorate of 46,500,001, 16,141,241 voted remain, 17,410,742 voted leave, a turnout of 72.2%. I’m not entirely sure the majority of the UK’s eligible population voted to leave, but even given those who did vote, the actual difference was marginal.

What is it about my singletrackworld username that bothers you so much? maybe you should reflect on this and it may help you address your motivation for Trolling complete strangers on the internet.

To me it seems clear that Kelvin feels that it is his role to keep the stw echo chamber squeaky clean and challenge any political variants of concern.

I have long assumed that he must be a mod due to the inordinate amount of time he spends on here without interruptions.

He often initially engages in half sensible debate but when he runs of things to say, or simply can’t provide a convincing counterargument, will resort to purile schoolyard taunting, as you have discovered.

It is a quite effective tactic, if the aim is to stifle political views which don’t conform to the stw consensus. I certainly can’t be arsed debating politics at that infantile level. So ultimately he wins.

Trolling complete strangers on the internet.

You might not be of course, but rather than a “complete stranger” you display many classic hallmarks of a returning banned user. It’s not unsurprising to me that a long-term user might be pulling at a thread.

I have long assumed that he must be a mod due to the inordinate amount of time he spends on here without interruptions.

He isn’t, unless he’s been appointed in the last few months. Your long assumption is incorrect I’m afraid.

It is a quite effective tactic, if the aim is to stifle political views which don’t conform to the stw consensus.

I get accused of “far right” views and I occasionally vote green. Consensus on the politics threads is definitely left of centre/ remain/ everyone who votes conservative is a neo racist xenophobic bigot etc

I certainly can’t be arsed debating politics at that infantile level.

And yet, here you are, following him over from the Kier Starmer thread, to continue your little campaign against him.

Cougar
Full Member
Trolling complete strangers on the internet.

You might not be of course, but rather than a “complete stranger” you display many classic hallmarks of a returning banned user. It’s not unsurprising to me that a long-term user might be pulling at a thread.

I have long assumed that he must be a mod due to the inordinate amount of time he spends on here without interruptions.

He isn’t, unless he’s been appointed in the last few months. Your long assumption is incorrect I’m afraid.

Of course I could be absolutely anyone if your imagination was allowed to run away with yourself.
Can you identify the many classic hallmarks of a returning banned user please? that comment seems to me like an excuse for Kelvins continued Trolling of myself.

Thank you @ernielynch – I am not intentionally political in my replies; although may express opinions that may be taken as one way or the other.
I would be hopeful that singletrackworld would ensure their mods on this site were not Trolls as Kelvin continually demonstrates himself to be; that he spends a lot of time on singletrackworld forum is probably typical of Troll behaviour too.

And yet, here you are, following him over from the Kier Starmer thread, to continue your little campaign against him.

That was such a bizarre claim Martin that I had to double-check the Keir Starmer thread.

And no, it’s been a long time since I’ve responded to a comment by Kelvin. He responded to one of my comments, I ignored his.

It’s in your imagination I’m afraid.

To bring things back on track a bit.

This week is the first week where the agency has drawn a blank for any HGV work for me. All the companies that want a Class 2 driver either want extra qualifications or are refusing to take someone with less than a year’s experience. I know that three of the companies are just not sending the deliveries out instead this week! So a recent pass Class 2 driver (me) is having to spend the week driving vans for under £10/hr, Brexit may have cut off the supply of European drivers but the companies aren’t helping themselves either.

Don’t worry, I still hold Boris responsible for the current chaos but something has to be seriously wrong when the government are sending out begging letters to all HGV license holders but if one tries to get work they’re essentially told they’re not wanted.

or are refusing to take someone with less than a year’s experience

This is an insurance thing. HGV fleet insurance is horrically expensive and the vast majority of ins co’s won’t offer policies to firms that use newly qualified drivers. It’s a nightmare because without driving you can’t get the experience etc. But the ins co’s have been well and truly hammered by HGV claims and don’t want a new driver behind the wheel of a vehicle they are insuring.

Also, it is short-sighted as you could get your licence, not drive for a year and then go straight in and you’d be fine as they only check the licence issue date.

Best of luck with it @reluctantjumper.
Is there an option available to look at another industry?
All the news of job vacancies etc, could this provide something in a different area than what you been looking?

My concern with HGV jobs now is that within a year or so there will be an oversupply of drivers and wages and conditions will return to normal.

Presumably there will be a new normal, otherwise if the old normal for wages and conditions return so will the old problems/shortages.

I’ve got no other real qualifications so it’s either HGV work or minimum wage stuff sadly. I did my Class 2 to get me above the van driving jobs where there is so much competition and hence piss poor wages and conditions!

Also, it is short-sighted as you could get your licence, not drive for a year and then go straight in and you’d be fine as they only check the licence issue date.

My brother-in-law’s dad has just ‘returned’ to HGV after a 12 year break. What that means is he passed his test 12 years ago but never found any work so hasn’t driven anything larger than a pickup since then. Got a job the day after completing his DCPC training despite no experience whatsoever. He asked about a job for me but they won’t touch anyone with less than 2 years since passing. He’s already bumped two trucks in the 7 weeks he’s been there!

ernielynch
Free Member
Presumably there will be a new normal, otherwise if the old normal for wages and conditions return so will the old problems/shortages

It would be nice to think HGV drivers will now be able to turn the industry around, and get paid a wage that recognises the challenges the job requires; since July I have been required to drive 2hours each way to Sheffield … I am exhausted the remainder of the week. I could never do 9 hours driving every day.

Good luck to the HGV drivers. Maybe it will empower the care workers facing similar challenges.

Well, out of a total electorate of 46,500,001, 16,141,241 voted remain, 17,410,742 voted leave, a turnout of 72.2%. I’m not entirely sure the majority of the UK’s eligible population voted to leave, but even given those who did vote, the actual difference was marginal.

Using those numbers only 37.4% of people actually wanted to stay🤷‍♂️

since July I have been required to drive 2hours each way to Sheffield … I am exhausted the remainder of the week. I could never do 9 hours driving every day

You’d be surprised how you adapt to long hours behind the wheel. Not HGV but I spend most of my working day driving. At first it was very tiring but soon got a lot easier.

I think someone explained that, as you put the hours in, more of the tasks move to the subconscious.

Wouldn’t want to drive an HGV though personally.

Also it’s amazing to me how it isn’t seen as a very skilled job being as many car drivers on the road seem out of depth driving those and can barely reverse into a supermarket space.

Reluctantjumper, I’m afraid the government have devalued class2 by allowing it to be skipped on the way to class1. You absolutely have to find a route to class1 ASAP now. My dad was lucky in his day, the RAF paid for him to get his licenses before he left, so he could be a driver for what was left of his working life (and some rule breaking went on for him to work beyond retirement range, but let’s not discuss that). My brother paid for his own by spending money on absolutely nothing else, and being lucky to have a rent free job with an employer who was also happy for him to take time out to learn (the horse world is a bit unusual in that regard). I don’t know what options are available to you, but it has to be your number one priority to find a route to class1. With all the noise the government are making, I’d hope there are more chances to do so now, but I don’t know. I only know people looking for class1 with plenty of experience, but then I only know smaller originally owner operator types. The bigger companies you’d hope would be getting some government help to train people… if would make sense, unless political noise isn’t translating into action.

As an aside, the new streamlined route to C+E really worries me for many other reasons.
– recognition abroad … are we creating a new class of drivers who won’t be seen as qualified in the EU? Does that mean we’ll still be reliant on EU workers for continental ferry work?
– road safety … the test isn’t really “easier”, but you can be in an artic on the road with far less experience, and that matters in real life
– insurance … well, insurers will recognise the above, and change their underwriting and rules accordingly

It would be nice to think HGV drivers will now be able to turn the industry around, and get paid a wage that recognises the challenges the job requires;

It’s not just the wages though, it’s the long and unsocial hours required. Until the whole warehousing and distribution side of the industry is fixed then drivers will have to continue turning up at the allocated time only to then be told to “park over there” for 3/4/5/6 hours waiting to be tipped/loaded. It makes getting up at 4am a waste of time and you end-up hitting the traffic again on the way home which further extends the day.

I passed my class 1 some 20 years ago and drove as an occasional driver helping out friends the odd trip when they had a driver off. I had not driven an HGV for a few years however I was recently asked to help out on an overnight trip down South.
A1 Newcastle closed roadworks diverted
J44 A1 closed roadworks again diverted adding a good bit of time onto the trip.
My planned stop for my driving break was now unachievable due to the diversions. Try finding a suitable and safe place to park a 44 ton truck for a break.
Arrived at my destination where I waited 4 hours to be unloaded before I could make my way home.
Not an easy way to earn a living!

Can you identify the many classic hallmarks of a returning banned user please?

Yes, I can.

that comment seems to me like an excuse for Kelvins continued Trolling of myself.

Use the “Report post” link if you see something that you think breaks the rules, and it will be reviewed by a site moderator. Inline whining is unlikely to change anything.

I’m afraid the government have devalued class2 by allowing it to be skipped on the way to class1.

Absolutely. It’s a proper kick in the balls after all of the effort I put into getting it too. The issue I’ve got is that if I get my Class 1 myself I will still end up hitting the blockage of being a new pass. I have applied for a training position with Aldi locally where they will take on Class 2 drivers, despite not having many trucks that size, and put you on a path to putting you through the training and test to get Class 1 and work for them. It does mean working in their warehouse for a while and signing a contract with minimum lengths to cover their training costs but it looks worth it.

Strange how it takes a German company to introduce a decent scheme for getting themselves out of the issue. Compare to the likes of Asda and Tesco who are just trying to poach drivers from elsewhere and you get the idea of which company is better to work for.

I get accused of “far right” views and I occasionally vote green. Consensus on the politics threads is definitely left of centre/ remain/ everyone who votes conservative is a neo racist xenophobic bigot etc

there is certainly a right of centre bias on here – Mind that beam in your eye

and I ain’t even a proper lefty!

Probably so they can save on training, poach staff that have been trained elsewhere.

Cougar
Full Member
Can you identify the many classic hallmarks of a returning banned user please?

Yes, I can.

that comment seems to me like an excuse for Kelvins continued Trolling of myself.

Use the “Report post” link if you see something that you think breaks the rules, and it will be reviewed by a site moderator. Inline whining is unlikely to change anything.

How very obvious a reply. I can also identify the many classic hallmarks of a Troll using a different account to justify their behaviour.

It must be said though; Kelvin appears to have dropped the Trolling for now so all is fine.

I have applied for a training position with Aldi locally where they will take on Class 2 drivers, despite not having many trucks that size, and put you on a path to putting you through the training and test to get Class 1 and work for them.

I was going to suggest supermarkets (or food distributors) because they have mixed fleets, and so are happy to progress people to class 1 while still driving C1 or C1+E for them for a time. Good luck! Apply to others as well though, as the warehouse stuff doesn’t sound ideal. The minimum contract to stop early poaching sounds fair enough though, if they’re paying for your path to class 1. Especially given the year ahead for them (and us).

I’ve done some agency work for 3 food distributors so far and all of them were horrific to work for with all the staff openly trying to get out of it! Lots of pressure to get everything done as fast as possible. Incredibly high turnover of staff at every one, one was paying me £19/hr for the first 12 weeks and even that wasn’t enough to out up with early starts, late leaving the depot, totally unrealistic scheduling, late finishes and very poor working conditions. Out of the 6 that started the same time as me I lasted the longest at 2 1/2 weeks.

If I haven’t found anything decent in a few weeks I’ll be seriously considering knocking the whole idea on it’s head, despite good reports on my time keeping, work ethic and attitude from where I have managed to get placements. No point beating myself up when it seems no-one wants to employ me.

That is depressing. I hope you find the right employer eventually. I refuse to give in to the idea there are none at all… even if there are many that are awful. Crossing everything for you.

@reluctantjumper – have you tried Jewsons if you have a yard near-ish to you? Even as an agency driver I found them very decent and they will (or at least did a couple of years ago) take on newly qualified drivers and they’ll put you through your hiab training.

Some yards are better than others but overall the permanent staff seemed happy and turnover was low. CCF and Go Interiors were both pretty decent to drive for as well and again took on newbies and offered Moffet training. Preferred Go to CCF but both seemed decent outfits.

You’d be surprised how you adapt to long hours behind the wheel. Not HGV but I spend most of my working day driving. At first it was very tiring but soon got a lot easier.

Doing high miles and long hours in a car is very very different to driving long hours in an HGV and as I’ve said in earlier posts HGV work isn’t just about the driving. It can be physically very demanding and concentrating on driving a huge lorry for hours on end is a different ballgame altogether to sat munching miles in a nice car.

One of my first placements was meant to be with Minster who are owned by Saint Gobain who also own Jewsons. Sadly the agency that I was with (and who has the local contract with Saint Gobain) cocked up the process so badly I doubt I could get in there again. They basically told me the placement had been postponed a few days due to the trainer being ill only for the depot I was meant to be at phoning me and asking where I was as they had had to sent the trainer away when I didn’t show up. Explained to them the information I’d been given by the agency and they accepted it but my name was most likely already marked as I couldn’t get back in. It was the first of a catalogue of errors that agency made that I’m sure has damaged my chances in the South Wales area. Had no issues when I was working round the Bristol area.

I would still give them a go Saint Gobain is a huge sprawling parent company and if you apply for Jewsons it may not even show up on their radar you had issues elsewhere. No harm in at least trying.

I feel your hatred of agencies though. If I had to go back into wagon driving I would not use one and would apply directly to the companies.

CCF have branches in Glouscester, Cardiff and Brizzle if any of them are local enough to you. Decent outfit…

Explained to them the information I’d been given by the agency and they accepted it but my name was most likely already marked as I couldn’t get back in.

It was the first of a catalogue of errors that agency made that I’m sure has damaged my chances in the South Wales area.

Christ that sucks. ☹️

Yep. They also sent me to a job in Bridgend 3 times, only once did I get any work out of it. The first time the company hadn’t requested anyoneso I was sent home. The second they had but had a different name on the paperwork. I was there 15 minutes early so they said if the guy they were expecting didn’t turn up I could have the shift, the other guy turned up with 1 minute to go. The third time they were expecting me so I got a shift done. The agency said I had work there the next day too but the company said they hadn’t requested anyone! They had my number so I told them to phone me if that changed, could be there in 30 mins. No call came and the agency denied saying what I had been told when I contacted them that morning. My contract with the agency also said I would be paid for 8 hours regardless if a shift was cancelled on the day or I worked less than 8 hours but they point-blank refused to pay me for the two days they sent me there in error. So for 3 days of getting up at 3am for a 5am start I only got £120 instead of the £312 I was due. I binned them after the 3 day fiasco as I’d already been sent to a company I had expressly said I didn’t want to work for, Palletways. Was given an address of a company in Barry. Went to the site office and asked for directions to the company only to be told they were the trading name of Palletways and I was booked for the shift. Did the shift anyway and it was horrible, exactly as I had been led to believe it would be.

There are plenty of other drivers with similar stories I’ve met over the last few months. It’s no wonder so many new drivers quickly leave if even some of them are treated like I have been. There are good agencies out there, I found one based in Bristol and got 10 weeks of good work from them but I couldn’t find any work that paid enough to either cover my commuting costs or moving closer to Bristol (rent is £300+ more a month for flats compared to my current place in Cardiff) and leave me any spare for savings etc. Transferred to their Cardiff office 2 weeks ago now and it’s back to crappy work and lots of promises with no results. I knew it would be tough to find a permanent place but with the shortages I thought it would be easier, if anything it’s harder as everyone is fighting over experienced drivers and ignoring the new passes.

Man, that’s tough. Those two agencies don’t deserve to be in business.

How long have you been at the driving? You may have said earlier, I hope you exceed whatever the mythical ‘new driver’ limit is soon so you get a more permanent and stable job.

Passed my Class 2 test at the end of May so just about to get to 5 months but I passed my C1 (7.5t) test 8 years ago so have plenty of experience with big vehicles and working to tacho rules. Nothing seems to count though until I pass the 1 year mark, even then lots of companies will still want to see driving history via my tacho records. What makes it even more annoying is that the bits of work I have managed to get have all given me good feedback, 4 out of the 7 companies I’ve done work for have asked for me back by name to the agency concerned. The feedback always praises my work ethic, timekeeping and attitude. I don’t know what else I can do really. I’m thinking of giving it my best for the rest of October and if I haven’t made any headway by then I’ll write it off and find a job elsewhere.

Good luck.

———————

Been looking into what Germany have been doing, as the driver shortage is just as severe there (obviously mitigated better than here due to, well, being in the EU).

– 70% of training costs born by federal government (train our own as a policy not soundbite)

– Programmes to try and get more women drivers, and recruiting from other groups not well represented in driving

After a few years of that not solving the problem they have had to move to making it easier for non-EU drivers to work in Germany. Is that where we will be in a few years time? Or will the government just be barking at companies that they should do more?

I have no idea if this has been mentioned elsewhere :

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/06/tesco-profits-double-as-shelves-stay-stocked-despite-supply-chain-problems

I had been wondering why I had seen so many freight trains in the last week or so.

If this is the result of HGV driver shortages, ie freight moving by rail rather than by road, then it is the best UK news that I have heard in a long time.

Tesco have always moved stock by rail to their distribution centres, they build them close to main lines for this exact reason. What they have been able to do is book more trains quickly and keep things moving due to their system already being set up to use rail, I don’t think any other supermarket does. The issue Tesco will have is keeping the supply going when rail travel returns to near the previous levels as freight moves a lot slower than passenger services. Hopefully the advent of more working from home will mean the current extra capacity for freight will stay as it is indeed more efficient over long distances for bulk movements than HGV’s. You still need the trucks for the final part though so it won’t cure the shortage.

The issue Tesco will have is keeping the supply going when rail travel returns to near the previous levels as freight moves a lot slower than passenger services.

I’m pretty sure (living near a railway line and having been on a cross country train trip this week) that rail travel is near previous levels at least in terms of number/frequency of services if not number of passengers on those services.

I’m pretty sure (living near a railway line and having been on a cross country train trip this week)

There are some pretty major redundancies planned due to a lack of faith in how much the passenger numbers will recover. How exactly that translates to number of services is unclear though, at least to me.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/13/uk-rail-firms-move-to-shed-thousands-of-jobs-amid-covid-cost-cuts