Helvellyn and High Street IAD – How far is it?

I’m up in Pooley Bridge at the weekend and toying with the idea of either a quick dash up High Street in the morning or a full day epic round High Street and Helvellyn. Does anyone happen to know how far that is and any recommendations of a route?
I was thinking of heading southish along the Dodds etc up Helvellyn and then down the zigzags, across to High Street, push up the steep bit then north down the High Street ridge to Pooley Bridge. I could do the route in reverse but seem to recall the zig zags is too steep to ride up whereas the Dodds ridge is quite a nice cycle up.

cheers

That’s a pretty big day out. Definitely go anti-clockwise.

Best way onto the Dodds is from the Dockray end of the Old Coach Road, up the Bruts Moss bridleway to Great Dodd. Can be quite boggy but should have dried out a bit after the last few weeks.

From there its mostly rideable southwards with a short push up Raise and another onto Low Man.

Down the Keppel Cove zigzags is quick but a bit dull. Sticks Pass to the mines is better value if you don’t mind backtracking over Raise as well as Whiteside.

Up the landrover track to Hayeswater is rideable then its a push up to the Knott. On the way back north from High Street watch for the path up to Rampsgill Head on the right just after the wall crossing. If it’s low vis then be careful with navigation around there, it’s embarrassingly easy to carry straight on east and down the spur off Kidsty Pike instead of bearing left / northwards towards High Raise.

At the end of the ridge it’s tempting to go straight up and over Loadpot hill but the bridleway traversing round the lhs as marked is actually better value.

Have fun!

excellent info, cheers

any idea on distance?
How many CYB Beasts would it equate to?
Or Llandegla blacks?

Or Llandegla blacks?

about 20. Its a BIG day out is that.

It’s prolly 60km or thereabouts with a couple of thousand metres ascent. Hard to compare in trail centre terms. Personally I’d expect to be out for 8-9 hours at least and I’ve done a fair bit in the Lakes.

But you’ve always got the option to bail back on the road from Glenridding. I’d head out over the Helvellyn half first and then just see how you get on.

The classic High Street route is pretty big and you’ll be goosed by the end of it. This is a summary a pal wrote of the trip:

“MTB HIGH STREET FROM BROTHERS WATER

The route starts from the free carpark at Brothers Water and rises an unrelenting 2000 feet to High Street, for a busy mornings work, with a lot of walking, and some carrying of the bike. On a good day rewarding views await! Optionally an excursion to the viewpoint adds some more height but is worth it for a commanding lunch stop and spectacular photo opportunity. Retracing back to the “hole in the wall” the route takes us eventually to LoadPot Hill, and a potentially soggy peaty traverse of the uplands with a descent towards Pooley Bridge before turning back for a proper descent towards Howtown through bracken pastures and many water splashes. From Howtown a climb to Martindale and descent on tarmac leads to a protracted Ullswater side track, with many craggy sections and challenging paved steps many also need to be carried. Finally a possible cafe stop at the campsite at Rooking is much needed before a link track leads back to the road and cars.
Route Distance 26 miles Total height gain a whopping 5940 ft.”

I did that over two days when I was younger and fitter. Big day out as others have said

The High Street circuit is a cracking route, I can send you the full notes, pictures and description if you PM me with your email address. It is a tiring day out especially if you ride a heavy FS bike thanks to all the climbing. You’d be better off with a light XC hardtail or even full rigid as I did because the rideable bits are not rocky. I certainly wouldn’t add in another big mountain; as I’ve grown older I’ve realised I’m interested in quality rides rather than long exhausting epics that leave me shattered.

http://www.bikehike.co.uk

Put the route in and it calculates distance/height climbed.

I once rode from Ambleside up over High Street, Loadpot hills etc and down to Pooley Bridge. Then up over the Dodds, Helvelyn down to the tarn. Hang a right drop down Little Tongue and back to Ambleside.
50 miles 90% ish off road.

It felt like a BIG day to me! 😉

Sounds like you’re planning on putting a lot of miles in and a lot of ascent, yet missing out all the best bits of two otherwise good rides, neither of which would be a “quick dash”.

If you do Helvellyn via the Dodds, the best bit is the descent of Dollywaggon and Grisedale.
If you do a Highstreet loop, the best bit is the Ullswater lakeside track.
You’ll miss out both on the loop you suggest.

Slightly worried that you may have underestimated the effort/time if you’re calibrating in terms of “how many ‘deglas?”

Slightly worried that you may have underestimated the effort/time if you’re calibrating in terms of “how many ‘deglas?”

THIS

High Street will be about as dry as it’s going to get at the moment I imagine. It will still be a bog on top though. My most disappointing MTB ride ever I think.

I went Keswick, Sticks, hayeswater, high st and back over the coach road recently and it was 6 hours. Probably longer, but a bit less climbing. I’d say similar time needed.

Did Hellvelyn 2 weeks ago.

We started in Glenridding and went up via the old coach road, however the route following on from this section was very boggy and made the ascent up towards Dodds very slow and energy sapping. In fact the majority of the climb was boggy which startled me a bit given the gradient.

Make no mistake though, the descent down Sticks Pass was worth every minute of the tough ride up, I certainly wouldn’t want to do that descent on a rigid though.

As suggested it’s a massive day is that route.

From Pooley, head east up onto moor Divock, descend to lake shore, how town, hayeswater, Thornthwaite Beacon, then back over High St to Pooley.
Doesn’t go up Helvellyn, but gives better riding (especially if you go cheeky footpath past Angle Tarn to Boredale Hause and then over Beda Fell ridge to east to descend to Martindale.

Take the advice above above, particulalry as it sounds like you’ll be on your own and don’t know the area. Thems big hills.

The Dodds were very boggy about 4 weeks ago, they hadn’t dried out at all but with the last few weeks of dry weather they should be nice and ‘crisp’ (you’ll under stand when you ride over the moss).

The whole route across the Dodds and down the Dollywagon back to Glenridding is not a long one (23.6k), and there are only a couple of hike-a-bike sections on route to the summit (depending on how much like riding steep climbs). But don’t under estimate the decent. The Dolly Wagon is hard technical riding (but still one of the best in the Lakes) and if that’s not your thing you won’t enjoy it. Under 3hrs if you keep going none stop but if it’s your first time you’ll be wanting photo stops and you’ll need to navigate, rest and assess, so I’d allow yourself at least 4hrs.

If you’re only going one way to Pooley Bridge it won’t be too bad but the full High Street loop is about 38k and you’d need between 4 and 5hrs to complete it. Depending on your route you could end up with the massively draining Hike-a-Bike up from Haweswater Reservoir.

If you’re not used to Lakes riding but you think you want more than just Helvelyn then you could push (or ride) up the BW from Dubhow to Boredale Hause then do the technical BW back down to Patterdale or, you could push up to Boredale Hause from Dubhow then head over Bedafell and do the Martindale Common descent before looping back round along the edge of Ullswater via Sandwick and back to Patterdale.

Enjoy.

I find Dolly wagon to be a bit of a pig of a downhill much prefer going up Dollywagon and down sticks pass which has had some work done on it to make it even more rideable for a xc mincer like me.High St is super dry at the minute 🙂 lakeshore is a nightmare at the weekend I would avoid!

f you’re not used to Lakes riding but you think you want more than just Helvelyn then you could push (or ride) up the BW from Dubhow to Boredale Hause then do the technical BW back down to Patterdale or, you could push up to Boredale Hause from Dubhow then head over Bedafell and do the Martindale Common descent before looping back round along the edge of Ullswater via Sandwick and back to Patterdale.

What’s the bridleway like from Boredale Head up to Boredale Hause? Am thinking along the lines of: Dubhow – Boredale Hause – Beda Fell – Martindale – Boredale head – Boredale Hause – Rooking – back to start.

What’s the bridleway like from Boredale Head up to Boredale Hause?

Doubletrack up the side of the valley, rideable except the last couple of hundred yards at the top where it gets too steep and rocky.

Worth it as an alternative to battling the hordes on the lakeside path back from Sandwick?

A group of us did High Street in 2010, definitely don’t under estimate what you are taking on. We went from Pooley Bridge down the eastern side of Ullswater by going up to High Street then hanging a right (at the Cockpit) and following the bridleway to Martindale. From there we followed the edge of lake past Rooking and Bridgend to Hartsop. All of this section was great fun fast and relatively flat, all the fun stopped after we had climbed up to Hayeswater. From there you put your bike on your back and yomp up the top (the Knott) with a few false horizons! The views at the top are amazing and you will have plenty of time to take them in while you get your breath back. High Street itself isn’t a great biking track (in my opinion) but you do get great views. Hang a left at Loadpot Hill and from there it’s the best bit of the track and mostly downhill back to Pooley bridge. That ride was 25 miles and over 5000ft of climbing, what you’re doing is obviously a lot longer and harder. I took a 3L camelback and a 1L bottle, it was hot June day. and we had all used all our fluids not long after going past Loadpot Hill. I have never been so thirsty in my life or so glad to get to Pooley Bridge. Once you are on High Street there is no backing out and taking a short cut to a local corner shop. We should have replenished our supplies before leaving Hartsop. Hopefully this is of some help in deciding on your route.

Unless you’re supersuperfit or really want to give yourself a beasting, forget it – I can only imagine it’d be too energy sapping to be enjoyable.

Do one or the other – they’re still a big challenge in themselves.

Worth it as an alternative to battling the hordes on the lakeside path back from Sandwick?

Absolutely, northwards off Boredale hause is a good techy descent and you can carry on the high level path to drop in behind Silver crag (steep and rocky) then double back the last wide/easy bit of the shore path.

Awesome input, cheers all.

the best bit is the descent of Dollywaggon and Grisedale.

I must admit that I didn’t like the Dollywaggon decent when I did it. We ended up walking a fair chunk of it. It was about 15 years ago so maybe it/me has got better since.

If you do a Highstreet loop, the best bit is the Ullswater lakeside track.

Thanks for the input, I was wondering what the lakeside track was like. Looks good for some other time.

Slightly worried that you may have underestimated the effort/time if you’re calibrating in terms of “how many ‘deglas?”

Fair comment. I just figured that miles or km are a fairly meaningless measure of mountain bike routes in general and probably this one in particular. Is the answer 4? I’m guessing it’s between 4 and 5, but not quite so mind numbingly dull.

Take the advice above above, particulalry as it sounds like you’ll be on your own and don’t know the area. Thems big hills.

ermph. Yep on my own. But have done both those hills by bike before. Helvellyn twice. Last time we did Helvellyn we were sat at the summit shelter with the bikes the other side of the wall. Two blokes came clattering past fully tooled up having done one of the grade 2 gullies above Red Tarn. They were discussing whether they’d need their crampons for the decent or not. 😳 It was perfect weather for the Dodds route, very little snow but cold enough for the peat to be completely frozen solid. Same conditions when I did High Street actually.

High St is super dry at the minute

zigackly

Depending on your route you could end up with the massively draining Hike-a-Bike up from Haweswater Reservoir.

Hayeswater? Yes, that looks like the logical route if I do the full loop via GlenRidding. I’ll be tired from all that cycling anyway so it’ll be good to get off the bike, stretch the legs and relax a bit.

So, who’s going to join me?

Fair comment. I just figured that miles or km are a fairly meaningless measure of mountain bike routes in general and probably this one in particular. Is the answer 4?

😯
are you sure you are getting just how big this is ?

It is not 4 deglas and i am worried you think it is

Dont under estimate dolly wagon its not a nice flowey single tack its very steep stone pitching with tight switch backs. The tight switch backs have drainage bars across them. I rode it all but struggled with the brake really hard while lifting the front wheel arse over the back seat technique!

Not my vid but max formerly of KMB.

Skip to about 1 min in…………

I was happy to get down that alive tbh. I hate steps I am never doing that descent again. that video makes it look so much easier and less steep than it really is.

Dont under estimate dolly wagon its not a nice flowey single tack its very steep stone pitching with tight switch backs.

It is not 4 deglas and i am worried you think it is

But steep stone pitching tight switch backs etc is pretty much exactly how Llandegla black is described on the signpost at the top of the swoopy decent. So it can’t be much different to that can it.

And the Llandegla black also says it visits remote terrain etc and mustn’t be underestimated.

How hard can it be?

IMHO dollywaggon pike is about 20 x harder than any “rocky” black at degla – the “rocks”* there are barely rocks and it has been purpose built to ride it safely on a bike it is not even remotely comparable. I would ride degla rigid on my kids 20 ” bike and I am never doing dollywaggon again.

*TBH I cannot even remember anything rocky at degla there is one pretend bit as the path splits iirc.
IMHO about 1 in a thousand riders on here would clear dollywaggon and about 1 in a 1000 would fail to clean degla black
Its like comparing the canal to degla its is that big a step up
As for the distance same thing it is a massive day out. I can ride 100 miles on the road and that ride is too big for me.

TBH I am not sure if you are being serious here or trolling.

then add in water bars that trap your wheel and then add in switch backs.

here is their description of it – no idea who it is from the internet

According to our route guide ( followed from a link on the website) This descent is 98 % rideable .
Well I would say it is !! if you wish to end up in casualty . The water troughs every 20 meters were wheel swallowing wide and some nearly knee deep what with no easy escape route once commited you had 810 meters of full on rock garden steps to complete. We saw sense and walked

are you sure you are getting just how big this is ?
It is not 4 deglas and i am worried you think it is

This.

TBH I am not sure if you are being serious here or trolling.

Yes the last post was a troll. I’ve already clearly stated in the posts above that I have been down Dollywaggon, didn’t like it and won’t be doing it as part of this route. So it’s completely irrelevant to the conversation. But for some reason people keep bringing up how gnarrcore it is and how it’s much more difficult that degla and that I shouldn’t include it as a single rider on a big loop.

I AGREE
I GET IT, I HAVE RIDDEN DOLLYWAGGON, I DIDN’T LIKE IT, I’M NOT GOING THAT WAY TOMORROW.

and the bit about ‘degla black route signs is a complete piss take. They really annoy me every time I see them. Stupid pointless and just plain wrong. I look forward to the day when someone sues ‘degla for posting inaccurate information about the gnarrliness of their tracks causing them to take on something too hard somewhere else and finding out that there’s black and there’s black.

Anyway, I digress.

Thanks you again for your input. And once again:

I’m not going down Dollywaggon tomorrow as it’s too steep, too dangerous and not the type of thing I like riding, especially when I’ve got lot of miles to do and I’m on my own.

cheers

Enjoy your BIG ride

Doing Nan Bield and Kentmere myself but Sunday

Enjoy and happy trails

My first ride in this area was the one place where I’ve badly misjudged a ride. Us in Sandwick, car in Hartsop, and limited February daylight rapidly running out (if you look at a map, you’ll see why this is a bad situation). We got halfway along the lake shore bridleway before light completely ran out. By luck, my OH had a not-very-bright head torch with her, and we managed to walk the rest of the way, although it was a struggle to follow the path. I’m still not quite sure what we’d have done if we hadn’t had the torch with us, as you really could see nothing without it.

Things I learnt: the run along the top of High St can be *really* slow, look a bit more carefully at your bail-out options before committing to a route, and always carry a torch.

June is a much better time for a big day out – have a great ride 🙂

Hmm,that went well. 😛
Think I slightly overestimated.
Boxelder was pretty much spot on.

These bridleways do have a lot of walking on them, especially when you’re knackered. In the end I was pushing up anything that was steeper than about 1 in 10.

There are certain people from certain areas that I always take what they say as gospel. Boxelder, tomaso, d45yth etc when I’m looking at Lakeland rides for sure. And over the years, I’ve learned never to underestimate Lakeland/highland miles.

What’d you do?

I failed to persuade the missus to drive me up to Dockray so had to start off with 10 miles along the lakeside road and then up to the 412m mark at High Row. The bridleway from there up the Dodds is very faint, and must normally be absolute hell on a bike, but as mentioned above it was bone dry and very rideable. Even bone dry it is still quite springy so I reckon it is actually easier when frozen solid (maybe next time).
Pushed a couple of sections up and got to the summit around 11:15, so 2.5 hours from Pooley Bridge, which I was well pleased with. Shared some cookies and a long chat on the summit with a couple of guys who were about to Head down Dollywaggon. I think I might have spooked them slightly when I shared the STW consensus that it is way hard.
Back over a couple of bumps and then down the zig zags near Keppel Cove to the mines where I met a few more people coming up.
Lunch in Glenriding then along the road to Hartsop and then up to Hayeswater. Played leapfrog with a couple of ramblers up the carry to The Knott, which was good to keep the speed up, then south to High Street. Saw a trio of bikers coming the other way who studiously ignored me for some reason, maybe because I didn’t have a full face helmet.
Then north then east and north again along the ridge. Met the same trio since they’d got lost and then I bimbled on down the ridge to the north.
By this point I was pretty goosed and pushing up anything significant, and also keen for more food. But then I realised what time it was and started to wonder if I could make sub 6, so I really went for it. The track is generally all downhill or flat with a few minor ups and almost completely grass/bog. Had an excellent time trying to make up as much time as possible and going down a lot faster than I normally would.
But that ridge is actually quite long so took a fair time to get along. I got a bit lost at the Cockpit and eventually plumped for the direct line along a cheeky by the stream, which led into the huge campsite by the lake. Back to the road in 6 hours and 15 minutes. So nowhere near the 6 hour mark really but it did spur me on to go faster on the downhill which was excellent fun.
Quick refuel then spend a pleasant afternoon canoeing in the lake with the kids.

I went Keswick, Sticks, hayeswater, high st and back over the coach road recently and it was 6 hours. Probably longer, but a bit less climbing. I’d say similar time needed.

So, Boxelder wins the prize for best estimate of ride time. I guess you could get it below 6 hours by eschewing the café for lunch. But the best way to improve the route would be to get a shuttle to the start of the Dodds bridleway at Dockray. That would probably shave almost an hour off it and make it a feasible option in winter when it’s nicely frozen but the days are shorter. (normal caveats and disclaimers about winter conditions apply).

So if you fancy doing both hills in the one day then I’d recommend that route, but only if it is bone dry or frozen. But be aware that it’s more of a walk/ride/walk sufferfest than a nice technical MTB trail. There’s much better technical trails to be done elsewhere. (or go down Dollywaggon :D)

So I ‘d say 4 ‘deglas is pretty much spot on, from an distance point of view. But as the chaps above pointed out, much more walking and much more potential for things to go fully awry .

Ok just put a slightly different spin on what can be done myself and a mate of mine did the park in Glenridding thing yesterday and rode along the the Tarmac to Hartsop the rode pushed carried up to the Knott. Slight switchback was employed to take us back down through to Angle tarn Pikes, Boredale, Side Farm and a quick #transition #isthisenduro across the valley. Filled up on cake at the Ullswater show and then along Grisdale. Death march up Dollywagon ( just an exercise in can it be done rather than fun going down so you might as well slog your way up it) Across Hellvelin taking in White Side, Raise and down Sticks (awesome ) and back to the car 5hours all done back home in the shower by 1.30pm managing not to use up any points and had top afternoon with the kids everyone’s a winner. 😀