Heavy touring

Just curious about experiences with heavily loaded touring bikes, such as the Thorn Nomad with front & rear panniers, bar bags, rack top bags etc.  Most longer rides I’ve done have been in the audax spirit where you pedal as fast as you can until you drop, then pedal a bit more  I’ve also camped with a bivy bag, and all my belongings in a saddlebag.  When I have loaded a bike with heavy rear panniers, it’s felt a bit ponderous, if not extremely bendy and downright dangerous, not to mention hard work.  However, you do see lots of people riding Thorn Nomads and the like, and they often seem relaxed and having a great time.  Are they just strong riders?  Apparently, the Thorns have been tested carrying loads of up to 60Kg!  I’m not sure what I’d pack that would weigh that much, but presumably you could carry a large tent, camp bed and all home comforts…

We get all sorts on the John O’Groats run. Some travel on lightweight carbon race bikes and a tiny saddle pack. Others go the whole hog and seem to have all their possessions with them. I’ve seen folk with 4 panniers AND a trailer. I guess they just travel at a more sedate pace and take a whole lot longer.

It was noticable in the Western Isles last year that most cyclists seemed to be in the heavily-laden category. I’m sure they returned home with amazing memories but they all seemed miserable whilst actually pedalling.

If the bikes feeling bendy then your either standing up (and don’t have enough gears) or packed incredibly unbalances  for example a pair of heavy panniers alone on the rear.

It’s a different pace of life sure, but you come back strong like ox.

I enjoy it.

Met a guy in NZ when we were touring . Dutch fella had 200kg between the 4 panniers and trailer   did about 25 miles a day and had got there from Holland under his own steam. Had lots of story’s to tell.

My touring set up is just like that, albeit on an One-One Pometamine running 3×9. got a 11-36 on the back and a 24/39/53 on the front – Massive range of gears.

The bike loaded with double front panniers – one for large, 3 person tent, other for cooking. Double rear panniers – one for double duvet & bedding and one for clothes. Also run a Carradice for day to day food, coffee etc.

Fully loaded the bike is as stable as you can imagine – will cruise all day long at 20-25km/h and be like sat on a sofa.

Set up like that will do my partner & I do two week tours in France with ease and in great comfort.

Fast it is not, but touring in France is more about long lunches and 3pm wine…

We’ve camp toured with our 2 children since the 1st was 6 months old (and the 2nd was 6 months old). Using combinations of trailer, trailer and child seat, trailer + follow me, follow me, and a adventure race style tow system. We’ve had some heavy loads for sure. But it’s been a hoot (and a wee bit stressful at times). Perosnally 32:18 for me on 700x42c! But yes we keep to the flat. Denmark twice. Holland. French Atlantic coast, Austrian/ Italian border to Verona and back,

IME panniers wreck the handling and increase wind resistance.  Weight is irrelevant until you start climbing hills.  ON the flat it can be to your advantage ( use the momentum)

Personally I prefer a trailer even tho there is a weight penalty simply because of the less wind resistance and better handling

many years ago Mrs Stoner and I toured 3,000 miles around Spain & France.

Camping, singlespeeds, saddle bags and bar bags only.

We met a German couple at the top of a col one day, they heaved over the crest on huge german touring bikes with low riders, paniers, bar bags etc. They were away for 2 weeks.

Our total kit was about 25L each and we were away for 3 months.

http://pompinos.blogspot.co.uk/

Try fully loaded touring on a tandem and then get back to us on what a heavy bike with front and rear panniers feels like 🙂 Jandd used to make monster panniers which we find very useful. Think they are 110l the pair. We did our fastest ever 25 mile TT a week after coming back from a 3 week camping tour.

Actually one point worth mentioning – make sure your racks are rigid and up to the job, even if your frame is solid a bendy rack will make everything feel wobbly Tubus is a good choice.

It’s a balancing act (sic) between taking very little and being comfortable. I’ve toured in Scotland in a wet summer with panniers and it’s not bad when you are actually riding but starting/stopping and getting on/off the bike is quite tricky as if you lean the bike ever so slightly too much to get on/off then the tyres have no grip and the bike flies to one side! I’ve also credit card toured on the same bike using just a Carradice SQR saddlebag – much easier 🙂

The captain – we put us and out tandem on the weighbridge at Oban – approaching 1/4 tonne!  That includes comfy camping kit for 2 for 2 weeks

Our total kit was about 25L each and we were away for 3 months.

Impressive!! 🙂

Agree that it is a fine balance between travelling light and living well. Personally I’d not want to go too light as my tours often have a purpose off the bike. It’s as much about the destinations as it is the A to Bs. I want kit to go mountain walking or open water swimming or reasonable photography or painting kit.

Touring bikes just can’t have too low a bottom gear – when it comes to selecting gearing being a hero rarely works out well. I’m currently putting together a new flat bar tourer out of a shed full of very tasty components I already own  – I’m taking the brazing torch to a Niner Sir 9 to add pannier bosses and building up a Roholoff drive train. 11th gear (out of 14) on a Roholoff needs to be your ideal gear as it is direct drive and most efficient – I’m speccing this bad boy to hit 11th at a mightly 11mph. That means bottom gear will be stupid low and I’ll spin out in top at about 17mph which will be plenty.

And if you think a panniered bike is entertaining try riding (racing) a tandem with a blind person who was blind before they got to ride a solo bike. We eventually got it sorted to the point we could climb short rises out of the saddle in unison but twisting courses were pretty dicey for the first month or two.

if not extremely bendy

I’ve found some bikes bendier than others. I had a Dawes Galaxy which was a great, solid platform to tour on. I sold it because I wasn’t using it enough and currently use a Surly Troll, which flexes a lot if I pedal out of the saddle. As above, staying in the saddle helps a lot!! 🙂

Wallet/camera/cap etc in the bar bag, everything in or on top of the rear panniers.

Easy to carry if you lock your bike up and abit of extra space is useful for shopping.

Never used four panniers as I’ve never needed to carry that much stuff.

Ultra light is fine, until you run out of dry clothes halfway through a wet fornight or fancy picking up a few bottles of wine etc.

BITD today’s ultralight camping stuff just wasn’t available. Even today much of it is a bit pricey. And I’d rather have a tent that’s a bit too big and sturdy rather than one that’s a bit too small.

Got a ten day camping trip planned on the tandem in may – opted for taking the Dawes discovery instead of old Mercian for reasons of flex as expect to be pretty loaded up. BITD I managed 4500miles in 10 weeks on a dawes galaxy with front and rear panniers plus bar bag and saddle bag mostly constructed of heavy cotton duck. By the end of the tour we managed over 3000m of ascent in one day. Can’t remember what cassette I had (5sp mega range jobbie) but smallest front ring was 42 and only walked on one col – it was snow bound at the time. My brother walked some of the ascents but he had a 3sp sturmey archer hub gear – as they say anything is possible 🙂

I don’t know about the Thorn Nomad but I did a tour in Scotland last year on my Tour de Fer with 4 panniers and a bar bag. Could barely lift the bike up but it was fine once rolling. A 22×32 bottom gear meant that I got up everything too 🙂

I have heavy toured only a bit over a week. Camping gear for two with up to 2 days food at a time, comfort for my partner. Bike is a old steel MTB with long chainstays. Handles brilliant. Sturdy rear rack. Platform front rack but panniers mount ed as far to the rear as possible. Rode fine on the flat, best down hill though on the uphill but doable. Worst hills I walked but I didn’t mind as I was on holiday.

Touring bikes just can’t have too low a bottom gear

This it depends n so many things most i took was when i was taking everything for me and the two kids. That was heavy. Its not as nice as lighter – though in reality I had no more of my own stuff than usual so gained no comfort from the weight- when pedalling, especially up hill,  but touring is rarely about speed between two points and definitely is not with two young kids.

Lots of good advice above. The only thing I would add is be realistic about how far you want to travel each day carrying a full load.

“Fully loaded the bike is as stable as you can imagine – will cruise all day long at 20-25km/h ”  is in my experience not realistic unless you are a super strong rider. Personally, I would halve that expectation fully loaded (unless you’re touring Holland with the wind behind you)!

It’s a personal thing but I found trying to ride off-pavement stuff with two panniers swinging around made cycling a real chore. Likewise going from the panniers to a ‘bikepacking’ setup made a big difference to doing hikeabikes or singletrack (obviously). It depends though – if you want to carry around a load of shit like a folding chair and a laptop be my guest; but personally I’d rather go as light as possible and blast down singletrack etc. Below is my setup for a 3.5 month odyssey from Canada to Mexico including full camping setup, cook system and 4 season bag + clothes.

I’ve toured many times on several different bikes. In my exexperience a comfy frame unloaded does not make a good touring bike when fully loaded, they flex too much. I now have a Surly long haul trucker, unloaded it feels harsh and stiff, but put some panniers on it and it is really comfy, the heavier the load the better it feels.

I am not exactly someone who packs light. So even for short trips I will have 4 panniers, a bar bag and tent on top of rear rack. To some  people this may feel over the top. But I find that carrying extra kit and the weight penalty is more than worth it.

Once loaded i find that adding an extra 5 to 10kg of extra kit isn’t that much more noticeable even up big steep climbs.

I can second the Trucker comments.

It handles just as well loaded with camping gear.

The frame itself isn’t that heavy and it’s as fast as anything on the flat. Hills? Enjoy the view. I’ve got a 24/36 low gear and it’s just enough at times.

Love the  possibilities of bikepacking gear.

But for what we do,  I  like the versatility of panniers, barbags and a rucksack/drybag on a  rack.  I can just sling them, and the bar bag, over my shoulder and stash them behind a local bar or keep them with me.

It’s not necessarily the weight, it’s the space and convenience as well – perfect for shopping and carting stuff to the tip etc….

If we did anything more tech than a bridleway, beach or the odd bit of singletrack, ditching the rack and panniers would be a perfect.

I think that weight all depends on your mindset. If you wanna go fast n lofty then lights your friend, if you want comfort & “stuff” then weights gonna be the way forward. You can gear the bike for all inclines.

We had this French family stay with us in the UK last summer, they were headed to Morocco. We got a postcard from them when they arrived there.

They just rode short distances, camped a lot, played a lot. Worked well for them.

2017-09-11_02-18-23 by martinddd[/url], on Flickr

A mate has a Surly Big Dummy. I’ve ridden it loaded, and it’s brilliant.

If I was going touring again, I’d get one.

stoner

…many years ago Mrs Stoner and I toured 3,000 miles around Spain & France….

I was out on my Pompino yesterday and was trying to remember where your blog was. Ta 🙂

Pompinos must be one of the most under rated bikes around.

Ive done a two day camping trip on my charge filter, front and rear racks, panniers front and rear.

It felt pretty flexy, ok once up to 10mph or so, but anything approaching Singletrack would have been pretty sketchy tbh.

For my next trip, i used the smaller panniers on the rear, with just my sleeping bagand 2litres of water on the front rack, it was better.

For my last trip, i used the same setup but on a surly karate monkey, much much better.

Im currently waiting on my alpkit frame bag to try that on the surly and see how it goes.

But i would  broadly agree, a bike that feels nice and springy unloaded probably wont be that good fully loaded. Also, pay attention to the setup of your racks, stiffer is better. And keep the heavy stuff as low, and far inboard as possible.

And gears, go as low as possible, unless you’re in holland of course.

My base weight with 4 panniers and no bar bag is around 15kg including the panniers. This is for 2 or 3 month tours.  I’ve also had my Long Haul Trucker carrying over 30kg and the handling was still fine.  That was with 14.5L of fluids on board for a 170 mile 2 day ride with no  guaranteed water sources.

All fluids either in the panniers or in frame bottles.

I’am a bit a fan of a good (single wheel) trailer in combination with a very small (day-)backpack…

Hardest “bike work” I remember: mountain bike and all stuff in and way too heavy backpack and technical trails… Thought all the time: hell – would it be nice without this heavy crap… But back at home, no backpack: …was I FAST.

Friend of mine (he has the big money): he and a friend go every year on a race road bike Europe tour. Nearly NO luggage – only GPS and cash card / credit card… They stay in the nicest hotels and turn into machines while touring. It’s simply amazing how quick you are able to cross Europe on a race bike without luggage. These guys are happy before they go, while they bike and they are in amazing shape when they are back home.

Above post, the french family, going slow: yes. Fun as well.

For me: limited luggage, very small backpack & trailer. But enjoy the short trips only with “small day-backpack” most…