[Closed] Heavy handed Rozzers?

Will he buy some lights for his bike now? If so, job done.

Don't the Rozzers (for whom I have enormous respect, he added hastily) have bigger fish to fry on a Saturday night near Gloucester?

Ah, the old "shouldn't you be out catching real criminals?" defence.

Not defending him at all. He's an idiot.

I was threatened with arrest for cycling on a shared use path once. 😯

Was he in the wrong?
It appears so.
He took a chance and got caught, he could always have walked.

Appreciate that, but surely 99 out of 100 traffic cops would've passed him by?

If they were heavy handed they would have breathalised him. Probably got away with it tbh. They would have been in a bad mood because it was saturday night. unlucky/lucky at the same time.

And if he had caused an accident or been seriously injured after being passed by the police, what would you then post? "surely they should have stopped him"? Its as much for his benefit and every ones protection dont blame them for doing their job.

Now, are you absolutely sure he didn't get a bit lippy with the officers when they 'berated' him?

Can he get a caution at the roadside? I thought you needed to be taken down the nick to sign various stuff and get a further lecture?

They might of passed him by, but fortunately the 1% did their job and hopefully, lesson learned.

Can they give cautions at the road side? When my mate (lol) got one it was in a real police station and everything - given by some guy with lots of pips on his uniform. Quite some time ago mind.

On the above - win some lose some, you never know the copper may have saved his life. Just because he was on the pavement when he stopped him, doesn't mean he won't be using the roads does it? How's the copper to know? Better safe than sorry imo.

you never know the copper may have saved his life.

True dat.

I live in an area of the country where cycling with lights seems to be in vogue.
That said - it's on the road.
I imagine when on of these road ninjas gets taken out , it will be the car driver under the cosh. The sooner there is some personal responsibility by the cyclists, the better

He was riding on the pavement because he didn't have lights....
If you can't do the time etc ....

No doubt that he was in the wrong ..............but what should be asked here is, was the police action "reasonable"?
In the crcumstances, I'd say a good bollocking would have sufficed -

It was 11pm at night. Light traffic and no pedestrians.He was riding on the pavement

A caution [i]and[/i] a fixed penalty notice is pretty heavy handed/quota filling, IMHO.

Where is the heavy handed bit?

I bet he didn't get a caution at all. Commonly mis-used phrase. More like FPN and words of advice.

Transfer that copper to the met. He could do some real good there.
I didn't think they could breathalyse hime any way?

you cannot be breathalysed for it

If the evidence of the extent to which a person is affected must be measured by means other than the provision of a specimen of breath, blood or urine, as there is no power to require such a specimen in these circumstances. However, [b]if such a specimen was offered[/b], it is probable that the evidence obtained by analysis of the specimen would be admissible.

People of the Rozztafarian persuasion believe it is their calling in life to uphold the laws as laid out in accordance with the law making procedures in that land..

Occasionally this results in a bell end receiving a bollocking for not having lights on his bike.. Which is nice

What you don't know is that he bunny hopped off the curb into the road in front of the police car..then rushed home to tell you that the policeman had nicked him on the pavement...

Seems fair to me, I see all too many numptys cycling about without lights, on the pavement or otherwise. You can get a set from tesco for 8 quid.
Whats the reason for not having any? <<<< genuine question.
coz they don't look cool? is being dead cool?

Which is the more serious offence? no lights, or riding on the pavement?

Do you need lights to ride on the pavement?

Pfft. I was expecting some Birmingham Six style miscarriage of justice. This is rubbish!

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Ah, the old "shouldn't you be out catching real criminals?" defence.

Remember to add "I pay your wages don't you know" I'm always grateful to those who point this out to me.

Which is the more serious offence? no lights, or riding on the pavement?

Do you need lights to ride on the pavement?

Kinda my thinking. Both are wrong, but is one wronger than the other??

It appears they actually let him off with one offence and saved him going to court by issuing a fixed penalty notice. Still seem heavy handed?

Proportionality, innit?

A slightly pissed teen wobbling home on the pavement?

Ticketing someone like that just reinforces the us & them divide and dehumanises the police further in the eyes of the general population.

A bit of a lose/lose situation really.

A quiet bollocking and being made to push his bike the rest of the way would have been a win for both sides.

Bit pathetic really.

he was not cautioned for that as he would have had to go to the cop shop for this and I doubt that it is a cautionable offence anyway.

Rather they went after the kids with no brakes tbh but it was a daft thing to do.
Has he got lights yet then?

Sounds very OTT to me. Surely easier to give an earbashing and send chastised yoof on his way.

This, from a man who in his student days, went OTB [i]twice[/i] in front of the same police car, in the space of five minutes. I was only riding 'cos I was too drunk to push the thing.

Rather they went after the kids with no brakes tbh but it was a daft thing to do.

Why was it a daft thing to do?

He's riding on a pavement where there were no pedestrians.
He's got no lights and he's a bit tipsy - riding on the road would but himself and others in danger.

Rusty Spanner - Member
Proportionality, innit?

A slightly pissed teen wobbling home on the pavement?

Ticketing someone like that just reinforces the us & them divide and dehumanises the police further in the eyes of the general population.

A bit of a lose/lose situation really.

A quiet bollocking and being made to push his bike the rest of the way would have been a win for both sides.

Bit pathetic really.

+1

I thought the offence is riding on the road without lights? Surely if he is on the pavement the offence is riding on the pavement, in which case there supposed to use discretion when dealing with it.

RS so if i drive my car slowly its ok if i am pissed? 😉

He could have walked for example and cycling on the pavement if forbidden

FWIW I cycle on the pavement past the cop shop and ride down their steps over and over again with my kids
Never said anything though one of them once encouraged my youngest to get on with it when he was nervous

Last time I repeatedly fell off my (lightless) bike, in the road, in front of a police car, through being utterly drunk, they offered me a lift home after my fifth faceplant.. They even put my bike in the boot..

I only lived 20 yards further along the street too.. 😳

A few years ago I nearly hit a cyclist riding without lights, I was pulling out of a t junction and he was barreling along without lights on a unlit road. It scared the bejesus out of me.

If, as cyclists we want to be treated with respect on the roads, and we want the police to enforce offences against us, then we need to play by the same rules. Expecting different treatment because he was on a bike is not a good enough argument in my opinion.

On another note, anyone seen this clip of the cyclist laying down the law to a copper!

[url= http://tyneandwear.sky.com/news/article/83213/caught-on-camera-newcastle-cyclist-lays-down-the-law-to-policeman ]Cyclist 1 - 0 Police[/url]

I thought the offence is riding on the road without lights? Surely if he is on the pavement the offence is riding on the pavement,

The wording on the FPN said "not having the required lights fitted" (or words very close to that effect). No mention of riding on the pavement.

He's riding on a pavement where there were no pedestrians.
He's got no lights and he's a bit tipsy - riding on the road would but himself and others in danger.

Kinda. Think he had the good sense not to be in the road... but not the sense to walk home pushing the bike.

It quickly becomes clear it's not the telling off people are split over, it's the £50 fine.

£50 can be a lot of money to some people. I think £50 is heavy handed.

However the telling off is just.

You can lead a horse to water...

There are two sides to every story. The only times I've ever been dealt harshly by the police was when I was being a dick and deserved it... but I sweetened my side of the story when I told my parents about it at the time 😆

50 quids a lot but

he wont cycle without lights in the dark again
one day that may save his life

Junkyard - lazarus

RS so if i drive my car slowly its ok if i am pissed?

No, it's a car, not a bike. 🙂

He could have walked for example and cycling on the pavement if forbidden

riding on the pavement isn't actually wrong, read the Home Office guidance that goes with the introduction of FPNs. Riding like a **** is wrong and you should get fined, being cautious isn't so you should not be fined. Quite how you argue this i am not so sure!!

End of the month, gotta get the numbers in. 🙄

£50 can be a lot of money to some people.

He's doing an engineering apprenticeship. Paid peanuts. Lives at home with his dad.

There is a specific offence of riding on the pavement.

Do you need lights to ride on the pavement?

Yes, it's part of the highway.

Learned the hard way when my motor bike was ticketed for parking on the pavement in a double yellow area!

Wouldnt it have made more sense to give him a producer .As in turn up at the station with a set of lights and a receipt within a week or get fined ?

There is a specific offence of riding on the pavement.

I suggest you read the grey boxes on the attached link. Riding on the pavement is wrong BUT, you should only be fined if you are behaving in a manner likely to endanger others.

[url= http://road.cc/content/news/86534-spalding-police-crack-down-pavement-cycling-5am ]http://road.cc/content/news/86534-spalding-police-crack-down-pavement-cycling-5am[/url]

I'm not often a cheerleader for da fedz but in this case they've done your son a massive favour in my opinion. If that had been my son I'd be down that police station with a box of doughnuts to thank them for it.

I'm also glad that your son is poor and the fine will hurt - what's the point fining a millionaire £50? It won't give them a moment's pause to reflect on their behaviour.

On that discretion thing, I've noticed from my extensive viewing (blame the wife..) of those TV cop fly-on-the-wall things that the cops who come down hard and fine every offender for "minor" violations are often the ones the ones who get the unenviable task of knocking on family members' doors to break tragic news. Perhaps this cop has a thing for lightless cyclists that's driven by something you have the luxury of not knowing about.

Thanks for the suggestion. It is still a specific offence. Was he a "responsible cyclist who felt obliged to use the pavement due to fear of traffic"?

Also riding with no lights, whilst drunk is not responsible and could easily be argued as riding in a manner which may endanger someone.

Discretion is just that. "Guidance" on the application of law does not negate an officer's ability to exercise his or her legal powers.

Would the 'telling off' be enough of a deterrent to him that he would go out and buy lights on the back of it?

If it was me after a telling off I'd probably think 'yeah, got a telling off, but can risk that every 6 months to save me having to get some lights'.
But, if I got fined £50 I'd be thinking 'bollocks, got stung for £50. Better spend £20 on a set of lights so I don't have to spend another £50 next time i am caught'.....

Perhaps this traffic police bloke has seen the result of someone stuffed through a windscreen for not having lights on his bike?

Would the 'telling off' be enough of a deterrent to him that he would go out and buy lights on the back of it?
If it was me after a telling off I'd probably think 'yeah, got a telling off, but can risk that every 6 months to save me having to get some lights'.
But, if I got fined £50 I'd be thinking 'bollocks, got stung for £50. Better spend £20 on a set of lights so I don't have to spend another £50 next time i am caught'.....
Perhaps this traffic police bloke has seen the result of someone stuffed through a windscreen for not having lights on his bike?

If not for the fine I am sure what ever was said would have been in one ear and out the other.
And you probably would not have heard about his brush with the law.

If he's riding on the pavement, in the dark, under the influence and with no lights then he's a hazard. Of course, context is everything - at 11pm it may seem harsh but the fact remains that there's a multitude of wrong going on there. Was he cheeky to the Police perchance?

He's fortunate to get away with a £50 fine IMHO but I agree that a caution is heavy handed.

Many years ago I rode a bike with no lights while I was very very pissed indeed. The police stopped me and had a pretty stern word. This is unsurprising as I'd just ridden right into the back of their patrol car, which was in the road, blue lights flashing, having just pulled a car over.

I got a letter a few weeks later saying that although there was enough evidence to charge me with being drunk in charge of a bicycle, it wasn't in the public interest to do so and I should be of good behaviour from now on. It must of worked because every time I've drunkenly crashed into a parked police car since I've had lights on!

Love it how roadies hate it when a car does something wrong and they must be burnt at the stake but if a roadie does then oh well give them slap wrist and forget about it!

Many years ago, I was pulled over at night with some friends by an off-duty officer - he spent ages ranting about how we were riding with no lights and he was going to arrest us all.

I pointed out that of course our lights weren't on - they were dynamos and we weren't moving because he had swerved in front of us.

A couple of years back the police did a scheme where they stopped cyclists riding without lights and gave them the option to buy lights on the spot or pay the fixed penalty. Seemed like quite a good idea to me

Was he cheeky to the Police perchance?

Just make up an name and address for the notice, tell them you have no id and be on your way. Notice can then go in the bin 🙂

It's a shame that the 2 officers in the police car who watched me get sideswiped by a car last week weren't so conscientious.

When I shouted 'are you going after him' and pointed at the car, the one in the passenger seat shrugged and they drove off.

Fail.

If your identity cannot be verified an FPN cannot be issued. You are then arrested in order to ascertain your details through further investigation. This is, however, a last resort.

Coulda breathalysed him.

No lights
Riding on pavement
? Drunk in charge of a bicycle (200 quid fine and something like 4 weeks in broadmoor)

So in his infinite wisdom he thought it was a good idea to get a bit pissed, get on his bike at night with no lights, and ride on the pavement?
And then when he got pulled its somebody else's fault?
I'm not seeing it tbh..

I would rather he rode home pissed on the pavement (with or without lights) instead of jumping in a car and driving home pissed.

eskay - Member
I would rather he rode home pissed on the pavement (with or without lights) instead of jumping in a car and driving home pissed.

To wobble across a junction with no lights or helmet on, poor judgement and spatial awareness and get knocked off by a car turning into the junction. Massive head injuries, coma, ruined bike, brain damage, life ruined and causing the driver and occupants of vehicle to have flashbacks and panic attacks for the rest of their lives.

Dad of the year.

Love it how roadies hate it when a car does something wrong and they must be burnt at the stake but if a roadie does then oh well give them slap wrist and forget about it!

It's a bloke riding a bike on the pavement. How does that make him a roadie?

He's a Pavie.

There is no power to breathalyse a cyclist. I would bet the £50FPN that he started arguing with them when they offered some words of advice. He hasn't been cautioned. They've told him to wind his neck in. There is a significant difference. If he feels its unfair or unlawful then he can ask to go to a magistrates court instead. Or he's told you a load of nonsense, been acting like a bit of a pissed idiot and has been let off lightly so would therefore end up being treated much more harshly by the person in a wig.

since when is riding on the pavement an offence, if your drunk i can understand, so long as your not being stupid and creating a nuisance of yourself i cant see the problem, as for lights, at least he had the common sense to stay on the pavement, why should that be a problem though, riding with out lights on the pavement, i dont see pedestrians walking around with head lights, ive done it a few times, ridden home in the dark on the pavement without lights, due to me visiting my son, and staying longer than i intended to so had to ride home in the dark, there is no way i would ride on the road in the dark, but staying on the pavement and doing 8mph i cant see the problem, ive also been knocked off my bike 6 times on the road due to ****s in cars, i didnt see the coppers being vigilant then , even when i gave them the cars reg number, so my attitude is f--k the police, i would rather pay a fine, than risk my life on the road, just because some jobs worth copper thinks i should be on the road, had this argument with a copper recently, soon told him to sod off, i mentioned how many times does he ride a bike on the roads, and may be before lecturing me he should try it first, i used to be a strong supporter of the police but not any more, plus ive seen quite a few times police officers riding their bikes on the pavements.

steviecapt - Member
since when is riding on the pavement an offence,

Section 72 of the Highway Act 1835, amended by Section 85(1) of the Local Government Act 1888, prohibits cycling on any footway. An offence is committed if one ‘shall wilfully ride upon any footpath or causeway by the side of any road made or set apart for the use or accommodation of foot-passengers or shall wilfully lead or drive any carriage of any description upon any such footpath or causeway’.

One hundred years after the amended Act, cycling on a footway became punishable by a fixed penalty notice – usually £30 – under Section 51 Schedule 3 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988.

Only since 1835.

you're* x 2 and without is one word, it's also usual to caplitalise an I and there's lots of commas not needed. 3/10

I'd have started the sentence off with a capital letter. Put a full stop where your comma was, and started off a new sentence with a capital letter. But agree with the 3/10 on the Rant-O-Meter. 🙂

The cops appear to have done their job, even if some of us aren't happy about it.

On the occasions when I have been stopped, in a car or with a bike, I find nodding and agreeing a lot and using the phrase "I won't do it again officer I'm sorry" has so far avoided any fixed penalties

So if he had only been doing 40 in a 30 in a car on a quiet road at 11pm would that have been okay?

If I'd done that in my car and been nipped by the polis I would have hoped to get away with a stern word but I wouldn't moan about it if I was given a FPN.

Struggling to side with the OP. Cycling without lights is dangerous, the law on this one is there to protect everyone

aphex_2k - Member

To wobble across a junction with no lights or helmet on, poor judgement and spatial awareness and get knocked off by a car turning into the junction. Massive head injuries, coma, ruined bike, brain damage, life ruined and causing the driver and occupants of vehicle to have flashbacks and panic attacks for the rest of their lives.Dad of the year.

Man, are you a clairvoyant?

What if there was no junction?

I like the way you throw 'ruined bike' into that lot between coma and brain damage!

x2 morecashthandash

Anyone been handed a FPN for riding "cheeky" trails? Did you ride at night? How did you feel about it - fair cop guv or miserable plod? Did you have a Surly hip flask? Did you have the latest TROUT Photon Torpedoes? 😉

Pffft. You should have given him a second berating - for getting caught.
When I were a lad drunk in charge of a bike, the sight of the bizzies had me ****ing off super quick using my superior local knowledge of alleyways, cut throughs and hiding places (well one time anyway).
Nothing sobers you up like running from authority 😀

For anyone riding in Brighton this evening;

[i]BTN Beach Police ?@BTNBeach_Police

We're doing a "cycle" OP on Kings Road. Persons cycling on pavement will be ticketed![/i]

just so you know 🙂

sounds like a case of a) failing to spot the police (a common traffic offence), and b) failing the "attitude test"...

they've started!

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