HDMI Cables explained

Special One Drop Liquid

Is this a piss-take? Please tell me it is? 😯

Talkemada – Member

Indeed – and you can hear it better and enjoy it more when the sound is cleaner.

Really? See, a tune I like can have the same emotional impact on me wether it's on a nice stereo, or a little radio. I can 'enjoy' it just as much.

That's your opinion, I take it you only have one really cheap music player then?

LIke amny on here, you really ought to try a decent system.

In order to satisfy everyone across the whole range of the "cable quality" spectrum, a branch of Currys I went into near Christmas had the same cable – manufacturer's serial number and everything – available at six different price points from £100 to £20…

Is this a piss-take? Please tell me it is?

as far as I could make out, he was totally sincere – or perhaps he was just a very, very good actor – but even inadvertently it really does take the piss :o)

That's your opinion, I take it you only have one really cheap music player then?

LIke amny on here, you really ought to try a decent system.

Sadly I am not a rich man… 🙁 (Should have paid more attention at school then, slacker!)

In my bedroom, I have a little Bang & Olufsen receiver amp, running a pair of B+W DM601 speakers, and some reasonable inexpensive cable. Cheapo interconnect. Source is from my Mac, and I use iTunes. It's fine. The speakers are very nice, imo. In my front room, I have a Marantz CD player, Denon tuner and amp, Mordaunt Short MS25i floor-standers with Cambridge Audio interconnects and Gale 315 strand cable. Sounds pretty bloody good to me; many of my guests comment on the nice sound quality.

I appreciate this is all 'budget' equipment, but it's more than enough for me, tbh. I'm more than happy with it. I've had most of this gear for years, and it's either been bought at hefty discount in sales, or given to me.

So, considering this is a 70s built 'council' block, with plasterboard walls (with looking glass ties) and less than great acoustics, what would you recommend as a 'decent' system?

Headphones 😉

as far as I could make out, he was totally sincere

No, can't be. Not possible. Surely no-one could be that much of a c**t.

The following is a selection of Free sound improving techniques for you to try.

Plain piece of paper under one of four feet.

Place a plain piece of paper under any ONE of the four feet of a piece of equipment. This applies to any piece of equipment, even if it is not an item of audio equipment. Listen to some music for a short time, then remove the piece of paper and see if you can listen to the same music with the same pleasure – without the plain piece of paper in position !!
***

Pinning back one corner of a curtain.

Pin back ONE of the four corners of all curtains in the listening room with a safety pin.. Listen to some music for a short time, then remove the safety pins and see if you can listen to the same music with the same pleasure – without the corner of the curtain pinned back !!
***

Plain piece of Blue paper under any vase of flowers or any pot plant in the listening room.

If you have a vase of flowers or a pot in a plant pot in the listening room, stand the vase or the plant pot on a plain piece of BLUE paper. Listen to some music for a short time, then remove the piece of Blue paper and see if you can listen to the same music with the same pleasure – without the piece of Blue paper in position !!
***

Could they??? 😯

You know, I was just about to go buy some HDMI cables. I only want short cable runs *toddles off to buy cheapest HDMi he can find*.

Align the slots in all screw heads so that the slots are parallel to the earth's surface. ALL screws – screws fastening light switches to the wall, screws fastening AC power sockets to the wall, screws fastening shelves to the wall etc. Listen to some music for a short time and then move any of the screw slots away from being parallel to the earth's surface and see if you can listen to the same music with the same pleasure !!

If someone came up with that sort of crap in a pub, they'd probably get a right good kicking, and rightly so. Even at a polite suburban dinner party, they might find a cocktail olive shoved up their nostril in disgust.

cynic-al, you're sytarting to read like you are arguing.

For some people the 'quality' of the music/sound reproduction is important. For some it is not. For those that don't consider it important you're never going to convince them that you can detect small changes and that it does add/detract from your enjoyment. It's just the same with any hobbie…this site is full of arguments and discussions over does this or that latest bit of bike kit REALLY make a difference.

For me, I'll pay 10 to 15% of the value of my system on inteconnects and cables….probably nearer the 10% mark. I spend less on digital interconnects but still get reasonable ones not the cheapest going.

One thing that frustrates me though is when new kit is marketed to the public based on its quality and then manufacturers or media producers do stupid things that limit that quality. Digital radio could hav ebeen good (although a good fm signal was/is hard to beat) but they squeezed the channel spacing down to get more channels in and as a result the signals are not the quality promised originally. I believe similar things are going on with some hd tv transmissions (bbc are squuezing down the quality to up the functionality/more channels/red button interactivity).

Oh and why have sony blueray players and tvs got only an OPTICAL digital out? (for sound). High quality copper digital cables have the required bandwidth and are less lossy on a short run (electrical to optical conversion at both ends of the optical link cause a bigger loss over a short run). I must be missing something….presumably optical links are more costly…..but do Sony even make interconnects? Seriosly though, is there a reason?

Could they???

as evidenced in other threads, belief is endlessly malleable :o)

Seriosly though, is there a reason?

There's always a reason. Money.

and see if you can listen to the same music with the same pleasure !!

no way – I'd be worried about the alignment of the screws inside all my equipment and the power grid back to the power station 🙁

High quality copper digital cables have the required bandwidth and are less lossy on a short run

you can test this yourself – pull out an optical connector slowly, and so long as the spot of light stays pointed into the hole, the sound is unchanged till it gets too weak, when it suddenly breaks up and goes silent 🙂

What an exciting life you lead, SFB! 😀

Retro83 – hehe…. I spoke with denon to discuss why their cable was better than the cat5 cable connected to my pc. it wasn't a long discussion.

I didn't believe all of the rubbish touted about cables until we'd spent 3+ days, wasted, on site, with £000's of test equipment to try and resolve the matter, capacitance plays quite an important part too I understand. yes, it's a frightfully dull experience and 90% of you won't have any issues, but that 10% can cost loads to put right!

Thankfully (for my sanity) I don't work in that game any more!

Oh heck ok I'll chuck my 2p into the ring. Speaker cables…imho, it's all about the capacitance (as the word has been mentioned already I thought I'd jump in). Some geek on the interweb (so it must be true) did a load of electrical tests (no ears involved at all) to judge when a certain guage of cable started to reduce transmitted current due to capacitance. I don't remember his exact results any more, but I used them in the design of my home cinema room as I'm using in excess of 200 metres of speaker cable in here. I have no idea if I'd actually be able to hear the difference, but a loss in current was enough to convince me to go with slightly more chunky cable (still "only" a couple of quid a metre mind you).

Talkemada – you wouldn't have that system if you didn't enjoy better than average sound. So your argument is that you don't want to spend the money on anything better.

If you could though I imagine you would, though I expect you will say "no", just because you can.

By "decent system" I suppose I am talking £3K+ but it's a while since I worked with hifi.

I'm using in excess of 200 metres of speaker cable in here.

😯

Is your 'cinema room' the Millennium Dome??

Is your 'cinema room' the Millennium Dome??

You'd be surprised how the metres can rack up, especially when the equipment and screen wall are at the opposite ends of a 30ft room. Hopefully, my acoustics are a bit better than the Millenium Dome though 😀
Pics of my room

cynic-al, No. 😀

One, I can't afford/don't want to spend the money on a 'better' system, and two, quite frankly, it would be waste in this flat anyway. The acoustics are crap. And I wouldn't be able to really give a 'decent' system a full run for it's money, as I'd end up annoying my neighbours. No, I'm happy with what I've got. As for your slightly condescending assumption that I might not know what a 'decent' ystem sounds like, I've listened to £50-80k set ups, and tobh, can't see the fuss. Yes, they sound fantastic, but to me, it's the music that's important, not the sound.

So, a 'decent' system would cost ca. £3k then? Really? That's like saying a 'decent' bike would cost £3k. To the vast majority of people, who simply want to enjoy music, a modest system is perfectly fine. We're not all anal technophiles. I'd say £500-£1000 on a stereo system (notice I'm not using the term 'Hi-Fi' here?) is probably more than enough for the average home. If we're being perfectly honest.

If I want to enjoy music at it's best, I live in a city with a veritable cornucopia of fantastic music venues! 😀

In the meantime, I'll just carry on suffering with my 'crappy music player'… 🙁

Sweet lord Jeebus – that is some set-up! I love the gaming station!!!

this was my original point:

Indeed – and you can hear it better and enjoy it more when the sound is cleaner.

And basically you are saying you agree, up to a point. Took a while for you to do so eh? 🙄

Shittin' Heaven; you're not messing about, are you????

😯 😯 😯

Can I come round to watch 2001??? PLEEEAAASEE???

Fair enough. If you can afford it and have the space, go for it! I'd probably like something similar, although I dunno if I'd go quite as far! 😀

I think it's fair to say much of that equipment would be wasted in the average home, though.

How mad is that, I too have a plastic toy bat hanging up in my '(fleapit) cinema room'! 😆

For acoustic improvement purposes of course! I wonder if Peter Belt knows about that one?

pedalhead – Member

Is your 'cinema room' the Millennium Dome??

You'd be surprised how the metres can rack up, especially when the equipment and screen wall are at the opposite ends of a 30ft room. Hopefully, my acoustics are a bit better than the Millenium Dome though
Pics of my room

Love it, would love to watch a movie there, bloody belting "toy" room 😯 😯

And basically you are saying you agree, up to a point

Not really. I don't 'enjoy' the emotional impact of the music any more, I just appreciate the improvement in the physical delivery of the sound…

Seriously, I'm not all that fussed. Sure it would be nice to have a set-up like pedalhead's, but to me, it would merely be satisfying my ego, than enhancing my enjoyment of the music or films.

A bit like; a copy of a favourite painting is nice to have, but you don't need to own the original to enjoy the craft, skill and talent of the artist…

Heh yeah it's a bit of a man cave really. Always wanted to build something like this & when I got the chance I jumped at it. Took 8 months of sweat & late nights, but definitely worth it. Funnily enough, 2001 was the second film I watched in here. Blade Runner was the first 8) . If you guys want to bring the beer then feel free to come along for a viewing. Just to make you really sick, the downstairs part of the barn is the bike workshop 😀

Funnily enough, 2001 was the second film I watched in here. Blade Runner was the first

Were we separated at birth? Those were my first ever DVD purchases, in that order! 😯

Pedalhead is my long-lost twin and therefore all his stuff is mine as well! Brilliant!

What an exciting life you lead, SFB!

hey that's nothing! I also tried putting coloured films and bits of semi transparent stuff in the way to hear what they sounded like, but unexceptionally they just confirmed my preconceptions of identity…

mudshark – Member

Align the slots in all screw heads so that the slots are parallel to the earth's surface. ALL screws – screws fastening light switches to the wall, screws fastening AC power sockets to the wall, screws fastening shelves to the wall etc. Listen to some music for a short time and then move any of the screw slots away from being parallel to the earth's surface and see if you can listen to the same music with the same pleasure !!

Very funny – well done 😆

Hey Pedalon YOU'RE the Bat Barn guy! Saw the film on AVForums – respect dude.

Were we separated at birth? Those were my first ever DVD purchases, in that order!

Pedalhead is my long-lost twin and therefore all his stuff is mine as well! Brilliant!

If you ride a Blur or a Fivespot, I'm calling the police 😀

Hey Pedalhead YOU'RE the Bat Barn guy! Saw the film on AVForums – respect dude.

(corrected for ya 😉 ) Cheers, it was fun doing that vid, especially getting the nod from Phil Hinton on the finished result.

Sadly, I must have been the one that got sold to peasants, and can only manage a tatty old Raleigh… 🙁

Heh yeah it's a bit of a man cave really.

yeah, no sofa means no cuddling 🙁

yeah, no sofa means no cuddling

It just means she has to sit on my lap 😈

Actually, I purposefully didn't fix the chairs or cupholders to the floor so I can move things around. The sofa could easily be swapped around with the chairs. Having said that, I mostly watch films on my own (sad I know), because we have kids indoors & even though the barn is only a few feet from the house, we don't feel comfortable being separate from them like that. Plus, my wife actually prefers watching stuff in the living room (42", no surround etc). Women are bonkers.

Ironically I'd spend £ on hifi if I could but not AV.

More Belt fun:

Freezing using a domestic deep freezer.

Try the freezing experiment using a CD first – they are usually the easiest object to hand. If you have two identical CDs all the better as you can keep one CD as the control (no treatment) and put the other CD through the freezing/slow defrost process.

Place one CD in a plain plastic bag and place this bag in the domestic deep freezer overnight. When you remove the CD from the freezer, allow it to return to room temperature very, very slowly. You can achieve a slow defrost quite easily by wrapping it in a towel or blanket. Listen to the CD which has been through the freezing process first and then see if you can listen to the other (unfrozen) CD with the same pleasure !! Putting the previously frozen CD through the freezing/slow defrost process a second time gives you a further improvement in the sound.

If you have success with freezing a CD, then try putting an interconnect or an AC power cord through the freezing/slow defrost process also.

Also experiment by applying the same freezing/slow defrost process to such as batteries. Again have identical batteries. For experimental purposes the batteries used in remote controls are an ideal battery to use. If the remote control takes two batteries, then you require four identical batteries – two to be put through the freezing/slow defrost process, and the other two to be left as the control ones (non treated). After freezing two batteries, insert them into the remote control and listen to some music for a short time. Then replace the (treated) batteries with the untreated batteries and see if you can listen to the same music with the same pleasure as before !!

note: I have a feeling freezing some lithium batteries may destroy them:(

It's a wind up, got to be!

I went from £1.50/m loudspeaker cable to £5/m silver stuff – big difference. but then there's a tangible difference between copper and silver.

And it was a short run, so it was only about £40 outlay. And it was a very effective £40 spent.

It's all about small incremental changes. It's like saying having a 50g lighter stem on your bike makes no difference, but get the lightest version of everything together and you have a 19lb bike that rockets you up hills faster than you would ever think possible.

pedalhead is George Lucas and i claim my £5