Has anyone been on the Alpha Course?

Fair enough , if it's what you want to believe and it makes you feel better…. I can't say I can see any reason to believe in any of it though.

What those of a any religious persuasion have to realise is that having 'blind faith' is not inherently superior to not having 'blind faith' and that other people should not be forced to 'respect'/accommodate other people's unfounded beliefs and dogma-led demands. Just because someone in the distant past (when many things that are now understood were thought to be miracles or works of supernatural beings) wrote down a story that had been passed by word-of-mouth over generations, it doesn't make it true.

Don't forget, religion is very influential. Remember, we live in a state with an established church to which the vast majority of the population does not actively belong or believe in, if they spend any time thinking about it.

How come all the 'atheists' on here are so horrible and full of snide sarcastic putdowns about Christians?
You dont see me writing derogatroy comments about you and your beliefs. I'm not trying to convert any of you, if your happy then fair play, live and let live and all that jazz.

As much as you would have us believe that its not really true is it?
Millions die in Sub Saharan Africa due to the Churches approach to condom use leading to the spread of Aids. The church even forbids condom use amongst married couples.
The Church has tried to ban stem cell research which is one of the most promising areas of scientific research because of their religious views. This has fortunately been overturned by the new administration in the US however years have been lost.
In the UK the belief in invisible friends allows the church tax free status which indirectly reroutes much needed funds away from schools and hospitals.
So this "cant we all just be nice" attitude makes by blood boil and is disingenuous and I suspect you know it
You also dont have a monopoly on ethical behaviour so dont (as many of your type do) try the claim you invented it and without god we would all rape and kill each other or that society would go into meltdown. Many other secular countries do OK and IIRC it seems to be your "good" books that preach infanticide, rape and genocide in large portions!

He offers us eternal life at no cost to us, all we have to do is believe in Him and accept His gift.

You'll have to make this clear to me, sorry. Do I have to have belief to get into Heaven, what if no-one has told me about him, do I still get in? What if I'm the nicest, most generous person on the planet but still don't believe in god, do I get in then? I wouldn't want to go to hell, I just want to make sure I'm doing enough. What if I just don't believe and no amount of doctrine will make me believe, am I bad? Am I going to burn?

I'm pretty sure it's statements like that which get atheists backs right up and generate all this abuse, you might want to rephrase things, just trying to help.

In the knowledge of this gift who wouldn't want to 'good things'?

I'd be very worried about someone who only started doing good things after they discovered god. You're either a good person or you're not, god can see inside you and tell you know, he's all powerful. You're not going to pull the wool over his eyes by doing good things.

He offers us eternal life at no cost to us,

isn't that very evil ? Eternal ?? How soulcrushingly boring would that be – and no escape ?

I feel slightly exasperated, it is kinda en-vogue to be an atheist.

But in my opinion it is a easy option and pretty lazy in post-modern society.

I'm struggling to understand what that means. Does post-modern mean we already know everything ?

It's the agnostics who are lazy in my opinion. I'm a pretty active and committed atheist.

I used to think I was an atheist, but then I realised that was too didactic and in fact I don't care how many gods there are. I'm too lazy to bother trying to interact with or take notice of beings too inaccessible to converse with

Lou belle your book is less than flattering or inclusive about what will happen to those of us who do not follow it be we just simple non believers or God forbid( pun intended) Gay.

This is what happens to those that have not followed god which you do by following Jesus

In John 14:6 Jesus saith, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Those who do not get salvation via christ get this

Mat 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

I am NOT damming you to anything.

PS it also asks you to do be nice to us in your book

Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect. Peter 3:15

How come all the 'atheists' on here are so horrible and full of snide sarcastic putdowns about Christians?

I'm in love with a Christian…
I'm not sure horridness correlates with religion either way

I'd be very worried about someone who only started doing good things after they discovered god

I'm not sure about this. I'd be happy they were nicer and not care why. After all, it's not the thought (which is always open to speculation) that counts but what you actually do

When a bad thing or situation occurs I often hear the faithful ask god to give them the strength to carry on but few people curse god for putting them in the shit in the first place.

I appreciate that faith gives some strength but that doesn't stop it being untrue.

I reckon God would be the first to dismiss religions as, at best, well meaning but ultimately misguided attempts by groups of humans to ensure their interpretations of God's word are followed on earth, and at worst sets of rules invented by humans to control other humans.

Either way, religions were invented by humans, for humans, and as such they are as flawed, fragmented, inconsistent and corrupt as any other human invented system.

few people curse god for putting them in the shit in the first place

Oh yes they do. Don't know about other Religions, but Suffereing is one of the biggest issues that christians struggle with.

Even Jesus himself apparently had a bit of a wobble towards the end: "My God, my God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?"

Samuri, thanks for the advice, however the simple truth is that He (God) gave his only Son so that we might be saved, that is the gift he offers us, eternal life, spent in heaven with Him. Simonfbarnes, sorry if that's boring to you, but I can understand that if you don't believe in God and how amazing He is, then it would seem boring!? The subject of people who have never heard about God and Jesus is a very tricky one, and one which I can't give a definitive answer to, sorry. Best suggestion is to go on an alpha course and ask!
With respect to "who wouldn't want to do good things", what I was trying to explain is that when you believe in God you try harder to do good things and act in a way that reflects your faith. This doesn't mean people don't do good things before, people with no faith at all do amazing things for other people in this world.
Sorry if I've got athiests back's up, not my intention at all, just trying to explain that being a Christian is in no way at all dependent on what you do, it is wholly dependent on making a decision to believe in God and his son Jesus, and that Jesus died to save you.

And clubber, no you don't have to go to church to be a christian, you can be a christian and never step foot in a church. However it is strongly advised in the bible to spend time with other Christians as you can encourage each other this way, and teach each other.

but I can understand that if you don't believe in God and how amazing He is

I said I'm happy to believe in any number of gods, though I've now realised I have to restrict that to zero or positive integers (including infinity) only as a negative number of gods doesn't have any obvious meaning, and neither do fractions, and if one is to believe in something one had to be able to understand what it means. However my belief is irrelevant to my way of life until such time as a god makes itself known to me in a non delusional fashion. Their current status ranks with childrens' invisible friends.

Even if one or more of the gods are very amazing that doesn't constitute a credible basis for prolonged existence for me as I like to do stuff on my own account.

sorry if that's boring to you

even quite a short time contemplating wonderfulness in an environment of zero challenge or passion sounds very boring to me, and the added kicker of no escape makes the concepts of heaven or hell indistinguishable 🙁

Hi. I'm back. I'd just like to say that since my last post, this thread has resulted in just what I was talking about before. Xtians on this forum trying to justify their belief in an imaginary friend by quoting from their book of nonsense, as if they really think that is going to change the atheists minds.

If you cannot summon up a useful counter-argument, quoting scripture is not going to do it. We've already told you we think your book is nonsense.

What part of "missing the point" is it that you don't understand.

"t helps me cope day to day with caring for my severly handicapped son, it gives me reasoning, solice and comfort. "

Perhaps your son would be better off being cared for by professionals? You wouldn't need your jesus crutch then. I'm sure it's very comforting but as I said before – being comforting doesn't make it true. You have to prove the case, and that has not yet been done.

Finally, I'm getting off this merry-go-round, consider it evidence that the last bastion of the religious, in the face of reasoning intelligence, is a retreat into dogma.

By the way, C. S. Lewis was a pompous half-wit who couldn't write for toffee.

So ya boo sucks. ;o)

;o)

I don't think it's kind to call the religious types "sad and sorry goddists" – obviously their beliefs fill some need just as scepticism suits others. At root all beliefs are internal, arbitrary constructs, and for that matter you cannot tell what someone else believes as they may not be truthful about it.

I'm a bit late to this, just back from the pub. Could anyone give me a precis? Have we established which gods exist yet and which one's are the loving ones and which ones are the petty vindictive ones, and which one's have got the power. Has the book of Dave been revealed as the true source yet?

Perhaps your son would be better off being cared for by professionals? You wouldn't need your jesus crutch then.

Well. I do like being a prick on this forum, but it seems I'm an amateur.

I completely agree, that is one of the most unpleasant things I've seen posted in a forum.

it is wholly dependent on making a decision to believe in God and his son Jesus, and that Jesus died to save you.

But all your premises are open to debate…you cannot deny that.

Unles sof course you are able to give me proof that
1. Jesus existed.
2. God esists
3. Jesus was the son of God.
3. Jesus died to save me.

We know you cannot prove this and so do you.
Therefore in the absence of any supporting evidence I choose to beleive that God, fairies, ghosts and Santa does not exist.

Persuade me with eveidence not superstition.

I read your post Johnnie, but to my mind it doesn't matter if Jesus existed or was god or whatever. Gods can do god stuff and humans can do human stuff without obligating each other

Have we done the bit about science not being able to truely measure objective reality due to the effect of the intention of the observer, and scientists saying allow us just one miracle (something from nothing, i.e. big bang) and we'll explain the rest? 😀

Have we done the bit about science not being able to truely measure objective reality

that's a speculative construct too as we only have us to think about it, and we're all subjective

Unfortunately the uncertainty principle and Shrodingers cat is just to much for us all.

The fact there are gaps in the knowledge of science does not make it wrong. Assume God exists and we just say so who/what made God.So something somewhere came from nothing us or God and we at least know we exist.

Gods can do god stuff and humans can do human stuff without obligating each other

True in the rational world SFB but we are dealing with believers here so unfortunately in their world NO. Remember he gave his only son so that we must be saved etc etc.
Ps we cannot explain the Big Bang but we are farily sure it took more than 6 days and a day off to "work".

"Well. I do like being a prick on this forum, but it seems I'm an amateur. "

Oh dear, that didn't come across too well, did it? Perhaps I should have been fluffier, given the difficult situation…

All I was suggesting was that, as professional palliative care is available to at least allow home carers time off to relax and recuperate, it might be a good idea to employ such.

Then the need for a religious crutch (as defined by the respondent herself) wouldn't be necessary. Or is that a bad idea?

Please don't hurt me, I'm only little.

;o)

professional palliative care

It's not terminal, you know!

No, but it sounds like loula is barely coping to me…

Tiboy – Member

…the simple truth is that He (God)gave his only Son so that we might be saved, that is the gift he offers us, eternal life, spent in heaven with Him

At the age of 14 I found that vey hard to believe and now, in my 30s, I don't find it any easier.

Please explain to me where the knowledge of this "simple truth" comes from. I'm genuinely intrigued as you obviously know something that nobody else does.

Perhaps I should have been clearer just then; palliative care is for people dying at home, usually but not exclusively of cancer. Perhaps you should have a trawl back though her posts to find out what's up with her lad (no he isn't dying) and how she gets on with it. [edit: perhaps the word you meant was 'respite'.]

Though her religious/faith persuasions are news to me…

Loulabella, I can understand why you may be sensitive to criticism of Christianity or religion in general, look back and you'll see that most people who don't agree with your beliefs haven't been nasty and similarly don't expect that because of your own circumstances ( which are pretty well known here and with which I do sympathise ) you won't get picked up on comments that don't really stand up in the context of the discussion ( though I'll admit that I held off becuase it did seem harsh on you specifically).

Well, I've now read all of this thread in absolute dis-belief!! 8)

There's a family of so called "Christians" across the road from me and a nastier, snobbier, bitchier, judgemental group of people you would really struggle to find.
It would seem that their "christianity" only extends to white, middle-class, nicely-spoken like-minded types…

Sounds to me like ripe wind-up material…. Spray-can a pentagram on their front door after they've gone to bed.

Did I say that? I didn't say that.

whereas Jesus used to hang out with beggars, prostitutes (allegedly) and lepers, and insisted on turning the other cheek…

There's a family of so called "Christians" across the road from me and a nastier, snobbier, bitchier, judgemental group of people you would really struggle to find.

Imagine what they would be like if they weren't christians then….

feenster…sadly they do it all in the name of "Christianity"!!

They'd be OK I reckon…

"whereas Jesus used to hang out with beggars, prostitutes (allegedly) and lepers, and insisted on turning the other cheek… "

Allegedley.

feenster…sadly they do it all in the name of "Christianity"!!

Well, they haven't quite got the hang of it yet then, have they? Give them time.

Well, feenster…I reckon they've just about perfected it!! 😉

So Mother Theresa had it all wrong then? 😯