Has anyone been on the Alpha Course?

I rest my case. Gotta go. 'bye!

he's got experiments to conduct.. 8)

I really like the forum, but the God-bashing that goes on here is surprisingly ignorant.

Ignorant of what? The existence of god?

To be honest I feel an obligation to present an anti-religious, anti-faith (anti-christ, if you like) viewpoint from time to time. Simply because some, not all, of the religious feel an obligation to put their side across. It's all about balance.

As long as there are organisations, like the christian church, who (1)peddle a view that is (in my opinion) nonsense and (2) feel a need to bring everyone else round to that view, I will do my bit in countering it.

It's the evangelism that I object to, not the believing in nonsense. I have no issue with judaism for example. I think they're wrong but they don't want to convert the world so let them get on with it.

And let's be clear about Alpha. It is not a service to society provided by the church to allow us to think neutrally about the big issues. It is an evangelical tool. If it didn't have a positive conversion rate it would have been dropped long ago. It's no better that a scientologists 'personality test' or time-share sales (in the hereafter).

STW is not anti – religion it is just anti spouting nonesense again persuade us of your case we could be convinced with evidence if you could produce it.
Granted we are not exactly at the cutting edge of philosophical debate but I am happy to discuss St Thomas Aquinas or David Hume if required.

ps as your book of truiths defines faith/your belief as

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

yet you accuse of us of being closed yet you are CERTAIN OF WHT YOU DO NOT SEE 🙄

I think it's ignorance of other peoples beliefs..

I feel slightly exasperated, it is kinda en-vogue to be an atheist.

But in my opinion it is a easy option and pretty lazy in post-modern society. Were as religion was for the masses before popular science had evolved to become part of popular culture.

It's the agnostics who are lazy in my opinion. I'm a pretty active and committed atheist. Depending on how you phrase it, it's a pretty big question (Where did we come from? What is life? etc) and it deserves serious consideration.

The agnostic "I don't really know" (a la Mavis Riley) is a bit weak. Maybe we should prod them with pointy sticks 'til they join one camp or the other.

I suppose deep down my concern is that, until someone comes up with an atheist Alpha course, the undecided/unthinking will only ever be pulled one way.

As Bart Simpson asked…

Will cavemen go to hell?

STW is not anti – religion it is just anti spouting nonesense.

Unless you happen to believe that 'religion' = 'spouting nonsense'.

As Bart Simpson asked…

Will cavemen go to hell?

And spend eternity discovering fire?

I'm glad we're all agreed that faith and religion is bunkum, and that gullible people will believe anything put in front of them that seems to denote order where there is chaos, and this is a useful way of controlling the sheeple through fear…

I'm with loulaBella…

Interesting how all these threads so quickly degrade into personal insults/childish playground put-downs… from people who spend above average time in the wonder of creation too

Or maybe the problem is you're all riding in trail centres 🙄

And spend eternity discovering fire?

LOL – it would certainly leave them free to spend more time catching dinosaurs if fire has already been sorted for them… 😉

from people who spend above average time in the wonder of creation too

exactly, is this wonderful planet with all the amazing forms of life on it, the beautiful skies and mountains spinning through a huge and spectacular universe not enough for you? Can't you take it at face value and just enjoy it with out demanding a "why" all the time like a toddler smacked up on Sunny-D and demanding reasurnace that you are some how "special".

And to respond to erbii, yes I am special and I do make a difference. I know this and the people who matter to me know this. Outside of that I really could not care and don't expect the universe to care or give me special treatment either.

SSP

@Singlespeedpunk but in your own words your experience was 'amazing'.
Isn't God amazing?

Gotta make you think doesn't it?

So all amazing things that can't currently be explained are due to god?

Pretty sure that was how things like the thunder gods and so on were thought up….

Hmmm evidence…well regarding the New testament as a historical document: If you compare the number of manuscripts available to study, from (just to stay on track an Alpha reference) there are about 5000 Greek, 10000plus Latin and over 9000 other manuscripts apparently available to verify it. This compares to 20 on Livy's Roman History and 10 on Caesar's Gallic war – do you question them? It is far and away the most verifiable ancient document there is.
Now – what is in it…another matter. Maybe best summed up by C.S Lewis in Mere Christianity:
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that
people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral
teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God." That is the one thing we
must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus
said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic-on a
level with the man who says he is a poached egg-or else he would be the
Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the
Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a
fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His
feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising
nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to
us. He did not intend to."
Again I say – everyone should make up their own mind. It is obvious that some already have!

What always makes me chuckle (as a Christian) is the "science PROVES God doesn't exist" line taken by a lot of people….does it really?…in what way exactly does it PROVE it?…to quote our own Mr Woppit "all you have to do is show me the evidence"…..

The agnostic "I don't really know" (a la Mavis Riley) is a bit weak. Maybe we should prod them with pointy sticks 'til they join one camp or the other.

There is no evidence of a 'god', nor is there evidence of there not being a 'god'. As it happens I'd be surprised if there was a 'god'.

I'm open-minded enough not to believe what I was told at Sunday School as a child. I do not believe a word of the organised religions(all of them claim to be one-true-way to heaven which must be wrong for a start…).

Does rejecting all religion make me an atheist or does the fact that I don't worship a god because I see no reason to make me an agnostic?

What always makes me chuckle (as a Christian) is the "science PROVES God doesn't exist" line taken by a lot of people….does it really?

…But that's not what people generally say.

A religious person says "god exists"

A non-religious person says "how so? What is the evidence?"

The religious person says "er, because I want to believe it" (Which, as a non-christian, makes me chuckle)

The non-religious person says "Hmm, I'm not convinced…"

What always makes me chuckle (as a Christian) is the "science PROVES God doesn't exist" line taken by a lot of people….does it really?…in what way exactly does it PROVE it?…to quote our own Mr Woppit "all you have to do is show me the evidence"…..

I am happy your ignorance makes you chuckle

You cannot prove a negative 🙄

This is exactly why I said the best thing to do with Religion is ridicule it.

Pointless to try and have a reasoned argument.

I sincerely hope that one day if enough of us laugh hard enough they will go away and maybe think about why we are laughing.

sorry bizarrely double posted with a temporal difference
Computer Gremlins or the hand of God …hard to tell

erbii, why doe it take the exsistance of god to make something amazing? Would amazing stuff be mundane with out a god there? Can't you enjoy this world and your life with out having to "thank" some one for it?

Please re-read what I wrote in the post above before replying again.

A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus
said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic-on a
level with the man who says he is a poached egg-or else he would be the
Devil of Hell. You must make your choice.

Well mental illness would explain it, but please refer back to my first post in this thread that good people will always do good things and evil people will do evil things. But to get good people to do evil that takes religion.

SSP

errrrr…..
agree to disagree, Im off to the New Theatre Royal now where my 'Christian church' are raising money tonight for a local hospice, us Christians are awful you know!

What always makes me chuckle (as a Christian) is the "science PROVES God doesn't exist" line taken by a lot of people….

Anyone who tells you that is as deluded as the people that tell you that a daffodil/sunset/hope/laughter/etc PROVES there is a god.

My atheism is a belief. It's not that I don't believe in god; I believe there is no god. But it's incredibly difficult to prove a negative.

Where science and god have a problem is with people who take the bible too literally e.g. universe created in 6 days, water into wine, people rising from the dead etc.

errrrr…..
agree to disagree, Im off to the New Theatre Royal now where my 'Christian church' are raising money tonight for a local hospice, us Christians are awful you know!

Good for you however lots of others are also doing selfless deeds without the promise of everlasting reward!

Well done loulaBella, what do you want a lolly?

No, eternal salvation and to avoid hell. I thought we'd done that one 😛

@SSP ur the one that had the experience man! What makes u so sure it wasn't
a blessing sent from god, he could have chosen u to be his messenger..

erbii, ok I am the son of god, worship me by sending dontations so I can buy new bike stuff. Oh and have Sundays off for biking and cake.

Off to do some smiting now…

His Holiness SSP – the incarnation of the flying spaghetti Monster*

*ladies will be touched by my noodly appendage.

Think something needs to be clarified, being a Christian isn't all about doing 'good things' to make sure you get to heaven, it's about knowing God and His love. Plus He knew none of us would make it to heaven on that premise anyway, and being as He loves us more that we can imagine, He offers us eternal life at no cost to us, all we have to do is believe in Him and accept His gift. In the knowledge of this gift who wouldn't want to 'good things'?

(For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2 v8-9)

all we have to do is believe in Him and accept His gift.

so why the need for church? The above sounds like something any person who believes in god can do for themselves without any need for someone to tell them how to do it – eg all the dogma which, let's face it is just people dressing up in silly outfits and saying mumbo jumbo.

"Being a Christian isn't all about doing 'good things' to make sure you get to heaven, it's about knowing God and His love"

My goodness is that the time I really must go over there now, goodnight..

I think Zerodown said it best in their hymn "Empty Promised Land"

Because ego won't permit belief in our mortality;
so we manufactured our delusioned lie;
We believe with much conviction in our useless superstition
that our lives are bigger than life.

Why does "he" want us to believe in him? If he cared that much about our belief he could just stick his head round the door and say hi, then he'd get my attention. Would make everything much simpler. Besides he did it lot's in the old testament, why not now?

he did it lot's in the old testament, why not now?

"Gott ist tod"

Or at least irrelivant…

Pretty sure that was how things like the thunder gods and so on were thought up

I thought thunder and lightening was Santa making Christmas presents?

I thought thunder and lightening was Santa making Christmas presents?

There's something we need to tell you about Santa.

How come all the 'atheists' on here are so horrible and full of snide sarcastic putdowns about Christians?
You dont see me writing derogatroy comments about you and your beliefs. I'm not trying to convert any of you, if your happy then fair play, live and let live and all that jazz.
Yes my faith is a crutch, and whats wrong with that?
It helps me cope day to day with caring for my severly handicapped son, it gives me reasoning, solice and comfort. After approaching my doctor about 'not being able to cope' with my son (I should point out he is doubly incontinent, has no communication skills, most days smears s*** around the house, screams for extended periods of time, bites/scratches himself and others…… the list goes on) there is no cure, no medecine that can change his/our situation. I was taking anti deppressants for a long time and having CBT and it just wasnt working because at the end of the day Joel is still there and he doesnt change.
My faith gives me strength to carry on, I sing hymns to myself as I scrub shite off his bed at 3am and it stops me from crying and giving up. I dont really find Richard Dawkins that comforting in these times of stress unless I had a life size model of him to beat up when the rage gets too much 🙂 only kidding
It works for me and I love Jesus

& we luv u LoulaBella 🙂