Home Forums Chat Forum Has anyone been on the Alpha Course?

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  • Has anyone been on the Alpha Course?
  • miketually
    Free Member

    And I'd always ask the question of the church who use hell as the threat to make people do what they want, who's the person more deserving of going to heaven – the christian who leads a christian life in order to get to heaven or the atheist who behaves in a "Christian" manner because they think it's the right thing to do?

    If it helps, many Christians ask the same question.

    There's a lot of bollocks spouted about religion on here, often by people who seem rather too keen on Dawkins.

    clubber
    Free Member

    If it was an ad (which I'm pretty sure it's not) then it's not working very well 🙂

    clubber
    Free Member

    Mike – if that's true and based on my opinion that the answer is self evident, presumably they stop practising organised religion?

    (haven't read Dawkins btw 🙂 )

    Aristotle
    Free Member

    miketually – Member
    If it helps, many Christians ask the same question.

    It doesn't help, but it's interesting to know that christians are just as puzzled by what they are doing as I am about them doing it

    MrWoppit
    Free Member

    1: Already married. Described as a young woman. A child was born. "Virgin" not mentioned until the mistranslation. To accept the possibility you suggest, you would have to believe the self-evidently impossible, ie: have "faith".

    2: I don't assume the presence of an omniscient being at all. Higher knowledge than that possessed at the time would be that the earth is spherical, however – they thought the earth was flat, yet it would still have been impossible to see Rome – and they knew it existed. Unless the whole thing was a drug-induced hallucination, which hardly gives it any more credence than the rambling of some addled self-deluder. Also, if the only presences were "the Devil" and the alleged Jesus, who was there to report it?

    3: There is no record in all of the Roman texts for instance, to suggest that the entire Jewish nation was ordered to remove itself to individual places of birth for the purposes of taxation,a huge event that would not be unrecorded – and a ludicrous idea in the first place. Also, there are extant records of other uprisings and disturbances. None of the alleged Nazarene and his followers, however. Hardly an efficient censorship if you are trying to misrepresent the feelings of the time.

    4: Oh, of course. Silly me.

    5: The reason is that the authors lived in a completely different eras than the one which they are reporting, from stories handed down by word of mouth over 70 years in one case. More in the others. Word of mouth is the most innaccurate method of communication, subject to change over time like no other. They might as well have been describing something that began as a story-make-up game one evening in the local garrison by bored roman soldiers living in a land of what they regarded as a bunch of nutcases anyway, what with the popularity of various mendicants and "prophets" all over the place… Seventy years later, it's morphed into a series of real events.

    samuri
    Free Member

    We had some friends who out of the blue suddenly tried to convince us to attend Alpha sessions. They showed us a video of 'new' recruits being introduced to the doctrines. Now my experience of the modern christian church was previously one of reasonably subtlety, no more fire and brimstone from the pulpit (a bad thing IMO – after all, what is organised religion if it's not putting the willies up people? 😉 ).

    But this video was the most hamfisted attempt at brainwashing I'd seen in my life. Not one of the people in it was a 'newbie' be any stretch of the imagination, you could have combed your hair in the reflection in their cheeks. Their questions and answers were so obviously scripted I was embarrased for them and the dirty great white line of indocrination was so bright it almost blinded me.

    You could almost see them driving out of the car park not indicating before the video had even finished.

    I don't know if their methods have changed at all but as above, if you want to believe in a higher deity go for it but steer clear of organised religion. If there is a god I'm fairly certain all he asks for is faith. You can do that without bothering anyone else. Which begs the question, why do these people bother anyone else?

    MrWoppit
    Free Member

    But, having said all that, I am perfectly happy to accept that there is a god. All anyone has to do is present verifiable, convincing evidence. Then all us atheists can sit downand have a nice, scientific chat with god and work out a theory on how he fits into the known quantum universe and then we can move on. Despite the fact that, when examined, all the evidence points to a universe that doesn't have a god in it.

    clubber
    Free Member

    @samuri – The usual reasons. Power/money.

    @woppit – I'd actually argue that from a scientific viewpoint, there's no evidence either way…

    Singlespeedpunk
    Free Member

    "Good people will do good, evil people will do evil. But to get good people to do evil it takes religion"

    Hmmm…not heard great things about it. Dressed up brianwashing by do-gooders. Think for you self, the universe could not give a flying **** about you. Get over it.

    This

    and this

    are worth watching 🙂

    SSP

    Verbal-Kint
    Free Member

    Just been to see the guy do his God Collar show SSP. a couple of hours of great entertainment

    MrWoppit
    Free Member

    The universe acts the way it does by a series of indentifiable and observable relationships between events, each one of which events are caused by a previous event and leads on to the next. On all levels in predictable sequences. Events which do not fit the current picture are available for hypothesising ("dark matter" for instance), investigation and testing, followed by establishing a theory. All theory is able to be disproved so that the knowledge base improves over time. Everything changes in recognisable cause and effect patterns. There is no evidence of "miraculous" (ie: unexplainable), intervention on any level, macro or microcosmoligically, biologically or otherwise. Evolution, for instance, is a crane, not a skyhook.

    It is true that the last place often claimed by the religious where god hides, "before" the big bang, is unexplained by science. That does not mean that "god did it". It simply means that science has not yet progressed to the point where this can be explained. ie: "We don't know". To that I would add – yet.

    Singlespeedpunk
    Free Member

    Marcus Brigstock is playing Cheltenham soon…might book tickets!

    Mr Woppit: Science evolves with increases in understanding – religion is stagnent and fixed.

    I know which I prefer.

    SSP

    fennesz
    Free Member

    Just make sure you speak in tongues. You'll be having a private dialogue with God. Or you'll just be making up & repeating sounds. One of the two.

    FoxyChick
    Free Member

    Holy shit.

    sootyandjim
    Free Member

    The Alpha Course is just Christians trying to fight back against Scientology etc working 'their' turf. Its all a crock of sh!t whichever way you spread it.

    higgo
    Free Member

    The reason I asked the original question is that I'm going through a bit of a difficult time at the moment and I wanted to see if the Alpha course had made any real difference to peoples lives.

    Imaginary friends can't help you.

    The Alpha course is bottom feeding, bumping up the numbers in a struggling church with the weak, the needy and the impressionable.

    DaveGr
    Free Member

    I went to see Cannon & Ball on their evangelical tour. I even enjoyed it!!! There, it's out in the open and I'm not ashamed.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    When I had a peak at this thread earlier, I thought I would make a comment later. But looking at the way it has gone, I don't think I'll bother now………all really rather predictable.

    Capt.Kronos
    Free Member

    If there is a God the fecker certainly doesn't believe in me, so why should I bother with him/her/it?

    Given the last year or two I don't believe in much anymore.

    BillyBull
    Free Member

    You mean not the same views as yourself?

    bullheart
    Free Member

    I have faith. Faith in human nature, that folks will choice the right moral thing to do, and I think sometimes its easier to lump faith and religion together than go through the process of compartmentalising them.

    I was brought up a Catholic, but struggled with the discrepancies between the Old Testament and New Testament. It felt as though the church was losing its grip on the people with the 'fire and brimstone', and therefore started to offer Diet Religion in the form of an all-loving God to keep people interested.

    I had some close friends a few years ago that were evangelical christians, and we got on really well. When my ex and I split up, I encouraged her to talk to them because they'd been so supportive, but they proceeded to tell her that our demise was through God's anger/disappointment that we'd been 'living in sin'. That was clarification to me…

    However, who am I to critique the methods folk use to find comfort and solace? If someone who has encountered loss or pain benefits from organised religion, then who am I to argue? Once we're gone, we're gone – it doesn't matter what are views are before.

    Foxy Chicks response made me laugh out load though!

    tegski
    Free Member

    Make your own mind up.
    Go along – ask questions and see what you find out.
    I happen to believe in God. I guess I can't believe all of this world happened by chance – too much faith required for that.
    My experience with the Alpha course was that it was an open friendly place with all questions accepted and treated seriously – have a go.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    I happen to believe in God. I guess I can't believe all of this world happened by chance – too much faith required for that

    WTF is your defintion of faith? Please give me the biblical version or shall i do it for you ?
    Your doctrine requires faith because it is utter b0llocks.
    As many have said all the science beleivers [as you like to call us] are more than happy to be proved wrong on religion, psychic powers, phrenology, homeopathy you just need to simply produce some evidence and we will shut the f*ck up, admit we were wrong and change our mind.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    steelfan – Member

    Have I opened a can of worms? The reason I asked the original question is that I'm going through a bit of a difficult time at the moment and I wanted to see if the Alpha course had made any real difference to peoples lives. Not necessarily becoming a devout Christian but has it made them view their lives in a different light. To be honest I dont know what believe in at the moment. I'm willing to explore all avenues during this difficult time.

    If you are having a difficult time I would suggest non religious counselling. Using religion as a crutch is pretty dangerous IMO

    erbii
    Free Member

    @joolsburger I don't think you need to ridicule faith. It can be an essentially good & powerful emotion. The religious propaganda that is attributed to it though can be nonsense..

    LoulaBella
    Free Member

    Well, Im an out and out born again Christian, as a result of Alpha a few years back. I studied Philosophy at Uni and was a total atheist, had a total spiritual experience and became a Christian. Since than I've spent 3 years with the British Forces in Germany as lay Christian Preacher/Minister, which was rather daunting at 23! I loved the whole experience and respect the fact that everyone has there own beliefs.
    Im now back in the U.K and taking a break, I work as a cycle guide and preach about how great cycling is! Its a hugely emotional lifestyle living as Christian and very moving to try and live as Christlike as possible, its not for everyone, but I love it!
    Alphas a good thing but like I said not everyones cup of tea!

    sv
    Free Member

    Good to see a big response about God, discussion always good to have.

    tegski
    Free Member

    Junkyard – since you ask:
    Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen; it gives us assurance about things we cannot see. Hebrews ch11 v1
    As I see it, you put your faith in something – either Science or God. You choose.
    It is a personal decision.
    That is why my suggestion was to go along and ask questions – if the people running the Alpha course do not have answers, they will say so… but will try to get an answer for you by the next time.
    I can only answer from my personal experience – when I am riding (or in the mtns skiing) I look at the view and marvel at God's creation. My feelings.

    erbii
    Free Member

    mmm pg tips.. i have faith in that, always total confidence! that's my cup of tea 😆

    buzz-lightyear
    Free Member

    I really like the forum, but the God-bashing that goes on here is surprisingly ignorant.

    I strongly suspect the atheist fundamentalist gob-sh1tes on here haven't actually attended an alpha-course. But that does not stop them preaching their ignorance does it?

    Adults with imaginary friends are stupid

    Ha! I must cheated my way through my science and engineering degrees then.

    Singlespeedpunk
    Free Member

    Ha! I must cheated my way through my science and engineering degrees then.

    No, but if you atribute those results to talking to a 2000 year old Jewish zombie via telepathy you would be.

    Please do not project your ignorance on others, I have explored all sorts of religions and have found them all very "unsatisfactory" I have had, what some would call, a "religious moment" but my rational mind put it down to dehydration, exhaustion and heat-stroke…but I enjoyed it anyway! The feeling of empathy, love and contentment was amazing. Does it have to be caused by "god" or is the explanation that its just electrolye deficiency not "special" enough.

    SSP

    clubber
    Free Member

    Out of interest, have my comments been read as reasonable or ignorant?

    Singlespeedpunk
    Free Member

    "Hows my posting? 1-800-drivel"

    😉

    Fine so far according to the toothfairy!

    clubber
    Free Member

    Lol 😉

    erbii
    Free Member

    @SingleSpeedPunk maybe you just don't feel your special enough to accept it.
    btw the way I am neither religious or atheist. I just have an open mind..

    MrWoppit
    Free Member

    " LoulaBella – Member

    Well, Im an out and out born again Christian, as a result of Alpha a few years back. I studied Philosophy at Uni and was a total atheist, had a total spiritual experience and became a Christian"

    I suggest you examine the possibility that you suffered a Temporal Lobe Epileptic Fit.

    " tegski – Member

    Make your own mind up.
    Go along – ask questions and see what you find out.
    I happen to believe in God. I guess I can't believe all of this world happened by chance "

    Things do not happen by chance. I thought I explained that? Cause and effect have nothing to do with chance and therefore do not require any "faith", simply observation and understanding.

    It is evident, not only from this thread, that the religious simply cannot understand the simplest of reasoning – as I have said, the religious warping gets in the way. This is why it needs constant repetition: There is no evidence. Show me the evidence and I will accept your proposition that a "god" exists.

    Religion may be very comforting, but that doesn't make it true.

    Breaking into mass psychosis a la the "toronto blessing" is not proof of the existece of a god, only an example of human suggestibility.

    What is your evidence? I am available right now to be converted. Go ahead…..

    noteeth
    Free Member

    Dressed up brianwashing

    And what does Brian feel about people getting dressed up to wash him?

    (Noteeth – atheist and sometime palaeo-athropologist. I am deeply moved by the depth of Geological time.)

    LoulaBella
    Free Member

    What is your evidence? I am available right now to be converted. Go ahead…..

    Your minds already made up by the sound of things.

    I also dont see myself as 'religious', I have faith, in Jesus Christ and want to live my life by his example, serving and loving others.

    MrWoppit
    Free Member

    So, no evidence, then? Just an imaginary friend, as always. The "example" you mention is, of course, just a set of behaviours that can be found in all sorts of places, philosophies, stories etc. All very noble.

    Not however, evidence of the existence of either the alleged Nazarene or any type of "god".

    What I don't understand is why you don't understand that.

    As I said. I am ready to be converted. All you have to do is show me the evidence. Go ahead. Do it now…

    erbii
    Free Member

    something makes me think he doesn't want to be.. 😆

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