Has anyone been on the Alpha Course?

Mr agreeable – that reminds me of the old joke about someone having a budgie called Onan, because he spilled his seed upon the ground.

We had the Jehovahs round a while back so I asked them my usual favourite questions about the dinosaurs and then about noahs ark. I asked how big would the ark have to be for all the animals in the world plus the food etc.. and the witness said that one of the other blokes at his church actually had drawn (or been given) some plans for how it was and he would show me them, he made excuses and went on his way despite me trying to ask him some more questions about Adam & eve. I never saw him again so I still don't know how big the ark was.

I thought the sin of Onan was denying his seed to his wife, not mere masturbation ? Mind you I've never been able to read the bible because of the irritating presentation – after about 2 paragraphs I just slam it shut in disgust.

Dobbo, a quick search will answer all your questions 🙄

Mind you I've never been able to read the bible because of the irritating presentation – after about 2 paragraphs I just slam it shut in disgust.

😆 That's like saying I don't go to church because I don't like the vicars dog collar.

I'm still waiting for "tyger" to explain to me why it is that he/she has such a high regard for the ignorant bronze-age gibberish of scripture as opposed to all the enlightening advances made by humanity since then…

Presumably, the question is too difficult because it requires a tad more than responses such as "the big sky-daddy did it"?

Please, please, please, elighten us on this matter from your "tree of wisdom".

That's like saying I don't go to church because I don't like the vicars dog collar.

not exactly – I was brought up Catholic so I know quite a bit about the bible stories as related to me, but the book itself never holds my attention. As it happens I find most of the (few) parables I can rememeber quite good guidleines for living, never mind their source 🙂

I thought the sin of Onan was denying his seed to his wife, not mere masturbation ?

The Bibble doesn't actually say. Some sects have interpreted it as the act being sinful, others reckon it was his disobedience of God that got him into trouble. There's also disagreement as to what Onan's sin actually was – masturbation, contraception, frottage, or taking her up the wrong 'un. 😯

Whatever the case, it's an interesting illustration of the way that the definition of what is "right" and "wrong" according to religion can vary quite dramatically, depending on which parts of the texts are currently being paid attention to, and which are being ignored due to the prevailing social climate. 🙂

vinnyeh – Member

Dobbo, a quick search will answer all your questions

Cheers for that, you'll have to pop back round some time. 😆

Does anyone really deep down believe that though?
In this day and age with the technology we have, with the history of boat making, with evolution proved, can anyone really think "Yep thats what happened he built a humungous boat that withstood a massive storm he collected 35,000 individual animals and food for them for 371 days then 8 people looked after them, then dropped them back off at the appropriate place in the world and life carried on".

I like they way they try to give it credit by saying scientists had studdied it:

However, a number of scientists have suggested that the animals may have gone into a type of dormancy.

OK scientists usually work on proven theory's but that seemed to have gone out of the window on this one.

I also like this bit:

How were the animals gathered?

Another enormous problem some have posed is the problem of gathering specimens of each kind of air-breathing land animal and bringing them aboard the Ark. However, the Genesis account indicates that God gathered the animals and brought them to Noah inside the ark two by two. Some have suggested this may have involved the origin of animal migratory instincts or, at least, an intensification of it. We also know that most animals possess the ability to sense danger and to move to a place of safety.

Well thats that one sorted then!

Mr Woppitt, if I thought for one minute you were seriously interested I'd happily provide you with an answer but all you do is mock and ridicule what is precious to me and seem to be without a grain of respect for anyone – including yourself, which I think is very sad, so I shall just keep praying for you.

There's also disagreement as to what Onan's sin actually was – masturbation, contraception, frottage, or taking her up the wrong 'un

There's a wrong 'un?

never mind the animals – where did all the extra water go ? I think enough water to cover the extant land mass of the Earth might be hard to subsequently hide…

however one should not conflate the credibility of a book with the concept of divinity

You look at the damage done by a Tsunami where the water stays in for a matter of hours, the animals and people did well to keep alive and find food after the land was flooded for 371 days. I have a big respect for them now.

You look at the damage done by a Tsunami where the water stays in for a matter of hours

I think strictly speaking it's the first few seconds that cause most of the damage 🙁

Omnipotence can do wonders. Well, that's what I've always found.

I obviously didn't realise the true meaning of CIA, but it explains a lot.

I'm fairly sure that Onan's sin was having a sly tug, but then again, I'm not too sure – after all, the bible is a fairly big book, and like SFB, I struggled to finish it.

I'm fairly sure that Onan's sin was having a sly tug

Surely it's OK if you keep your eyes closed? 😆

100 years ago, when masturbation was regarded as the single biggest threat to civilisation, it was probably interpreted that way. Nowadays, with the Catholic Church bricking themselves that they're going to be outnumbered by Muslims in a few years, they're probably saying that Onan donned some sort of stone-age grogger.

I thought the sin of Onan was denying his seed to his wife, not mere masturbation ?

Does that mean giving her a pearl necklace is fine then 😀

Well. My hypothesis, based on what I've heard so far, is that "tyger" has no answer, so retreats into obfuscation whilst claiming hurt "feelings", disingenuous observations (as usual, without evidence – there are plenty of people who I respect, including many on here and also myself) and ends with a repetition of the intention to partake in a meaningless activity which will produce no result.

My conclusion is that the argument from religion seems incapable of producing anything of use, sense, or worth.

😕

Not just fine DaRC, de-riguer at Chez Mitchell…

is that "tyger" has no answer, so retreats into obfuscation whilst claiming hurt "feelings"

aren't you confusing him/her with ernie ?

On the upside, religion has inspired some great cathedrals and other art works…

As well as burning them down again SFB…

Last time I saw so many words, written by so many people, each with their own point of view, it had all been written into a book, blown if I can remember what it was called though…………. 😉

Sorry DaRC-L, but if you crashing the yoghurt truck doesn't result in the making of more little Christians, you're going to hell. It says so in the Bible. Not literally mind, but it still says it.

simonfbarnes:

The artists, designers and builders were the ones responsible for those works, not the religion. There is equally impressive art and architecture that is not the result of religion. Those talented individuals would have produced just as impressive work by being completely secular.

As Richard Dawkins has put it – (I paraphrase) "Well yes, Handel's Messiah and Mozart's Requiem. But why no "Symphony to the Universe", which would probably sound just as impressive!"

Edit: Oh, just reread you. "Inspired" – yes. Still fiction, though. 🙂

Thou shalt not adorn ones other half with jelly jewellery.

Gen. 6:14-16

Nor shalt thy wipe thy dobber on the curtains whence thou hast shed thy seed.

Edit: Oh, just reread you. "Inspired" – yes. Still fiction, though

I admit I was kinda scraping the barrel…

marsdenman – was it Rogers Profanisaurus?

aren't you confusing him/her with ernie ?

You think my feelings have been 'hurt' SFB ? That's funny ……. 'cause I thought that you have sounded a little 'bruised' on occasions.

Oh well, there you go. Still. You've generally thoroughly enjoyed this 18 page thread – ain't you mate ?

You could say, that this thread has been 'heaven sent' for you ……… given you a new meaning and purpose to your life ?

Maybe that is how heaven is Simon. Not the "overlit dentists waiting room" which you imagine, where "you never get the fun of seeing the dentist", as you put it.

But a forum thread on religion which runs for eternity and into infinity ……. and, you get to participate in !

Whaddya reckon me ol'fruitgum ?

Right, so we are to believe there were 35,000 different species on animal on the ark, does that not mean there should still only be that number?

Or has evolution been at work?

Why do I keep thinking this may be the post where Ernie admits he's been taking the p1ss and was having a laugh. 😐

Edit Talking to taking 😉

You're asking for a smiteing from on high Duggie! Evolution! You'll be talking about masturbation next!

where Ernie admits he's been talking the p1ss

WTF ???? Isn't this whole thread about 'taking the piss' ??!! 😯

How the **** did I misread that ? 😕

Sorry 😐

sorry, late to all this (& too much to read)

has anyone been on the course ?

There's a course?

or a curse – I've not really been concentrating

Every time I've been to a funeral its confused me that the grumpy man at the front first talks about the "sure and certain hope" that the deceased will spent eternity at god's right hand, and will be with all his old friends; and then says he will be at peace for all eternity.

So which one? Peace or Party?

I'm pretty sure I know how it feels to be dead. Do you remember what it was like before you were born? It's like that. Probably.

" Mr Woppit – Member

The artists, designers and builders were the ones responsible for those works, not the religion. There is equally impressive art and architecture that is not the result of religion. Those talented individuals would have produced just as impressive work by being completely secular."

Can you give us an example? In pretty much every city I've been to, THE most impressive building has been the Cathedral. I recently visited Saint-Chapelle in Paris and walked around with my chin on the floor..

I'm not religious btw, but I realise that in 1248(!) only the church would have had the money or motivation to inspire an architect to design and build such a thing. I'm just trying hard to think of an impressive ancient secular building..