Hardtail E-bikes – any aggressive out there

So Iv owned two e-bikes in my time, both 2nd hand and HaiBike but both full suspension. I prefer an analogue bike for when I’m doing uplift days etc.

Somedays on lunch at work I  just want to hit the local trail but I wouldn’t have time to go there and come back so thinking of getting a hardtail Ebike – doesn’t have to be new but ideally something that would be good on the trails – small drops – that’s it.

any suggestions?

Commencal used to do one that was half decent.

This is their current offering; https://www.commencal.com/en/commencal-maxmax-power/22MXMXPW.html

My impression was that there wouldn’t be any aimed at aggressive riding as the extra weight would be punishing on the rear wheel and tyre, and the resulting whacks transmitted up wouldn’t be good for the motor.

I’ve got a Kinesis Rise, it’s a “hardcore hardtail” type thing, with a Fazua system. It’s exactly what it is advertised as really, a tough HT that best suits fun mixed trail riding – that’s different to quite a few of the HT ‘hybrids’ that seem most common.

Ahh – ok this is interesting. Definitely starting to give me food for thought!

bikesandboots
My impression was that there wouldn’t be any aimed at aggressive riding as the extra weight would be punishing on the rear wheel and tyre, and the resulting whacks transmitted up wouldn’t be good for the motor.

Definitely this. I wouldn’t buy a hardtail ebike expecting it to be fun, especially not similar to a hardcore hardtail. I had a Kinesis Rise as my first ebike and the hits on the backend of something so heavy and stiff are far from fun. Sold it to a mate to use on the road.

the resulting whacks transmitted up wouldn’t be good for the motor

Or, more importantly, the rider.

Each to their own, but a HCHT is the last bike I’d want a motor on.

Haibike did a pretty aggressive e-HT.

I got a Tero 4 Eq with the mudguards and all. Dual Argotals and it is a rock crawling jeep of a bike. Use this around the Ochil hills and the occasional local dh trail. Not for the jumps but it certainly can shred if pushed. As does even my mini moto minibike from Halfords.

I’d love to have a motor on my Orange Crush but it would have to weigh absolutely nothing because the bike just wouldn’t be fun after adding the extra weight. Motor+battery+stronger frame must be minimum ~6kg so 50% heavier?

That Commencal up there looks really nice but at 20.6kg for a small frame, it weighs basically the same as my Orbea Rise so I can’t see the point. A Levo SL would knock a couple of KG off that weight and be a whole load more fun and be far more usable off road.

Admittedly it’s cheap but spec wise, everything is fairly low. I guess there’s a lot of weight to be saved by ditching the basic coil fork. Could go XT drivetrain and save a load of weight over the linkglide. Some new wheels would save load more and then some carbon bars etc but then you’ve spent enough money to just buy a Rise/Levo/EXe or whatever else is about these days in the lightweight category.

Thinking about wheels, you wouldn’t want to go too light on the wheels because you’re going to need something fairly stout on the rear so may e not as much woeght saved after all.

I dont think you’d ever get it down to a weight where the fun factor of a silly hardtail kicked in.

Sadly I really can’t see a motor working on a hardcore hardtail. A big part of what makes a hardtail work on rough trails is that the unsprung weight isn’t massively more than on a full-sus bike – on both you have the rear wheel and brake and most of the drivetrain, plus quite a bit of the rear triangle/linkages and the only big difference between the two is the hardtail’s bottom bracket, cranks, front triangle, seatpost and saddle.

Obviously the rider is sort of unsprung weight but as we have arms and legs we’re not really. Add a battery and motor and you massively increase the unsprung weight.

It’s similar to how Rohloff’s don’t tend to be great on gnarlier hardtails. And actually I’ve found a singlespeed hardtail is better in the rough because you don’t have the weight of cassette and mech back there.

I’d agree that they likely work or not depending on your usual riding locations.

I wouldn’t go for a E-HT if I was riding somewhere with lots of rocky square-edge hits and generally continuous rough riding. But then, anyone riding a HT at all on those trails is in for something of a punishment – that’s entirely what full sus is for.

My Rise is for the South Downs, which in fairness is where Kinesis designed it. Mostly earth trails, roots and undulating up/down/up/down riding over fewer vertical metres, on trails where you might find people on 140mm bikes asking “am I overbiked”. In that circumstance you get the geometry and the E-benefit, but not a capability designed for the Megavalanche.

I wouldn’t go full power E hardtail though, it would only work with the lightweight systems.

Whyte E-505.  My dad has one.  Great bike but I do echo everything people say about them being harsh off road. They do generate big old thumps through the rear wheel and with it being so heavy you can’t easily pop them over obstacles to avoid such impacts. Having said that that though he loves it and has taken it to Glentress a few times and didn’t complain. Now installed an Aeroe pannier rack and mudguards and couldn’t be happier pootling about the local area on it which is what it does best imo.

Owen – The Rise looks amazing. i very nearly bought one – ideal for my local (wild park – brighton). i was put off by the waterproofing. but i assume yours has been decent?

you might find people on 140mm bikes asking “am I overbiked”?

Went from the Rise to a 150mm full fat full sus and never feel “overbiked”! I’d say it rides a hell of a lot lighter than the supposed lightweight Fazua powered hardtail. The Rise was good for riding down the Hayling Billy Trail to the beach, I’ll give it that 😛

I have a Cube Reaction Hybrid, upgraded with 160mm Yari forks, Sram Code RSC brakes, Brand X dropper and Schalbe Magic Mary. Makes for a fantastic XC adventure bike. Will happily go anywhere (for those who know the Gap road in the Brecon Beacons, I regularly take it up over Fan y Big and drop down over Y Bryn to the Reservoir), but you have to ride within it’s limits, it’s a bit of a sack of spuds, so low speed tech is fine but big fast hits ate just going to pop the rear tyre. Horses for courses, but hardtail emtbs are way more capable than those who’ve never actually ridden them would have you believe.

“it’s a bit of a sack of spuds, so low speed tech is fine but big fast hits ate just going to pop the rear tyre.”

Are you running tubeless with an insert on the rear?

To echo the thoughts other people have about unsprung weight on hardtails, when my hardtail is loaded up for bikepacking, it’s a pig over anything that’s rougher than gravel.  I certainly wouldn’t want to be doing drops and things on it.

Tubeless yes, but no inserts. They would probably be a good idea but I can’t really be bothered with the hassle of them. I run quite high pressure in the back (32 psi) and just ride according to the limitations (it’s still a lot tougher than people would believe). I’m lucky enough to have other bikes if I want to go further or faster (hardtail XC and a full suss trail bike) but still the Cube is extremely capable as a big mountain adventure bike.

I don’t think they’re a good idea, but orange msisle fits the bill