Halving abortions to 12 weeks

Wiki has a nice little summary

…and there I was thinking you were angling for the scientific high ground on this thread. 😛

I’m just using it for laymen, it has a few links to some half-decent articles.

Not everyone has access to journals through Athens or interesting and reliable articles through a subscription to New Scientist, I do but I don’t think Junkyard does?

I thought the unspoken rule on here was “find out what you want to argue about in Wiki but never ever let on to the rest of the thread that you found it there”. 😆

Pfffft, I like open source/free access as do some of my old lecturers. There’s sometimes to much elitism in academics, if it’s good for giving people a general idea of the debate then why not link them to wiki?

Yes, I’d be murdered if I did that in a thesis – but this is a forum and some people seem curious enough (like Junkyard) to think about the topic in a critical manner so I believe it’s appropriate.

Are you still a biomedical student bwaarp?

Niet, doing a distance learning Msc. Why?

bwaarp – Member

Yunki calm down man, think of this thread as just a heated houses of parliament debate.

Yes, I’d be murdered if I did that in a thesis – but this is a forum and some people seem curious enough (like Junkyard) to think about the topic in a critical manner so I believe it’s appropriate.

Pick one and stick to it please. 😉

Oh bog off Julian lol

I just get wound up by intellectual laziness (appeal to emotion etc). I don’t mind people actually thinking about the research and debating it.

So I take it we are out of the “rumbuctuous dispatch box sparring” now then? 😀

Of course I often use google/wiki as ‘signposting’ (for myself or my patients), as do a number of my professional colleagues, as much as it pains us to admit it.

Bwaarp, speaking as a clinician, I think it is essential to be able to understand and “adjust for” intellectual laziness, but if you are going to making a career of this, you will do well if you know when it is pragmatic to sail a tricky course through this sort of stuff whilst holding your principles to your chest like a fragile infant, rather than throwing more and more hard science at it. Keeping fallible human beings interested and engaged (as opposed to bored and alienated/enraged) is half the battle of research IMHO.

but I don’t think Junkyard does

I dont have access to anything that is not free

I agree it is interesting[ thanks for the flattery] but it is like adulthood – we may draw an arbitrary line at 18[ or wherever] but it is not like it really means anything as it is a constant gradual development rather than some rapid leap over a day or the night you turn 18 or from 28 weeks to 28 weeks and one day.

i did actually read your links but, as i am no expert in this filed, it was beyond me in general ,so Wiki is fine whatever the snobs think 😉

Edited for the sake of the thread

I agree it is interesting[ thanks for the flattery] but it is like adulthood – we may draw an arbitrary line at 18[ or wherever] but it is not like it really means anything as it is a constant gradual development rather than some rapid leap over a day or the night you turn 18 or from 28 weeks to 28 weeks and one day.

I’m in complete agreement with you on this, what we need to know is the point that guarantees 100 percent or at least 99.99999999999 percent of foetuses won’t feel pain during an abortion.

You’ve shown a good awareness of the issue being discussed to the point that I don’t feel the topic is ‘beyond’ you. You just may not have the time to really develop a good understanding of Biology.

Honestly the only thing that winds me up are people that don’t want to know or won’t listen to those that have spent countless hours of their lives trying to know.

In which case, I’d respectfully suggest you see someone with medical qualifications then, lest said searing fury occur when you’re driving or in some other position where you might do someone harm.

Unless it’s all just keyboard warrior show

Respectfully Zokes, lets leave it at that shall we? We could have an interesting discussion, it’d be nice if someone could post some good scientific data or a well thought out ethical viewpoint before the thread get’s locked!

If we could, my cynicism in humanity might be lifted a little!

bwaarp – hokydoke.

I’ll have a poke about the literature when I get to work. As you’ve said though, it’s less the case of what’s in the literature, more the manner in which it appears to be rejected “because, IME/O….”

IME/O is not a good way to define policy, no matter what the subject matter. Peer reviewed scientific results are a much better place to start.

Thanks man. I miss Oxford (going back and fourth between a small town and oxford currently) so need some reasonably intelligent discussion to keep me sane – having others challenge my point of view is how I practice my own critical thinking and develop my own ideas further.

Everyone should be allowed their point of view, just keep in reasoned guys. Don’t just come in and say “well this or that is wrong….the end” (either end of the abortion spectrum). State your case and give some reasoned philosophy or evidence to back it up.

Poking fun at each other makes things entertaining as well, just don’t get so heated up in offence or become so offensive the report button is pressed a dozen times. I’m guilty of this but I’m trying hard not to be a dick, it’s hard sometimes and I’m used to forums that allowed out right trolling for the hilarity.

Given that lots of legislation allows for philosophical debate when being framed, what is special about the timeframe for allowing the termination of a foetus that means it should be done based on scientific data only?