Graeme Obree on depression

Some good stuff here:

Graeme Obree – Cycling Weekly

Wise words these…

But doesn’t money, fame and fortune help alleviate the pain in some way?

“No, it works the opposite way. I actually think society and the need for materialistic things contributes to depression. From childhood onwards, we are brainwashed into thinking that ownership of goods equates to happiness.”

“We now live in a society where a heck of a lot of us are wealthier than ever before, and that is supposed to make us happy and contented. We’re now suffering from anti-climactic syndrome, which leads to depression. Personally, I’ve no want for a car; I live in a single-bedroom flat; I’ve no want of a garden; my world is my garden.”

On a slightly separate note, this ‘anti-climatic syndrome’ I suspect is behind a lot of driver anger towards cyclists – got into £000’s of debt to get independence and freedom and ended up in a metal box prison while that git on a few hundred quid bike just casually rolls on by and disappears off into the distance. In marketing, we call it ‘post-purchase dissonance’ when you realise the reality doesn’t deliver on the promise 😀

Yep, agree 100% Getting out of it though……… is a different matter. It’s another one of those death bed / work scenarios (no-one ever lies there wishing they’d spent more time at work) – does anyone know someone who’s chucked it all in to live in a far more meagre but fulfilling manner and then decided to go back to work in an investment bank?

Yeah, in recent years I’ve definitely started purchasing “the thing that will do the job” rather than “the SHINEY thing that will do the job” – I suspect a lot of people find it a lot harder to avoid keeping up with the Joneses.

I am slowly trying to do this. I have stopped trying to work out how I can afford a bigger house with a bedroom for each child plus a guest room, and decided I don’t care if I stay in our 3 bed semi for the rest of my days. I’ve stopped worrying about my wife driving the new car and not looking after it 🙂 . And – bit dubious this one – I’ve settled to stick with just one mtb for a few more years and buy a new one then instead of trying to work out how to get it sooner. I avoid overtime (when I have a choice in the matter) so to be at home. I’m slowly getting rid of any possessions that I never use. It’s the way forward (apart from the only one bike bit obviously). This has accompanied a slow but steady recovery from severe depression (the planning suicide stage, luckily I realised in time where I was heading and went to the doctor). Life’s much better now I don’t worry too much about things that aren’t important.

Graeme Obree is a legend in many many ways and he talks so much sense.

I had a similar epiphany whilst wrestling with depression and severe anxiety. Once you accept that bigger/newer/shinier/more expensive isn’t necessarily better then you are half way on the road to better! I don’t think I will ever be completely over it all but life is good now I have embraced a more simple existence.

Great book on a similar topic is “Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less” by Greg McKeown – worth a read for anyone.

I also decided to simplify my life more generally; I binned Facebook, cropped my group of “friends” to a core important few and made a commitment to myself to spend quality time with my family.

We’re now suffering from anti-climactic syndrome

That says so much – added to the list of stuff that keeps me sane, just

“No, it works the opposite way. I actually think society and the need for materialistic things contributes to depression. From childhood onwards, we are brainwashed into thinking that ownership of goods equates to happiness.”

next time youre stuck in traffic in the expensive car youre paying for each week , look around you some are in cheaper ginks some in top of the range motors, but youre all stuck in the same traffic jam, some paying more for the benefit.

Next time you have an expensive meal, think of all those that depend on food banks, go cheaper and donate to a food bank,

Finally a local major company used to give management bmw,s as company vehicles, then to save cash they gave out renault Lagunasford focus, and Clios, a lot of staff resigned.

For a better overall approach to life read “The Power of NOW” and/or “A New Earth” by Eckhart Tolle. Truly life changing.

Brilliant – simultaneously recommending less and more at the same time, bravo!

Are people not able to think for themselves by now?

Jamz when you’re depressed you can do too much thinking for yourself and put yourself in a bad place because you haven’t got the xyz that so and so has, or the abc that whatsisname has and so that means they’re both doing better than you which means you are a failure in all things. Trust me, I’ve done it a million times. Part of recovery is accepting that although so and so has a shiny new thing there are many things you do, have or feel that they do not, so that one thing is not a reason to judge. As soon as you start seeing people for who they are rather than what they own or what their business card says the world becomes a much more balanced place.

Just try meditation for a while and it’ll soon allow you to see things as they are and remove a lot of the brainwashing/bullshit that we are brought up to believe by others who’ve been told the same.

Are people not able to think for themselves by now?

Yes, that’s precisiely the problem. People are thinking for themselves based on all sorts of flawed conditioning leading to ever increasing levels of depression and madness for a whole host of reasons.

If you don’t see that then you are part of the problem.

Having had my own issues over the course of the year, I understand what he means.

Not sure how far I have moved away from it all though. Think my list of shiney “wants” (that I will never probably have) has now become a mental notes of less shiney “that would be usefuls”

I’m thankful that I have not suffered with depression but know too many people who have or do 🙁 Thoughts are with all of you who’ve been or going through the mill.

Obree is right, of course. We’re conditioned to look up to the wealthy and those who get to the top in sport, business, entertainment etc. And to want to ‘succeed’.

But I don’t care. I’ve never wanted a career, a big house etc, and have drifted through fairly low paid but mostly enjoyable jobs, despite being told that I’m wasting my talent.

For me work is a means to an end, life is about happiness. Happiness can’t be found in shops (not even bike shops). If people look down on me for my rusty old car, my triple chainset or bargain basement lycra then that’s just their insecurity showing. I probably shouldn’t invest too much energy in that relationship. Real friends don’t do that.

A couple of worthwhile articles I read recently:
https://unbound.co.uk/books/you-are-what-you-dont/
http://optimumnutrition4sport.co.uk/2015/09/15/how-to-win-a-200km-ultra-doing-things-you-are-told-you-cant-do/

Good on you Simon
Wise words

Since going self employed last summer my earnings have taken a nose dive and my disposable income has also decreased massively. Strangely it is rather liberating; I’m no longer in a stressful but well paid job where I feel the need to compensate and define myself by always buying new stuff. Instead I’m doing something I enjoy and getting by on what I earn. For sure I would like to grow the business and earn more but only so I can have a bit of extra financial security, not to buy lots of shiny new things (I’ve realised I really don’t need them). I may be skint but my stress levels have decreased, and when I do get stressed its over stuff that truly matters not b8llsh*t conference calls and quarterly meetings.

I’ve come to the conclusion that if we try too hard to be happy then it gets further away, and the connected world makes it too easy to compare and assume that others are happier than us (even though they probably aren’t) but we strive

be comfortable in the ordinary, don’t cling to the happy too hard and apply the same to the unhappy because the ordinary will be back soon enough

The biggest lesson that I’ve learned from my depression and anxiety issues is that sometimes you need to accept that you cant control things. Sometimes it’s better to let people screw you over than let them destroy you.

Plus one for realising that life is largely outside of our control.

I think it’s important to try and work out ‘why’ you’d like something, be it a new house or whatever.

Right now my house feels a bit small and there isn’t greenery to see right outside, but a faintly scruffy street of terraced houses.

It’s not top of my list right now, to look into moving somewhere else, but within the next ten years perhaps, it’d be nice to move to a street with trees and greenery which I can see from the windows of my house, because they’re good for my spirit (and it’s what I grew up surrounded by too).

It wouldn’t be so I could feel I’d ‘made it’ or reached a certain level of status, because these things are illusory in the end.

Another (hopefully relevant) article worth a look:

No Stuff

Scroll down to “Why No Stuff?” for the key info.

@ TimothyD – I agree with the ‘why’. Positive goals are great. If moving makes you genuinely happier then do it soon, don’t let it be too long term or it may never actually happen.

I’m not the kind to take big financial risks, and being only 35, I’m hoping I’ll be able to move fairly painlessly by my mid 40’s, with sooner being desirable.

I tend to salt money away once I have a goal for it, so that’s next year’s plan, to start working towards making that happen.

Alan Watts had some great thoughts on life. I listen to this stuff often as it brain washes me closer to contentment. Actually I am very content but there are still some things I want in life but they are very rarely material things these days. It has been interesting over the last few years watching myself change for the better and watching those around me change for the worse. It’s quite sad really as I’m finding it more difficult to hang around with those folk and I am life long friends with them.

more alan watts

Replying here to say what a great thread and to make it easier to find later on via “forum activity.”

Battled depression most of my adult life.

Glad I did it but recently tried the whole “travel and see the world” type thing. A big regret in my mind at 47 as I never went abroad when I had the chances to.

It’s given me great memories which I regard as massively important in life. You are your memories. But….It in itself has not helped with depression.

I needed to prove to myself the old adage though, you take your problems with you. Indeed you do.

Obviously the problem is within me. I’ve always known that. The question now is what to try next. Believe me, I’ve tried most things over the years.

Biking, just thinking of it, helps me personally. Trouble is, physically I shouldn’t be riding a bike. Neurosurgery stuff. To give it up though…. Can’t deal with the thought of that yet. So will continue to mince around (on my old Marin! Lol) and try not to fall off.

Sorry to talk about me too much and good luck to all in the battle.

I can say one thing for certain though. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

There are 100’s of root causes for peoples depressions.

Materialistic life/society may be one of them and a move to a more buddhist existence may help that one (in fact a more buddhist existence would make most people more content but the capitalist runaway train will never allow it)

But for depression specifically it is not going to help a lot of people as their depression has nothing to do with that.

does anyone know someone who’s chucked it all in to live in a far more meagre but fulfilling manner and then decided to go back to work in an investment bank?

I know a bloke who was a teacher for 15 years then realised that he got no satisfaction from teaching at all as kids and parents were ungrateful at best and at worst hostile where he taught. When I met him he’d had 10 very successful years as a city trader and was looking at retirement at age 50. Obviously he didn’t have the money beforehand but he felt like teaching was his calling until he’d actually spent ages doing it.

But for depression specifically it is not going to help a lot of people as their depression has nothing to do with that.

Thats only partially correct. Depression can be brought on by the constant stress of chasing that material world, or the percieved never ending work schedule.

That Essentialism book referenced above and mindfulness is very good at showing how if you are able to remove yourself from that “chase” you gain much more time and headspace to do things with and appreciate yourself. Its very fulfilling to discover that removing the unnecessary mental anguish of not achieving competitive materialism reduces lots of stress and potential depression.

You don’t need to lead a buddihist life, you just need to be happy with the one you have, and focus on the singlular things that are important to you and do them well. I’m still learning this, but the small changes I’ve made have really helped me.

Thats only partially correct. Depression can be brought on by the constant stress of chasing that material world, or the percieved never ending work schedule.

Yes, I agree with that and stated it can be a factor, however what I was pointing out is that a lot of peoples depression has nothing to do with that.

Also, being content/happy is not the opposite of depression, you could be content in life but still have depression.

Also, being content/happy is not the opposite of depression, you could be content in life but still have depression.

Waves. Pretty healthy, good job, no money worries, fantastic wife, beautiful kids and pretty much suffered from depression all my life. Mostly around death of my parents when I was very young.

Bet most people here have scrawled a list of the components on their dream bike (or just the next n+1 one) when bored one day. Cycling is almost the perfect storm for that kinda stuff.

I’m in the thankful position where I can pretty much afford any bike I wanted, and have dabbled (suddenly realised I was commuting in winter on XTR kit once!). I could see how that could get out of hand. My best pal who I ride with is cash-strapped (though not particularly bothered about it) so we don’t have an arms race. Pretty basic bikes each (okay, I’ve got Centaur against his Veloce drivetrain) and we both mutually agree its the friendship/riding that is the point of it.

Depression is an awful thing, sometimes perspective is useful too for things. A lad a work always used to drive around in a fancy smart car, easy to get envious until we found out he couldn’t afford the petrol for it, never went out of pubs etc. Grass is often not as green on the other side and all that.

I’ve found defining your priorities does focus your requirements. Family (and to be fair a nice house – an appreciating asset if nothing else) is my focus now and things like job are means to an end. I’ve gone from a new car every couple of years, to running them into the ground.

I think more and more (MOAR!) people are coming round to the idea that less is usually more. I’ve been there and done that- chasing bigger, better, faster, shinier- to the point I was skint most months a week after pay day. Then I was made redundant 😀 Now I’m self-employed (we both are, my bf was made redundant a couple of years after I was), working from home, earning little but spending much less on shit we don’t need. We have an allotment. We can afford to buy nice food. Our (cheap, 11 year old) car is paid for, as are our bicycles and Chris’s motorcycle.

We have no debt. That, I think, is the important bit. If we can’t afford it we go without until we can afford it.

I think I still go through the odd bout of depression or lack of motivation to do anything from time to time, it maybe lasts a few days but a ride out usually helps counter it and I’ve recently found yoga is very good for my general well-being.

I think more and more (MOAR!) people are coming round to the idea that less is usually more.

In Western World I think so. In China, doesn’t look like it so far.

Problem is though, if the rich world stops consuming at the rate we have been, whilst the planet might avoid being destroyed, the economy will fall apart – UK at least is massively dependent on house-price and debt-driven consumer consumption. China will have to sell its stuff to itself if we’re not buying it, too

I don’t disagree, but I think it’s oversimplifying depression a bit. I’ve never been materialistic and chasing after expensive new things, apart from my bike perhaps. We live in a 2-up 2-down terrace with a small yard and I have a scruffy 11-year old car, and the smallest TV possible, you get my drift…. but I’m happy with all that. I have a great husband and family too.
I still get nasty episodes of depression though.

Take up running. It really helps. So I have heard.

The most free I ever felt was when I had to walk away from a crap relationship & start again with some pretty major debts. For two years I had very little, certainly couldn’t run a car. It taught me a valuable lesson in what really makes me happy. Like saving up newspaper tokens to take a nephew on a day out to Warwick Castle. 20yrs later he still talks about it.

Every so often I look back on those two years as having shaped me now.

I get the big D now & again. I think, if you’ve had a bout it never really leaves you. I sometimes sense a tiny bit of the mindset that can bring it on. This time of year does it for me. I hate it. But, I chuck myself into running my Scout group, plan some great things with the kids & before you know it the mood lifts.

Thoughts to all of you who get the big D.