Getting deposit back from builder after canceling

Would be good to get some clarity from the OP on the payment terms in this contract.

IT would be good to get some clarity on his moral compass…

It would be good to get some clarity generally.

You are taking the mick if you think it’s reasonable to ask for the 5% DEPOSIT back if you are cancelling the job – let along try to fight for it back.

Taking. The. Absolute. Mick.

Have a long hard look at yourself in the mirror! You are quite literally messing with somebody’s livelihood. Being self employed is not a walk in the park. Clients like you are the absolute bane of life. You should be apologising profusely and trying to find them another customer to fill the time they allocated to you!

Jog. On.

Well that escalated quickly.

Sorry I haven’t read all the above posts…but I have to admire your balls in even asking. Sorry if it’s a job loss or separation, but just chalk it up to a life learning lesson.

I have had a few requests for deposit release for change of mind villa bookings, 20th year of letting and none yet refunded.

Keeping the 5% is completely reasonable on a domestic extension or similar little job. I had to pay £100k just to get a main contractor to price and plan my current project, let alone the penalty clauses that will happen if we cancel or he’s late. £25k a week anyone?

would be good to get some clarity on his moral compass…

Irrelevant.

This is about legal rights.

OP could contact the FMB to ask what ‘reasonable’ mitigation they would expect a member to take in these circumstances – unless the FMB is now nothing more than a pay’n’display operation.
As for various comments about subbies – that risk sits entirely with the contractor; any attempt to withold money based on a claim that a subby walked is nothing other than sharp practice.
If the builder is any good he will have a full order book and OP’s cancellation is unlikely to have much effect; witholding the deposit is a try-on.

Well that escalated quickly

Didn’t it just – with little, if any, recognition of government guidance, client rights and a clear attempt by the builder to hold onto the deposit with spurious ‘justifications’.

No doubt the ‘noise’ will continue.

No doubt the ‘noise’ will continue

Yeah, yeah. Wah waaahhh. Another one. That’s 3 on here everyone now knows not to do business with.

As for various comments about subbies – that risk sits entirely with the contractor;

Hence taking a deposit to mitigate against the headache and cost of a cancelation?

We could go round in circles all day and I appreciate your angle, but we don’t really know enough. On the surface it looks to me as if the OP is being a bit of a Karen.

Anyone else wracking their brains to liken this situation to a current geopolitical goings on?

Anyone else wracking their brains to liken this situation to a current geopolitical goings on?

Errr no. Next question please. 😉

As the OP was now in contract with the builder he is subject to the terms of that contract

But the contract will be for the actual work that has been quoted for to be carried out. It’s not for any of the preamble that went into drawing up the quote in the first place – spending money on quoting and tendering for no return is just part of running a business.

Don’t get me wrong, I certainly don’t think the OP should be getting everything back just on a whim.
The question is what has the 5% been paid for?

All local tradesmen work with each other, talk to each other have business relationships. If you’re a dick about this, I expect you’ll be looking at a 50% deposit if you want to resurrect the project.

One of the last ones:

Legal advice please – cancelling a new car dispute

“Irrelevant.

This is about legal rights.”

Maybe in your world Frank….

I wonder how understanding the OP would be if the builder had changed his mind and didn’t want the job? I’m sure he’d be so very understanding, or on here asking how much he could sue the builder for.

It’s also interesting good see those members whose values don’t extend beyond pounds, shillings and pence, sorry, legal rights.

I’m going with Binners on this one.

Well, anyone can sue anyone else for anything they like. Whether they will succeed or not is a different kettle of fish.

his claim about subbies doesn’t stack up but managing/retaining subbies is his problem, not yours.

He is managing them.

All the talk of bring another project forward, haha. The subbies he needs for the future job that’s been brought forward probably aren’t available as they are booked up for a job that’s not been cancelled. The subbies he’s let go aren’t the right subbies for this easily movable job.

So he is managing them.

Jobs don’t move with no input or cost. As unorganised as a builder may look, there is still planning happening. Yes they are planner, project manger, procurement manager, lead builder, labour and tea boy; this leads to them looking unorganised at times but they are busy. Trying to make a profit, that dirty word half of STW thing nobody should make??

Also it has been asked but what was the value of the job? 100k gives 5k. Wouldn’t take us long to use 5k in what we do.

keeping the entire deposit without performing any work,

As I said in my first post he has performed work. He has started organising the job. This actually the key to being a successful builder, and how you make money, is in organising the job. You may also labour if you are skilled in one or more trades but really you are hiring a company to organise a construction project. Work starts long before someone is onsite.

When I read the topic title I assumed it was the builder that cancelled!

If the changed circumstances are beyond your control then it is an unfortunate situation but imo you shouldn’t pursue it further.

Your asking someone for £2k that they may well have spent thinking the job was a sure thing. It’s not right morally and I’d be amazed if you had any luck legally.

Is this going to be TOTW?

@sharkbait

Don’t get me wrong, I certainly don’t think the OP should be getting everything back just on a whim.
The question is what has the 5% been paid for?

This is the crux of it really.

Contractually, or prior to forming the contract, there was no mention of the deposit being non-refundable. Looking at the contract, the payment schedule is for certain milestones for work. The deposit is also to be offset against services/materials that are invoiced for. So far, there have been no invoices, and work is not scheduled to start for close to 3 months. I am struggling to see how the deposit paid so far has consumed any of the work that has already taken place given what I’ve been told.

Given that currently there is a lot of demand for their services, they could avoid loss of work. Given the materials shortage, they could not even incur a restocking fee from their supplier.

Again, I’m not unaware of how this looks to people criticising the decision. It is not one that’s been taken on a whim.

All local tradesmen work with each other, talk to each other have business relationships. If you’re a dick about this, I expect you’ll be looking at a 50% deposit if you want to resurrect the project.

I was going to mention that. Us self-employed and small business owners in any given industry, in any area, are an incestuous bunch. We all talk to each other and bad news travels fast regarding arsey customers

If you get shirty and go legal then good luck with getting any building work done in the future.

I’m sure that any future enquiries would have everyone saying they’re too busy but referring you to Gary, or ‘Dodgy Gary’ as they all call him, who will be handily available to start your job straight away

From what I can see you’re looking at work north of £50k which is possibly incurring CDM consequences so aside from sorting subbies etc there may well have been planning/activities associated with complying with that.

I think you’re taking the piss with asking for the deposit back however there is a general principle that costs should be mitigated by both parties. That said it would be fairly easy for the builder to demonstrate they have incurred 5% unmitigatable costs even now.

Contractually, or prior to forming the contract, there was no mention of the deposit being non-refundable.

The word deposit means non refundable, unless it’s referred to as refundable,in which case it shouldn’t really be called a deposit. Have you not been on this planet long?

The contract will define the terms under which you can cancel it, you really need to open your eyes and read stuff more carefully, don’t sign contracts and instruct someone to do work if you’re not certain it will go ahead. Or if you are not certain it will go ahead make sure that both parties are aware of this possibility and any contracts reflect it.just let this be a life lesson

The deposit is there so that you have skin in the game , to stop you from instructing someone to commence work (and incur costs – costs being direct and indirect ) and then changing your mind,leaving that someone in a tricky position.

If there was no deposit (and hence no financial commitment from you) you could go round wasting everyone’s time willy nilly, as you seem to want to do now.

Sorry but I don’t believe 3months is sufficient notice. Builders around here are booked months in advance. So he might get some smaller less profitable jobs to fill the time but he is legally entitled to offset lost profit from your job against the deposit (as I read the guidance previously posted).

I think this will come down to what you can prove and how good the solicitors are.

Contractually, or prior to forming the contract, there was no mention of the deposit being non-refundable

Was there any mention of it being refundable? And if not why on earth would you assume it was refundable when literally nobody else would think that ?

Edit

The word deposit means non refundable, unless it’s referred to as refundable,in which case it shouldn’t really be called a deposit. Have you not been on this planet long?

This

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Sorry but I don’t believe 3months is sufficient notice. Builders around here are booked months in advance. So he might get some smaller less profitable jobs to fill the time but he is legally entitled to offset lost profit from your job against the deposit (as I read the guidance previously posted).

This. It’s an opportunity cost to the builder: the difference between the OP’s cancelled project (and associated costs) and the jobs the builder can pick up instead. I suspect the 5% deposit would not cover it so perhaps the OP should think carefully before pursuing it.

I know I shouldn’t be, but I’m surprised by how extreme some of the views are with the pretty limited amount of information that the OP is willing to divulge.

Aidy
Free Member
I know I shouldn’t be, but I’m surprised by how extreme some of the views are with the pretty limited amount of information that the OP is willing to divulge.

Think there’s a lot of self employed who’ve been through this scenario on this thread!

Think there’s a lot of self employed who’ve been through this scenario on this thread!

Or people otherwise ‘in business’ who don’t appreciate being messed about by chancers.

I know I shouldn’t be, but I’m surprised by how extreme some of the views are

I’m constantly surprised by how a lot of grown adults seem to have so little comprehension of how the real world functions and/or how little consideration they have for the implications their actions have on others

In relation to people saying quoting for work is a cost of business, yes it is and it is factored into the cost of the jobs to claw it back.

Friend of mine worked out he spent 50 working days a year on providing quotes. Any employees about to give up 2 month’s pay?

I think if the builder looked into his time spent and booked every thinking minute related to your job and contracts of supply and service he may have planned in relation to it, equipment invested in for your job and his time to invoice this amendment you may have a larger figure owed.

I’m constantly surprised by how a lot of grown adults seem to have so little comprehension of how the real world functions and/or how little consideration they have for the implications their actions have on others

This is Binners’ grown up brother Shirley… 😀

I’m constantly surprised by how a lot of grown adults seem to have so little comprehension of how the real world functions and/or how little consideration they have for the implications their actions have on others

Unfortunately, I’m less surprised by that now.

At the point I’m paying a deposit, I consider that money spent…… ie: losing that money is the cost (to me) of cancellation. If the contract gives me a 14 day grace period on that, great, but it further demonstrates that the deposit is otherwise non-refundable (which I agree, is what the word “deposit” means).

My willingness to book the work will depend on the size of the deposit vs my certainty that the work is going to go ahead. The bigger the deposit, the more certain I will need to be that the work will go ahead.

If you feel that you have been genuinely ripped-off, then by all means pursue it – but I would say that you chance of success is about zero. It’s going to be relatively trivial for the builder to demonstrate 5% of “costs” incurred by him – and even if he falls short, then any amount that you are going to claw back is going to be offset by your time/energy/costs in doing so.

Chalk it up to a life lesson and move on, is my advice.

I wouldn’t have the gumption to chase them for a deposit refund, money spent in my view once you book a slot and commit to the job.

Might be a tone thing, but “gin palace” and “nice bike” did make me a bit less sympathetic to your predicament.

On a slightly smaller scale, our cat was booked into a cattery over the Christmas holidays. We paid a deposit, but she died and I had to cancel the booking. Did not even cross my mind to ask for it back, very surprised when they sent it anyway so donated it to charity and let them know. Think we won’t have problems using them in the future.

If you go the legal route, not sure you will have much joy with local builders taking on work 😉

Either the OP or the builder is misunderstanding the legal position. That’s not going to be resolved on an internet forum. The OP should just talk to a lawyer and see if they think it’s worth pursuing.