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  • Gaza
  • BillMC
    Full Member
    1
    somafunk
    Full Member

    link up there ^ is for this video by Peter Obourne below

    1
    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Bit by bit the Israeli government is losing control of the narrative. The latest development:

    A Historic Moment for Us’: Palestinians Take Unprecedented Seat at UN General Assembly

    https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/2024-09-11/ty-article/.premium/palestinians-take-unprecedented-seat-at-un-general-assembly/00000191-e0d0-d084-a5db-ebd6ee470000

    Clearly this is the direct result of the ongoing genocide which Netanyahu and his far-right government is overseeing in Gaza, and the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians.

    DrJ
    Full Member

    Apparently (report in Haaretz) the most moral army in the world are recruiting African asylum seekers to undertake dangerous missions in Gaza with the bribe of citizenship. You’ve got to wonder how much lower these people can actually sink.

    Still, I’m sure there’s some kind of UN statement on the matter.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-09-15/ty-article/.premium/israel-is-recruiting-asylum-seekers-for-war-effort-offering-promise-of-permanent-status/00000191-f1f9-da43-a1db-f9fb07cf0000

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Still, I’m sure there’s some kind of UN statement on the matter.

    Why would there be a statement from the UN? Recruiting foreigners to fight in your armed forces is perfectly legal under international law. France has been doing it for nearly 200 years with Foreign Legion and Britain even longer with the Gurkhas. And both use the suggestion that it will help with residency applications.

    Did you read the whole article btw? These are people who currently living in Israel as asylum seekers and they are being asked if they would like to join the military, they are not being forced. Is there any particular reason why asylum seekers living in Israel should not join the military but do other jobs instead?

    There are a whole lot of horrendous angles to the genocide which the IDF is currently committing in Gaza but I am not sure that their recruiting policies represent some of them.

    There is plenty of things to get genuinely outraged about because they do violate international law. This for example:

    But about 90% of Gaza’s 307 public school buildings and all 12 universities have been damaged or destroyed in Israeli attacks, according to the Education Cluster, a collection of aid groups led by Unicef and Save the Children.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/sep/15/gaza-children-school-year-education-israel-war

    DrJ
    Full Member

    Recruiting foreigners to fight in your armed forces is perfectly legal under international law. France has been doing it for nearly 200 years with Foreign Legion and Britain even longer with the Gurkhas. And both use the suggestion that it will help with residency applications.

    Worth bookmarking the post where Ernie justifies Israeli actions on the basis of behaviour of colonial powers. He’s wrong, of course – Gurkhas were not recruited from the asylum system to help out with genocide – but that’s another issue.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    I assume that you thought no one would read beyond the headlines because the article is behind a paywall? Or perhaps you didn’t read it yourself?

    The article makes clear that the example  they give was an asylum seeker who is legally working in Israel and was contacted by the military and asked if he would like to join. According to the article asylum seekers (of which there are apparently 30,000 living in Israel) often like to join the IDF because they believe that it will help them to quickly integrate into Israeli society.

    He initially said yes but then changed his mind at the last moment. Unsurprisingly the recruiting officer was annoyed by the last minute change of mind but nevertheless told the guy that offer would be left open for him.

    To allow him to carry on working at his job and not join a military is hardly coercion, especially when you consider that military service is compulsory for almost all Israelis including women.

    Maybe we should bookmark your post DrJ to remind ourselves how your heart apparently bleeds for young men who go to a genocidal apartheid regime, which is actively murdering innocent women and children, to claim asylum but want to leave the slaughtering to their hosts – presumably they don’t fancy possibly getting killed themselves.

    And perhaps to also remind ourselves that you will use any excuse to have a little dig at the United Nations.

    Btw despite your false claims France is not currently a colonial power, nevertheless the Foreign Legion (whose recruitment from desperate men is legendary although mostly false) are frontline troops and often the very first to be sent to a combat situation. Do you believe it would be appropriate for the UN to condemn France for this?

    Let’s not deviate from the horrors which are happening every day in Gaza and the West Bank to launch baseless attacks on the UN.

    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    Breaking news.

    Israel has attacked Hezbollah by targeting the pagers Hezbollah use for communications, leaving a reported 1000+ injured.

    The pagers suddenly exploded. Seemingly all of them simultaneously

    So it appears Israel has infiltrated the supply line these pagers to those people in an operation that must have taken years to set up.

    It’s like something out a SIFI novel

    1
    DrJ
    Full Member

    I’m sure the French Foreign Legion did something similar ?

    Another indiscriminate attack on civilians by the Most Moral Army.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/un-general-assembly-demands-israeli-pullout-from-palestinian-areas-within-12-months/

    Another day another step into Israel’s growing isolation.

    “Some 124 countries supported the measure, 14 opposed it”

    Even the UK and Germany (Israel’s second largest arms supplier) refused to oppose it. “Abstention” is now the best that Israel can hope for from some of its closest allies.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    It’s like something out a SIFI novel

    Walkie Talkies now. What next? Fax machines?

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    An interesting article here :

    It Is Not Hamas That Is Collapsing, but Israel

    https://archive.li/2024.09.02-222907/https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-09-03/ty-article-opinion/.premium/it-is-not-hamas-that-is-collapsing-but-israel/00000191-b3bf-dffe-abf9-bfffd0a50000

    If we continue fighting in Gaza by raiding and re-raiding the same targets, not only won’t we bring Hamas to collapse, but we’ll collapse ourselves. Not too long from now we will also be unable to carry out those repeated raids, because with every passing day the Israel Defense Forces grows weaker and the number of dead and wounded in action among our soldiers rises. Hamas, in contrast, has already replenished its ranks with 17- and 18-year-olds.

    IDF reservists are already voting through action, with many no longer consenting to being redrafted again and again. Conscripted soldiers are exhausted and are losing professional skills for lack of training; some leave courses before completing them. Israel’s economy, international relations and social cohesiveness are severely damaged by this war of attrition against both Hamas and Hezbollah, a war that will go on in the north and south so long as the Israeli military remains in Gaza. 

    In other words, the day will come when the IDF will no longer be able to remain in the Gaza Strip because Hamas will be in full control of it – both in the underground tunnel city that stretches hundreds of kilometers, and above ground. The number of tunnels the IDF destroyed amounts to just a few percent. The same is true for the tunnels under the Philadelphi and Netzarim corridors; Hamas is using them even now to push weapons from Sinai into the northern and southern sectors of the Gaza Strip. In this situation, the army is unable to defeat it and bring it to collapse.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Btw Gen Yitzhak Brik is someone who predicted the Hamas attack last year, which is more than Netanyahu apparently did, so I think it is fair to say that his opinions carry a certain amount of credibility and that he has a reasonable grip of his specialised subject.

    General Brik Predicted the October 7 Attack.

    https://www.uncaptured.media/p/general-brik-predicted-the-october

    Brik is a well-respected former general and decorated veteran of four wars, having been awarded a Medal of Courage for his part in the 1973 Yom Kippur war. However, in recent years, he had become known as a harsh critic of the preparation of the Israeli military and the Ministry of Defense against national security threats, which viewed Hamas as having been sufficiently deterred by repeated wars, most recently Operation Guardians of the Walls in 2021.

    As a Ministry of Defense ombudsman from 2008-2018, Brik spent his days observing Israeli army, navy and air force units, giving him deeper insight into the make up and condition of the armed forces than anyone else in the country. In 2017, he authored a report that warned of a variety of factors that rendered the military incapable of fighting a large-scale war.

    somafunk
    Full Member

    Makes a change from deliberately running over bodies with digger’s/bulldozers etc, they deem the Palestinians as subhuman and little more than vermin.

    vinnyeh
    Full Member

    Worthwhile listen/watch

    DrJ
    Full Member

    Apparently Netanyahu’s poll ratings have been going up since the assault on Lebanon. So it seems that stories of Israel’s demise were premature. Still. Democracy at work.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Britain’s most frantically pro-israeli newspaper doesn’t paint a very rosy picture of the current situation in Israel.

    War-fatigued Israel faces brain drain one year on from Hamas attack

    https://archive.li/2024.09.21-094412/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/09/21/how-israel-is-feeling-the-economic-pain-of-a-long-war/

    MSP
    Full Member

    oldmanmtb2
    Free Member

    America has been dragged into wars before, the French in Indochina sucked them into Vietnam.

    Ground invasion of Lebanon is Netanyahu trying to create a wider conflict and testing American resolve. Two problems the first is Hezbolla is about 40,000 strong and has substantial resources. The second is Hezbolla will be fighting in Lebanon to “protect” it. I don’t doubt the IDF is capable of beating Hezbolla but it will cost them a lot of young men and women, Israel will become fully ostracised by most of the Arab world and many other countries will follow.

    1
    chewkw
    Free Member

    Israel will become fully ostracised by most of the Arab world and many other countries will follow.

    They are not bothered about that because Israel has the most powerful nation (USA) and Europe to support them, hence they can do as they wish.  Nobody is coming to the aid of those middle eastern people. It looks like the creation of Greater Israel has started.

    somafunk
    Full Member

    Sadly very true ^

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    I don’t doubt the IDF is capable of beating Hezbollah

    They certainly stand no chance at all of beating Hezbollah, and don’t think that is even an Israeli stated aim.

    Hezbollah was specifically formed to drive the Israelis out of Southern Lebanon, a goal which they successfully achieved. Today Hezbollah are incomparably more powerful than they were then.

    What was definitely a stated Israeli aim though was the defeat of Hamas. And yet a year on, and despite throwing absolutely everything at Hamas, the Israeli government has not achieved its goal.

    Hezbollah is many times more powerful than Hamas. Netanyahu’s aim in expanding the war, in a way that on paper will be disastrous for Israel, is almost certainly to draw in US, UK, and French support. When Netanyahu provoked Iran to launch a drone and missile attack those three countries provided absolutely indispensable assistance to Israel.

    No doubt Netanyahu will expect the US and its allies to step in and stop Israel collapsing as he plunges it into an even deeper crisis.

    The real target I have no doubt is Iran. If the Israeli far-right can provoke and start a huge regional war involving the combined military power of Israel, the US, the UK, and France, against Iran, then they will no doubt conclude that it was worth.

    And to fair they have very limited possibilities if they are to salvage the zionist project, what other ways do they have to guarantee the safety and security of a country which has been, in effect, at war its entire existence, and is now facing the greatest threats that it has ever faced?

    Such a Middle East war would probably imo be the greatest war since WW2. And we all know from recent history in Afghanistan and Iraq how super powers can miscalculate what they can achieve against very much weaker foes. In the case of Iran it would be a huge and formidable foe. Which is of course why up until now the United States has not dreamt up an excuse to attack Iran.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    This is 6 months old but with the situation escalating it is probably good to be reminded by the Israeli historian, Ilan Pappe, how regimes such as the current far-right regime in Tel Aviv, become the most dangerous and cruel as they start to collapse and the end approaches.

    chewkw
    Free Member

    The real target I have no doubt is Iran. If the Israeli far-right can provoke and start a huge regional war involving the combined military power of Israel, the US, the UK, and France, against Iran, then they will no doubt conclude that it was worth.

    Iran has always been the target since they are the last hurdle to the creation of greater Israel. They have framed Iran as the axis long time ago and is waiting for the right moment to strike.   Iran is in a no win situation at the moment and can only take the beating given to them, because Israel knows that if Iran retaliates, they will be perceived as the state of religious fanatics attacking other democratic state, and that will warrant the intervention from USA and Europe.  Hence Israel has considered their strategy as win-win for themselves.  i.e. they can push back their enemy (Hezbollah) , create a buffer zones, take a break and wait for the right moment to expand again. Throughout the entire time Iran is prevented from taking action because the USA and European have guns pointing at them (Iran).

    Which is of course why up until now the United States has not dreamt up an excuse to attack Iran.

    In pubic USA cannot attack Iran even if they wish to because it would create a very bad publicity.  However, USA can still achieve the goal by  letting Israel do the baiting and the Israel knows that, hence all the talks about asking Israel to stop is merely for public consumption as hot air.  Deep down, Israel knows that they have been given the green light to expand.

    how regimes such as the current far-right regime in Tel Aviv, become the most dangerous and cruel as they start to collapse and the end approaches.

    No, they will not collapse.  In fact they will grow stronger once Israel is truly “threaten”.

    DrJ
    Full Member

    I’ve been off grid a few days. Just catching up with the news on Lebanon. Israel bombing children. US justifying it using the “it’s only brown people “ clause of the Human Rights Declaration. Did I miss anything?

    1
    dakuan
    Free Member

    Good podcast on the Lebabnon situation.

    https://www.ft.com/content/e34af689-70f9-4f4d-8aef-90fade4c4312

    TLDL; FT correspondent seems to think it’s in nobodies geopolitical interest for this to turn into a big war so it probably wont. It is in Netanyahus personal political interest tho, so it might get pushed uncomfortably far.

    ossify
    Full Member

    Some propaganda for you 😉

    https://x.com/IDF/status/1839251492655571063

    Interested in STW’s take on it though.

    Hypocrisy aside, let’s say everything in it is factually true. I have no reason whatsoever to disbelieve this. Does this allow Israel carte blanche to bomb the area flat? Or even to use precision weapons, knowing there’s children etc in the area? Of course not. I also have no idea what is the right way to deal with the situation…

    Edit: I also have no idea how to embed tweets…

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    . I have no reason whatsoever to disbelieve this.

    Really ? It is an IDF propaganda video !

    There is way too much nonsense to go through unpicking it all. There are some little gems though like the long-range cruise missile kept in someone’s flat! Or the fact that they have the nerve to quote an UN Resolution and talk about Israeli “restraint”.

    Of course Hezbollah don’t keep their massive arsenal of missiles in people’s homes, the IDF are doing what they do best in that video – lying.

    Everyone knows where Hezbollah keep their missiles – in the same place as Hamas does, deep in a network of tunnels. The major difference is that whilst Hamas dig their tunnels in sand and soil by hand and using materials smuggled into the tiny enclave, Hezbollah dig their tunnels out of solid rock deep in the mountains with sophisticated equipment.

    Why not one single mention of Hezbollah’s tunnels in that IDF propaganda video? I think the answer is obvious. Israel openly acknowledges that Hezbollah has hundreds of kilometres of deep tunnels built over several decades.

    1
    ernielynch
    Full Member

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Here is more detailed information about Hezbollah’s tunnels:

    Hezbollah’s tunnels and flexible command weather Israel’s deadly blows

    https://archive.li/2024.09.25-094655/https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hezbollahs-tunnels-flexible-command-weather-israels-deadly-blows-2024-09-25/

    The reason the IDF has been unable to defeat Hamas despite throwing everything at them for a year is because most of Hamas’s tunnels have remained intact, despite the IDF all over the surface of the tiny enclave.

    Hezbollah’s tunnels are far more formidable and they contain far more formidable weapons. All the recent Israeli attacks on Hezbollah will have had no effect on Hezbollah’s massive missile arsenal.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Btw the claim in the IDF video that it always tries to minimise civilian casualties is betrayed not just what it has done in the last year in Gaza but also by the fact that the IDF has been operating the Dahiya Doctrine since 2006.

    Ironically the Dahiya Doctrine is named after a district of Lebanon’s capital city:

    The doctrine is named after the Dahiya suburb of Beirut, where the Lebanese paramilitary group Hezbollah has its headquarters, which the Israeli military leveled during its assault on Lebanon in the summer of 2006 that killed nearly 1,000 civilians, about a third of them children, and caused enormous damage to the country’s civilian infrastructure, including power plants, sewage treatment plants, bridges, and port facilities.

    It was formulated by then-General Gadi Eisenkot when he was Chief of Northern Command. As he explained in 2008 referring to a future war on Lebanon: “What happened in the Dahiya quarter of Beirut in 2006 will happen in every village from which Israel is fired on… We will apply disproportionate force on it (village) and cause great damage and destruction there. From our standpoint, these are not civilian villages, they are military bases… This is not a recommendation. This is a plan. And it has been approved.” Eisenkot went on to become chief of the general staff of the Israeli military before retiring in 2019.

    https://imeu.org/article/the-dahiya-doctrine-and-israels-use-of-disproportionate-force

    The Dahiya Doctrine is of course illegal under international law and a war crime.

    More information here how Israel continues to apply the Dahiya Doctrine today here :

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/05/israel-disproportionate-force-tactic-infrastructure-economy-civilian-casualties

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    somafunk
    Full Member

    Some propaganda for you 😉

    Yeah no thanks, usual guff and utter bollox masquerading as truth from the most “moral” army in the world

    For an alternative view from a Gaza reconstructive surgeon

    https://x.com/ghassanabusitt1/status/1837494405839597951?s=61&t=27Xz8oI3pGlaNEQvowJBcg

    In the field of intensional mutilation Israel has always been a world-beater. 2018 – 20 it shot 8000 Palestinians in the lower limb with debilitating effect; it is responsible for the largest cohort of amputations in children in history in Gaza and this week over 3500 blinded and their hands mutilated in Lebanon. I think it’s when innovative spirit and bloodlust meet.

    Boat tours of the Gaza coast

    https://x.com/suppressednws/status/1837517314033328584?s=61&t=27Xz8oI3pGlaNEQvowJBcg

    So they’re offering boat tours in Israel off the coast of Gaza to watch it get bombed and to see the place where they plan to build new settlements?

    And if you wish to just how thunderfu*king ignorant and Islamophobic certain members of the US Senate can be you’d be hard pushed to better this

    https://x.com/notcapnamerica/status/1836225546600014261?s=61&t=27Xz8oI3pGlaNEQvowJBcg

    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    US,UK, France calling for a 3 week ceasefire in Lebanon.

    Why do I get the feeling thats less about finding a solution, and more about 3 of the worlds biggest arms dealers looking for time to get more military supplies into israel.

    If war does become a reality there, it might also be to allow the UK and US to bring in support in the form of aircraft, and arrange bases and supply lines in neighboring countries.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    It also allows for evacuation.

    argee
    Full Member

    Why do I get the feeling thats less about finding a solution, and more about 3 of the worlds biggest arms dealers looking for time to get more military supplies into israel.

    Israel isn’t doing anything they’re not stockpiled to carry out, the 3 week ceasefire will work against Israel and they know it, if they sign up to this, then at least it’ll show the US have some modicum of control over them.

    Last time Israel went into Lebanon they flustered, it’ll be no different this time, god knows what’s going on in their minds to attempt a land based attack on Lebanon with any real purpose.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Ceasefire rejected by both sides anyway. Unsurprising and utterly depressing.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Why do I get the feeling thats less about finding a solution, and more about 3 of the worlds biggest arms dealers looking for time to get more military supplies into israel.

    Why would Lebanon be any less capable of doing this?

    somafunk
    Full Member

    Another $8.7bn of “military aid” to be delivered, but a ceasefire is close……..after 11 months of negotiations I’m sure it’ll happen soon

    From BBC

    Israel secures $8.7bn US military aid packagepublished at 18:28 British Summer Time
    18:28 BST
    Israel’s Ministry of Defense (IMoD) has announced it has secured an $8.7bn (£6.5bn) US aid package to support its current military campaigns.

    In a statement, IMoD says the package includes $3.5bn for “essential wartime procurement”, which has already been transferred, and $5.2bn for air defence systems such as the Iron Dome, David’s Sling and an advanced laser system.

    IMoD adds that negotiating this package underscores the US government’s “ironclad commitment to Israel’s security”, particularly in addressing “regional security threats from Iran and Iranian-backed militias by ensuring Israel’s overall capabilities”.

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