[Closed] further to the scrote story

get your daughter to sneak laxatives into the girls drink so she's too busy shitting herself 😀 (im being serious)

Got all this to come. With lads its different though isnt it? You just have to say confront it head on yourself with lads.

See how things go with the agencies involved. I work in education (and health, safety and welfare) and its worth pointing out to the headmaster that you are aware that the safeguarding element of the ofsted system is a LIMITING GRADE and as such they need to make a conclusive action sooner rather than later if they are serious about retaining their performance grade.

if you want extra info on this then pm me

On the other hand my wife was bullied horribly at school (being the only english kid in a scottish school) and it only stopped when she hospitalised the bully with a house brick.

I really do sympathise with the situation but there are no 'other centres' for students to got to and it's not just a case of schools being skint, (which they are!), the systems in place do not facilitate proper sanctions for students who will not behave in a civilised fashion.

The school should, of course, have contacted home after a serious incident but beyond that what do they do? There are no special schools anymore, there is a focus on schools to retain kids at almost all costs - example - Knowsley, one of the most deprived boroughs in Britain has an exclusion quota of 5 students per year for all schools. Where do we put these anti social students? We can't isolate them, we can't exclude them, what do we do?

Schools are in the situation of 'managing' anti social students behaviour instead of dignifying them with correction and socialising them. Good students suffer, teachers suffer, the anti social remain anti social and to top it all off schools fail if the are full of naughty kids hat hey're not allowed to do anything about!

The system is screwed and until we get a political agenda in education with a backbone horrible situations like this will continue to exist.

LOL at the tag.

there are no 'other centres' for students to got to and it's not just a case of schools being skint, (which they are!), the systems in place do not facilitate proper sanctions for students who will not behave in a civilised fashion.

Monkeeknutz I'm sorry but that's not true.
I and my colleagues (at the time) used to run projects which did exactly that. We looked after the "disaffected" students who were unlikely to sit any exams but were too young to leave school. They were causing all types of problems to themselves, other students and teachers but the school did not or could not expel them, except for the seriously troubled ones.
I looked after between 10 and 20 students. Technically they were in school but they were not there very often and I monitored them daily.

Once the child is in school, the school has a legal obligation to look after that child.

There is a national orgaanisation called http://www.connexions-direct.com their office is next door to mine and I just had a word with someone there.

They work with both disadvantaged kids but also provide advice for all children from 13-19 on various topics. I'm told that they often get involved in situations such as yours and there will be a nominated person looking after your daughters school. Might be worth giving them a call?

What that school really needs is a 40k PA for the Headmaster so he can concentrate all his energies on problem children.

I'm not sure if I would have shown as much restraint as the OP but to be honest at this stage I would be visiting the girls Father.
He played by the rules and kept calm and look what happended.

At this point I would be taking action into my own hands. I don't necassarily mean violence but something needs to be done.
If the Father is an account then I'd be finding out where he worked and showing up one day to cause a fuss in front of his employers. Let him know that your visits to his work will not stop until he controls his child.

....Today scrote assaulted my daughter again, pulled out clumps of her hair, punched her, pushed her into a hedge in a totally unprovoked attack which had been threatened for the last few weeks. A teacher was present and was assaulted and injured attempting to protect her...... Scrote also came at me when i was at the school

The girl sounds as though she is seriously disturbed and should not be in a place where she can harm others, teachers or pupils.

Surely the teachers can't be happy that this girl is still in school

it's being raised at board of govs meeting today, PC has been TOLD that it is for the CPS to decide the charge, not him, scrote being questioned at station now, word is being spread in scrotes village that victims dad (me) has very sinister connections, which I do, but won't utilise - yet.

daughter came home from school this morning as she was getting so much hassle from kids wanting the story and to see her injuries. wanted to just get on with her revision.

i'm writing Daily Mail style letters for ofsted and LEA

teachers even stood by when scrote came at me. teachers are afraid apart from the one who took it hard protecting her.

2 days exclusion was on LEA advice, but is suspect the school didn't give them the whole story

i love the smell of vengence in the afternoon

I've just been given this websirte www.cybermentors.org.uk which you may find useful..

Everyone thinks you have sinister connections when in reality you have a bike named one 😀
[img] [/img]

I hope you don't think I'm your sinister connection.

I'm right-handed.

no BJ, i know people, who know people, who are bigger and scarier than us both but who happen to like me. but they're also smart and leave no trace

Now that's what I call big and scary.

Hope it works out.

no BJ, i know people, who know people, who are bigger and scarier than us both but who happen to like me. but they're also smart and leave no trace

Apart from the internet forums saying you're employing the favours of big scary people 😀

I was going to suggest writing to board of Governors, but seems that matter is in hand, as there are protocols and they have a duty to investigate and they will have a sub committee that will launch an investigation, I would also write to your MP & the Commissionaire for children as he/she has powers to make everyone jump to it. Also local press, just carry on make a big fuss, in a calm & rational fashion.

Hope all turns out well for you.

iDave - don't send any correspondence to the press; you do not want to prejudice any action you or others may bring against the sctrote, her parents, school, LEA, police etc.

Do everything above board and never, ever take no for an answer. Hassle, hassle and hassle more. Phone up the headteacher hourly for informaiton, updates and an answer as to what they are going to do. Do the same with the police, LEA, and school governors. Demand to attend all meetings any of them are having, and generally make yourself such a polite but firm PITA that they will act fast and soon.

But do threaten that you will make all of this and the individual failings on named people known to the local and national press. For every person you speak to, find out who their superior is. Hassle said superior twice as often as you hasle the individuals.

Make this problem their problem.

(And do not, whatever you do, resort to violence (and that includes any threats of it) - you don't need to; you have right on your side).

[quoteiDave - don't send any correspondence to the press; you do not want to prejudice any action you or others may bring against the sctrote, her parents, school, LEA, police etc

Good point!

good call on the press, that was for later, but yeah, need to see what inaction happens first.

cking - i didn't not say nothing about having recruited no scary people. you're assuming...

iDave - do you have a NI accent ? If so then deploy it well, that should help spread some rumours of "connections" 😆

Norn Iron connections - implying their tibias will no longer have any connections to their femurs?

I've been trying to find this link for the last few days...
[url= http://www.b3ta.com/questions/bullies/ ]BT3A QOTW forum.[/url]

scroll down the page to the one entitled Controlling bullies.

Could always try that???

You just have to say confront it head on yourself with lads.

Roper - Centres for the seriously disaffected students are few and far between, and I'm afraid to say it but what the girl has done would not get her into one of those referral units, she could go for doing it 10 or 15 times and that might work.

You're absolutely right that each school has a duty to care for the students but the school's hands are very often tied. Students we've managed to get into referral units for a maximum of 8 weeks are serial brawlers, both staff and students, committed racists or guilty of sexual assault. I think criminal charges should be brought but there simply isn't the political will, locally or nationally

As to your comment that she sounds seriously disturbed I think you're a little naive - our school has retained for 5 years a boy who tried to cut of a dog's head with a spade and broke his hand punching walls when frustrated a girl who cut her lips with a razor blade as 'lipstick', a boy who crapped on desks termly as a dirty protest.. I could go on. In each case we tried to remove them to some kind of additional support for he safety of others or themselves and in each case they were back within a month or never left because here aren't he spaces to house them.

Alternative educational provision in England is appalling and comprehensives like the one I teach in are left carrying the can - it's very frustrating.

Monkeeknutz, I do agree that is very difficult for teachers. The reason I was employed to work in the school I did was to help the problem students which in tern gave the teachers more time to attend to the rest of their classes.

My post was initially responding to your comment

"All this 'give the school a hard time' stuff is just rubbish! What would you like the school to do? They can't exclude, they can't expel, and they can't even issue a ruddy detention now without the consequences from gobby parents along the lines of "My little Tyrone doesn't do detention."

The school is responsible if the trouble is happening during school time. The school can contact the police, parents or guardians, social workers and other independent workers like I was. It has a legal and moral requirement to look after all of its students in its care.
In my opinion if the school is not doing this then it is failing and the LEA is failing. This does not mean the school is condemned but it may need to be shown how to work with problem children or it needs to rethink how it deals with such students now. To suggest that its hands are tied is unacceptable.

On the last part of you post, I don't think I did comment that "she sounds seriously disturbed"? I also don't like to comment about the individual cases of students I worked with but the examples you gave are not unusual. I will say that while I could not juststify any of the behaviour the girl has reportedly done in the OP, after working with some children who really have been through the worst society or individuals can inflict on them, I am hardly surprised they might not have much of a grasp on how people are supposed to behave.

I’m not suggesting the girl in the OP is one of those students but hopefully some of the steps iDave is taking might help her too.

Monkeenut -Is the school you work in is failing in its duty towards the children in its care - both the disruptive ones and the non disruptive ones?

Other schools manage to deal with problem children without abdicating their responsibilities.

Sounds like weak management to me

police are passing it back to the school and won't get more involved - watch this space though. they won't take statements from any of the other (12) witnesses, including the teacher who was assaulted. they continually dilute the assault referring to hair being pulled rather than hair pulled out in clumps. PC hung up on me when i questioned the integrity of the investigation.

thankfully a chief inspector is going to stick his oar in tomorrow for me - but it shouldn't be like that. my daughter now thinks the police are useless and can't be trusted and i'm not going to try and say otherwise.

and yes i do have a northern ireland accent and i'm not afraid to use it, so i'm not.

Tiocfaidh ár lá

Hang tough Dave. I 'may' have a beer with senior copper over the weekend, sadly he's only responsible for Staffs....rather than ..i'll jog him up, see how he see's it

ok, would appreciate hearing what they think - I'll be in the station in the morning expecting answers.

my daughter now thinks the police are useless and can't be trusted

Not just your Daughter!

Some black people nearby were always getting heckled, punched and brick through the window till their mates showed up in force and kicked the hell out of the racists. I don't beleive in violence but sometimes Ghandi is wrong.

Police came out then but never heard of bullying again in that street.

it's ramping up nicely, pc has been taken off it, someone else is on it, they're getting all the witness statements, scrote has been properly expelled and questioned under caution.

shame it took some phone calls from high up in the force......

finally feeling like someone other than us gives a shit

Hooray! Sounds like things are finally improving 🙂

Do Pupil Referral Units not exist any more then?

it's ramping up nicely, pc has been taken off it, someone else is on it, they're getting all the witness statements, scrote has been properly expelled and questioned under caution.

Now you're getting somewhere, but you still need to keep hassling all the agencies* involved to ensure that they keep the momentum up.

Best of luck with it.

*where did this phrase come from? It's like calling school pupils "students". Since when did kids in a classroom "study" anything? Nonsense.

iDave, your account of all this is harrowing, but I really do think you have handled it with great maturity and hopefully it looks like you are now getting a proper result.

I dread to be in your situation, I have 2 daughters myself.

Good on you mate and I hope your girl gets over it quick.

Hurray!:D

really glad you're getting some results

Pleased it has gone well for you, well done at keeping cool, although you should not have had to take this all on yourself, she school and the copper need a talking to

Chris

Blimming heck what a right carry on!! But things look a bit more rosey and I hope you get it all sorted out soon. Bullies make my urine boil.

Ah thats brilliant news!

Just goes to show that both the Police and the School are management hierarchies (sorry sounds bollocks but cant think to say it any other way on a fri night) just like anywhere else, and so you just need to work out where apply your attention. Well done iDave. Glad you have made progress, and also your familly has kept its dignity 😀

That's good news. As you said, shame it couldn't happen like this first time round but you've got things moving and been incredibly reasonable doing it. Nice one 🙂 Hope your daughter feels a bit better about things now.

teachers even stood by when scrote came at me. teachers are afraid apart from the one who took it hard protecting her.

Teachers are always getting sued by parents for stopping fights-its rediculous. I had to be a witness as a teacher pulled off a 15yr old kicking the head of battered teen on floor only for the 15 yr bring theor parents into school who didn't want to know.

Some kidshave probs but why leave them in a class halting the progress of normal kids? Kick the little toads out of school and get them working cleaning toilets. Hope Cameron does bring back power to schools.

Good on you IDAVE!

I hope it's not too early to say well done. Wouldn't want to curse the progress.

don't think i can say much more for a while, things are moving along. i can honestly say having heard all that has gone on (4 hours of statement) that there are about 6 young women in this town I'd happily beat senseless, not that I can. they're heartless, evil, destructive scum.

No need for it, is there?

but they choose their actions and must take responsibility instead of blaming other people for their problems.

One day your Daughter will drive past her in a new car etc and the scrote will be on the dole or in prison.

The trouble is when they are on the dole or in prison the rest of us pay for it.

my daughter will more likely be the surgeon doing scrote's lung cancer surgery

more hassle today, scrote trying to find daughters house and go round with 6 lads

which i'd enjoy if i actually lived there and was there when they arrived. But it just meant another call to plod

When I suggested eradication of problems such as this it was frowned on by the moderators.Seriously though what do we do with people who are like this?

has anyone suggestted a STW outing to go visit said scrote. I'm sure theres a few of us who'd be up for it!!!!

iDave - please no offense intended to you - you have dealt with adifficult situation as well as any of us would hope to

edric - firstly look at why people become like this. Then put in the resources and efforts t stop them being like this.

it will probably be tied up with bad parenting and possibly abuse, low self esteem, that sort of issue. It will be multifactorial and difficult. Am ingrained culture is a hard thing to break.

the main problem is that the things that need to happen for that person to be able to take a reasonable place in society don't play well with the hang 'em and flog em and don't waste your money "Daily Wail" brigade - and especially not those who believe in violence as the answer.

It is expensive and hard to do - but can be done with the political wiill. Lots of stuff on this out there if you want to learn.

Calling them scum and wanting to shoot them whilst an understandable reaction does not provide a solution. Solutions take time money and effort but turning an antisocial asshat into a decent member of society is actually well worth the price as long term it saves money.

it will probably be tied up with bad parenting and possibly abuse, low self esteem, that sort of issue. It will be multifactorial and difficult. Am ingrained culture is a hard thing to break.

True.

Calling them scum and wanting to shoot them whilst an understandable reaction does not provide a solution. Solutions take time money and effort but turning an antisocial asshat into a decent member of society is actually well worth the price as long term it saves money.

I hate to admit it, but he does have a point...

it will probably be tied up with bad parenting and possibly abuse, low self esteem, that sort of issue. It will be multifactorial and difficult. Am ingrained culture is a hard thing to break.

I have to agree, when I was in school some 25-30 years ago, a girl in my year hit a teacher. What does that girl, who is now probably a parent, think is acceptable behaviour?

Good luck iDave

How do you break the culture of several generations of ****less loutish behaviour though.Dad was a teacher for years and said in some schools this attitude and behaviour is almost endemic.Whilst we spend money sorting out the problem people who thinks about the good well behaved kids. Do they get rewarded with trips to Alton Towers and free i pods as well?

Edric 64 - Member

How do you break the culture of several generations of ****less loutish behaviour though.

By kicking them up the ar5e, but modern day liberalisation won't allow you!

I know but I risk a ban if I spout off again!!

How do you break the culture of several generations of ****less loutish behaviour though.

Surestart was set out to do just that, but unfortunately it suffered mission creep to the point of becoming something entirely different.

The big issue is self selection - you cannot compel parents to bring their kids to Surestart, and so you end up with mainly the interested parents bringing their kids in, rather than the disinterested ones you're hoping to target.

I suspect that ultimately there is a massive suite of changes that need to be made - you need to actually incentivise learning and hard work, and for that to happen we need increased social mobility. Or some serious state intervention in people's parenting of their children, but that's something I think would be rather ugly.

TandemJeremy - Member

the main problem is that the things that need to happen for that person to be able to take a reasonable place in society don't play well with the hang 'em and flog em and don't waste your money "Daily Wail" brigade - and especially not those who believe in violence as the answer.

....... Edric 64 - Member
............Whilst we spend money sorting out the problem people who thinks about the good well behaved kids. Do they get rewarded with trips to Alton Towers and free i pods as well?

don simon - Member

By kicking them up the ar5e, but modern day liberalisation won't allow you!

Yes TJ all well and good but many problem kids have been pandered to and it has not helped improve their attitude or self esteem
Would some form of not National Service but maybe Pioneer Corp work, whereby community projects get worked on to encourage team building and friendship whilst respecting a chain of command but in a military type environment?

I guess ( and its not really my field) Something along the lines of a pioneer corps could be a part of the answer. Got to draw a very careful line on disciple between harsh and slack I imagine.

Or better still, intervene early and alter cultures so that we avoid having to deal with kids with deep rooted problems as far as possible. At the moment people can treat their kids pretty horrendously for quite a while before someone will intervene, particularly if the man of the house is the sort to appear at the front door telling all and sundry to eff off.

Agree it needs to be constructive.Have you seen the article I think there is a programme as well where a girl took three bad lads sailing in the Carribean and by the end they had seen the error of their ways and have now come home and started to get their lives sorted?

Nursery and schooling can help but the parents really need to be involved and educated as well otherwise the good work done at nursery and in school is undone a soon as the child goes home

How do you break the culture of several generations of ****less loutish behaviour though.

Now if I suggested that the mods would have me .Having said that Ghandi tried it in India in exchange for a radio so upgrade to an ipod and you may have a deal!

I love reading what people who dont work in this area think. TJ you are correct but no amount of professional intervention works - what can we do in a few hours that combats everything that happens at home? The positive stuff people get is more likely to be a trip bowling than an Ipod or expensive foreign holiday. It also tends to be failry effective in terms of retention and more importantly redusing offending and stopping it escalting to more serious offences.
Sadly a number of our young citizens are just sh1ts who dont really respect anything, including themselves. They tend to hang with like minded individuals and all attend YOT - probation for young people - on mass and their lack of care for this is obvious.
Sure start is again a good idea but again what can we do to make a bad parent a good one? Go down the park and witness it today. Today I saw a guy asking his 3- 4 year old where her f@cking shoes were and why the f@ck could she not wear them - he had just got up from his spliff and special brew - about 10 adults 20 + kids - to make this point. I dont really see what the state can do to prevent this sadly. - 20 years in social services, teaching and variety of youth work intervention type work.
The treat them like sh1t punish them or kick up the rear really does not work. Research shows that the best factor is the presence of a life long positive adult - does not need to be parent hence the increasing interest in community mentors but not popular as a bit wolly to sel this to Daily Mail types despite the evidence base.
Some of these young kids really are unpleasnt , uncaring amoral asshats - yes they have reasons for this but they also have to be held, to varying degrees , culpable and responsible for their own behaviour. So do there parents but there is no magic wand whether you use a fluffy liberal one or a brutal nail spiked one.

From my experience as a mum of 2 (now adult) kids who attended a 'mixed' school. Many children have parents who have no expectations of them and actually don't know how to 'parent'.

My son's year had a particularly bad, aggressive, hardcore group of lads from these families. Their PE Teacher was brilliant, he encouraged them to play rugby. They learned how to work as a team, they actually had people saying positive things to them and praising them. Eventually they reached a County championship and they were so proud. They felt valued.

But they still go back to their 'normal' lives. Subsequently, some have ended up in Borstal, trouble with the Police etc etc. I just don't feel there is much hope for them unless they are removed from that environment.

I honestly believe that sport should play an important part in childrens lives - so many of life's lessons can be learned. I've been involved in voluntary coaching both at school and at an athletic club but, at the end of the day, the attendees do not fall into the 'problem' category.

Self-esteem is a hugely important subject and it really does need addressing.

Junkyard - interesting to hear it from your perspective, although it does sadden me. So many people don't reach their potential so is this where 'community mentors' come in? Would certainly like to hear how this works.

PC called round, he gave the impression that scrote parents were decent people at the end of their tether. they have agreed to keep her at home. will see what she instructs her hordes to do. i have lost compassion for people like her. she makes bad choices. she'll have to deal with it. they have an apocalypse hanging over them which will descend like a legion of demons if anyone lays a finger on my girl again. the law will deal with the first 2 assaults, i'll deal with the next one.

also daughter is fired up in full banshee mode. she'll fight back hard next time. obviously i really hope there isn't a next time though.

iDave, repeated good lucks your way.

this sort of thing makes my P*ss boil..what worries me is your daughter, in defending herself, beats 7 shades out of the scrote, and then finds herself in serious trouble.