the guy who used to sit next to me in the office is now at home doing nothing

…..doing nothing except worrying about making ends meet?

I was furloughed yesterday along with quite a lot of others, on a group Teams call. We finish this afternoon.

Yes it’s great that there’s the scheme, but it doesn’t take away from the human factors – personally we’re OK as we’re not highly leveraged as a family in terms of debt etc, but I’d be lying if I said it didn’t hurt to effectively be told “you and your family take the hit for the greater good”. And I know from talking to many younger colleagues that it’s going to put them in tough financial positions as there’s very little notice to allow for financial planning.

Are those that have actually had their pay reduced agreed to the reduction, as it does consitutue a change in contract. The rule on Furlough is that it is a capped subsidy to the company you work for and not what that the gv are paying you. The company make up the balance! If they dont/cant make up the blance they have to ask you for a reduction in pay and you have to agree to that in writing. If you don’t, then you are not legally/contractually obliged to, however you run the risk of being made redundant legally through lack of funds.

The higher mangement types, are generally being asked to a cut (again this has to be aggred) as the difference on furlough is too great to make it it a worthwhile option, you end up paying a lot of money for someone to sit on their backsides, so ask them to take a cut and keep them working. Again, the employeee can agree to a cut, but it has to be in writing.

As for the profit vs wages argument. It’s tricky – is it a private copany or is it a PE affair/share holders. If you remove cash from a company you jeopordise the long term propsects of the company to keep going. Also, Profit does not = liquid cash. On the flip side, if you got £2m of cash sitting their but due a big load repayment in 4-5 months time, why would you not say the banks etc can wait – long term survival of the company is generally the answer..

It’s a mess, but any alternative would have been, so it’s hard to see a better way around that could have been put together so quickly. My team runs the company’s pension (and death benefits) scheme, so CV19 does not reduce our workload – we’ve still got 12,000 pensioners to pay, and we’ll probably have a spike in deaths, so actually more work. The business however is running c20% of its usual service (for c15% revenue) so have furloughed 4 of our 6 administrators because of cash flow. I’m our systems, procedures and legal specialist, so it’s a steep learning curve to pick up that slack.
I did mention the problem of justifying full time work for 100% vs do nothing and still get 80%, particularly when they said those not furloughed would lose any untaken holidays.
Management in most companies, I suspect, are trying to implement this reasonably while not losing sight of finding a path to keep the business viable.

is this the thread for contractor furlough info too, or should I start another?

The company I work form have let all contractors go, and our Agency is being as much use as a chocolate teapot about the contractor furlough scheme. They keep saying they don’t have the full info to move us onto it… are there any agency’s implement it?

If they dont/cant make up the blance they have to ask you for a reduction in pay and you have to agree to that in writing. If you don’t, then you are not legally/contractually obliged to, however you run the risk of being made redundant legally through lack of funds.

I dont see it as optional. There is always the veiled threat of redundancy.

I dont see it as optional. There is always the veiled threat of redundancy.

i don’t disagree with you at all, im in exactly the same boat, but it’s just a point that everyone should be very aware of.

Sui
Member

Are those that have actually had their pay reduced agreed to the reduction, as it does consitutue a change in contract

Not necessarily if your contract has a short-time working or lay off clause, mine does.

the guy who used to sit next to me in the office is now at home doing nothing

We have put people on furlough and we were going to top salaries up to 100% of annual average (to take account of commissions and bonuses) regardless of salary level but decided to keep it at 90% to allow a difference between those working and those not. Many people will be better off at 90% without commuting but everyone’s situation is different. I am flat out which is great but I really would rather have work to do than not. It will not be easy for people on furlough.

Doesn’t quite seem fair when most others in the company are furloughed so getting 80% salary and don’t have to work. Whereas I get 80% salary but still have to work four days a week.

Wait until you find out the people who are furloughed get the bank holidays as additional annual leave as they aren’t able to ‘take’ them when on furlough

And if you’re working a 4 day week for that pay cut, your holiday entitlement is likely to be pro-rata’d.

My concern is, where a company furloughs staff and they agree to the 80% of salary in lieu of full pay what happens a few months down the line and the company decides to make them redundant, will they use their original salary or the 80%?

As I understand it, making up the 20% is optional. It seems wide open to abuse though. Paticularly with working for cash and claiming type fraud,

Is anyone else on here on a zero hour contract and furloughed?

Our pay seems to be worked out the same as holiday pay on a rolling 13 week basis. I’ve had to have time off (unpaid) because of my Dad so my total hours are short. My furlough rate come out to about 70%, can they do that or should it just be a flat 80% of contracted hours?

Edit

Found the answer Martin Lewis

I’ve had two payrises in the last year so looks like it’s on the lower rate, **** sake

It should be based on the higher of monthly pay when you were furloughed, pay for the same month in a previous year or average monthly pay in 2019/20. And it’s on declared gross pay, so might be lower than you expect if you’re in any pay sacrifice arrangement.

Didn’t get furloughed how ever some of our guys did with tomorrow being that 45 days to end of furlough I see there being a lot of redundancies flying about ….45 days being the consultation if more than 50 being let go.

We were told this morning letters will arrive over the weekend to those effected.

Marvellous.

Reading between the lines of a few of my acquaintances and one definite example….

There seem to be more than a few companies who are ‘furloughing’ employees whilst actually getting them to work as normal. I mean, how is anyone going to be able to police this properly during and especially after?

A very common mantra I have been repeating about lots of things lately:

“Everyone plays nice…… until there is money involved”.

Asking for a friend, say they get a basic wage, plus shift allowance plus a percentage for attendance records, good sick record, is the 80% based on basic wage or the actual gross wage.

They have been told basic wage, so 80% of basic wage is much less than 80% of normal gross wage? They are due for 1st payment next week.

I’ve just been informed I’m being furloughed from end of next week. Making up to full pay for now so not so bad. I’ve been working at home for the last four weeks and apparently my remote access will be revoked to prove I’m not actually working.

Not furloughed but working a 4 day week from Monday, until the 5th June. Other people doing the same job have been furloughed so there’s a good chance it’ll come when work dies up even more.

Furloughed today for three weeks.

Well due to the only colleague who wasn’t Furloughed in my department being unable to satisfactorally work from home and refusing to come into the office I’m coming off Furlough and back into work on Monday. Not massively happy about going in but it’s a big office and there’s only about 5 people out of about 50 in so we are well separated.

It is my 4th week on furlough, I’m paid weekly and got 80% of my basic wage on the first week and every week after that.iv taken a fair hit as my basic is pretty poor but I make wages up by extra hours and a productivity bonus. But as I see it we have no cars to run apart from shopping trip we aren’t socialising eating out stuff like that 3 kids not being taken to clubs so on the whole we can batten down the hatches and get on with it.

Son2 is home and furloughed. There are no passengers at Heathrow, so not a lot of security officers required. He’s on 80% salary, and home studying and lifting things in the garage. He is in the fortunate position that all his salary is being saved for pilot training.

Heathrow has a cash pile of 18mo turnover, it’s not as if they could not have afforded to pay him, regardless. When it reopens, they will need their qualified officers back, so I doubt any redundancies.

There seem to be more than a few companies who are ‘furloughing’ employees whilst actually getting them to work as normal. I mean, how is anyone going to be able to police this properly during and especially after?

The T’s & C’s suggest that HMRC can ask for it all back on auditing. Power consumption will do for the big boys, you can’t hide that and the accounts will show what’s been paid for energy use. The inspectors can also ask the supplier for the bill.

We’ve all just been informed that we are going to have to take an 8% interim pay cut and that in conjunction with shift allowance being cut means that you’ll actually been no better off or even financially worse off than those that have been furloughed.

That cant be right,?

I have no idea if I’m being furloughed. Or if I have a job. Or if I have a job, how long for.
Zero communication from work apart from a random phonecall form my boss once every 20 days or so saying they don’t know what’s going on with the business, if they can pay me, if they can furlough me, if they need me to do any work etc etc Though I did get asked to write up notes on everything I was working on just before lockdown.
Kind of weird since I am the main top-level administrator for our Office 365 set up. But supposedly everything is working OK. I did tell them that the security policies weren’t all activated yet, but somehow that’s not important?

Payday on Monday, so lets see what happens.

Dumbot.

Surely those furloughed will then be on 80% of wage – 8% – shift allowance.?

I think I’m approaching 4 weeks of being furloughed, the days are just blending together now.

I know some guys were upset when the first batch of us were furloughed, seeing it as they were working for pittance while we got 80% for going home. And where I’m sure we can get by on the 80% it’s the not knowing what’s going to happen after the payments stop.

We’ve all just been informed that we are going to have to take an 8% interim pay cut and that in conjunction with shift allowance being cut means that you’ll actually been no better off or even financially worse off than those that have been furloughed.

That cant be right,?

Depressingly so. We (pilots) have taken a 50% paycut while the rest of the company stays at home and is paid 80% + per diems. I can understand the 80% (top-up by the company) but I would have thought HMRC would raise an eyebrow at the tax-free allowances when someone isn’t actually working.

We’re told we’re actually in a better situation and that nothing in the law says that the people furloughed are entitled to return to their jobs, but there’s a limit to how long you can pay the mortgage on half-pay.

If you are Furloughed, can you go and do freelance work ?

Working for a different employer
If contractually allowed, your employees are permitted to work for another employer whilst you have placed them on furlough.

For any employer that takes on a new employee, the new employer should ensure they complete the starter checklist form correctly. If the employee is furloughed from another employment, they should complete Statement C.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme#when-your-employees-are-on-furlough

Is the £2,800 upper limit the net or gross amount?

Well I manged to cock up the JRS application (as an employer)

Thought it would do the calculation for me … Turns out it didn’t. Under applied.

Now in HMRC contact hell.

Website actually worked fine to their credit.

May I ask for some advice?

My wife works in the back office of a large global Civil Engineering company and has run out of work.  She been asking her manager and his Director for work, who’ve asked her to find some herself.  When she has, she’s been told its not appropropriate for her to do – leaving her with nothing.   The nature of the job means that when staff are back out into the world, she’ll be busy again.

Earlier this week the Director emailed her directly to state that “Senior Management were concerned she wasn’t performing her duties, which isn’t acceptable”.   She started to get emotional, on the basis she thinks they’ll make her redundant.

This morning an corporate HR email arrived giving the options to raise concerns. She did, talked to HR in a tearful state about the concern of losing her job, and that’s she’s trying hard to help and feels she isn’t supported by her managers.  HR have return to say they’ve advised her manager of his option and he’ll be in touch.

As they’ve furloughed 33% of their workforce already why won’t they do this for her instead of dragging her through all this shite?  Have we missed something?

Kryton…

1. Is the wife in a union? if not, sign up sharpish.

2. Are there any unions recognised by the company? If yes, pick on of them for question 1.

3. “asked to find some herself” is this in writing/email etc?

4. Does she have evidence of her completing work within her job role and authorisation? If yes, keep copies. How can she be not performing her duties if she can prove the work given to her has been completed on time etc.

5. Does her company have a grievance procedure, if so find it and read it. This may be an option to use later.

She could also speak to ACAS if she believes HR are not doing their job correctly. Make sure all emails are copied/printed and kept to back her up if the Management decide to play silly buggers.

Well, I came off furlough on Monday and back into the office and thought ok at least I’ll be on with something and on full pay but oh no…. Got an email today saying that I was to be on a 4 day week and had apparently agreed to this!! First I had bloody heard. Anyway I’ve accepted this as it’s probably better to be in the job as opposed to loads of others who may be made redundant when this lifts, but then I was told of several others who have been asked to go to 3 days a week…. Now this is a bit of a piss take as I would have been better off on furlough if this happens so fingers crossed I keep busy enough to avoid a further drop in hours.

Donks- you want to check what will happen to any holiday entitlement now you’ve “agreed” to a reduced working week and should it come to the worse, will redundancy be based on prior pay or the 4 day pay?

Thanks crazyjenkins01

1&2 no but she’ll look into it.

3. yes, every thing I posted an alluded to is in email, which is good for any tribunal.

4. Yes, she has to record her hours in a timesheet as her work is billable to their client, so any work she has done is recorded.  Yesterday she was asked to record using an item “Waiting to be tasked” for 7.5 hrs after yet again asking for work in the morning.

5. Yes likely, they are a very big corporate.  I’ll ask her to look it up.

Good to hear she has plenty of evidence then Kryton!

I’m struggling to see what the company will be able to do then to be honest. If she has been recording her time on a timesheet (which I assume, like me, would need to be authorised?) and if the work she has done can be produced to prove she has done it, then she is fulfilling her duties. If the company aren’t giving her any more duties due to CV19 that isn’t her fault or problem. They have also given a number to book against for waiting time, so they know she isn’t doing a lot, and are recording that for their budget.

She ‘should’ be safe from redundancy as if she is made redundant, when everything goes back to normal the company cant just fill that position again, and there is nothing to suggest a disciplinary and dismissal would happen either. that doesn’t stop furlough being used as an option though.

Union advice is the best bet next, but she’d need to be a member first!

Hope it goes OK.

DONKS, ask for the signed record that you were informed and agreed to this.

Yep indeed.  The obvious answer is to put her on furlough for a bit, which she’d prefer as we have our two kids at home, but we can’t work out why they don’t just do it and stop all this messing about.  I think it’s because her output forms part of a paid contractual fulfilment to thier client and to remove her from the business is admission they cannot fulfil that.

To cap it off their global MD launch a video last week explaining their first quarter and that at this time they were a company of the three c’s with regard to looking after thier staff – compassion, care and consideration…

Well, my wife’s being asked to go on Furlough by her line manager, given until after tomorrow’s “big announcement” to think about it.  But then also asked to train another member of her team to do her job tomorrow, likely to be her last day.

Obviously she’ll accept, but also spend the time looking for another job as it would appear that certain public transport companies that supply her business have huge revenue issues that won’t be over by June… or even an extension to September 2021!  Suspected outcome is 2 months Furlough follow by redundancy with statuary pay (13yrs / 12 weeks).

Looks like I’m furloughed from Monday.
🤔