The employees at my work that have been furloughed have the option of using holidays to top up their pay to 100%.

Was the working time directive suspended for all in the emergency legislation? It would fall fowl of that

I had a laugh about the CFO (up there) not understanding the difference between average and median.

It’s an easy one when the government announces it will pay the UK median – well just above if the news paper articles are to be believed. It’s not the median or average the the figure that governs the amount it’s the basic rate band width. It just happens that the basic rate band is close to the average wage. Personal allowance and basic rate are the same for 19/20 and 20/21.

Get my first Furlough pay tomorrow, it’ll be part normal pay and part Furlough so no idea of how much it will be, my wife is still working (albeit part-time) so should be ok for this month. I’m a high rate tax payer so will be capped at the £2500 limit. I’ve a company car so am I interested in the previous poster who managed to get his company car added to the Furlough scheme but can’t see how that would be allowed if you are already at the max Furlough amount, can someone help explain this?

I think its more a case of you give up your access to the car while furloughed, thereby its not a benefit so will reduce your tax bill. If you have access to the HMRC via self assessment, see if you can make the change there. It will then update your tax code which feeds into the payroll.

Only snag could be what stance HMRC will take if the cars parked at your home- could be treated as “been mad available” to you.

Construction industry here as well. Furloughed from last night.
Company is being very good as they are giving full pay until the end of May. Not sure how long the cash will last as there will be 4-5000 colleagues on furlough.
From a business point of view Covid 19 couldn’t of happened at a worse time -June year end c. 25% of our annual revenue.
Also worried for all the subcontractors and suppliers.

I think its more a case of you give up your access to the car while furloughed, thereby its not a benefit so will reduce your tax bill.

I would expect you to have to pay for it directly or have the taxable value added to your payslip to reduce the 2500 from the government, or of course, not use it at all.

Furloughed employees where I work are locked out of the building and access to the computer systems (with the exception of email).

This is starting at our company. Anyone got any reports of how much this is expected to cost the government? It seems like a lot of companies are jumping on it and taking advantage. Mine for example is a profitable company that could easily soak up the cost of paying employees for a couple of months with no income, but the money is on offer from the government and they are taking it.

AS above, the construction industry doesn’t do recession very well. about 80% of our staff are furloughed now, with a couple of jobs (network critical for some power companies)still working. all managers still working been asked to take a 30% paycut to keep the company viable. tough times, and this will not go away quickly once the virus leaves our shores. I expect another 5-10 years of heartache.

Regarding company cars if you are not using them then the usual best practice is to send them back to company head office or compound etc. so they are not available for private use. There is some flexibility on this due to the need for essential travel only and the fact that many offices are closed. Industry best practice suggests that sending the keys back to the company should be done but this has all sorts of other problems if the car needs to be moved or alarms go off etc. I was able to park mine at the office mid March when I started self isolating.

It would be good to take a dated mileage picture when you surrender the car and another when it is used again although if it is in the pool someone else could potentially use it.

Use HMRC Govt Gateway to declare when the car was not available, they update very quickly. Car tax is calculated by day but it needs to be unavailable for more than 30 consecutive days to affect tax.

You will save tax and the company will save employers NI. The tax man loses.

This is starting at our company. Anyone got any reports of how much this is expected to cost the government? It seems like a lot of companies are jumping on it and taking advantage. Mine for example is a profitable company that could easily soak up the cost of paying employees for a couple of months with no income, but the money is on offer from the government and they are taking it.

I don’t think anyone knows the cost yet. But yes, that’s certainly happening, never underestimate peoples greed though. I know of 2 employers who sacked, not made redundant, just sacked large parts of their workforce hours after we were first told to social distance 3 weeks ago. Thankfully they reversed it and furloughed them instead. Having enough money in the bank to cover their salary for x months wasn’t even a consideration.

Ultimately it’s not a ‘good’ thing, but it’s the least worst option at the moment. IF we can ‘flatten the curve’ enough to loosen regs within the 3 month period then the economy won’t collapse, it’s *just* a 3 month global pause. Pre-Furlough rules it was expected unemployment would rise by 1.5m in the next few months at least resulting in an 8% unemployment rate which has a terrible knock-on for the economy as a whole.

Now it should be much lower, and there’s a chance once lock-down lifts things will return a lot closer to the way they were than they could have been. There will obviously be a huge drop in GDP this quarter and if that bridges two quarters there will as obviously be a recession, probably a record drop, but that’s not to say it’s a complete disaster, GDP hasn’t fallen because of some massive financial scandal, it’s fallen because we closed all the shops, factories, offices etc GDP is a measure of Domestic Product, or Output in other words.

The cost will no doubt be staggering, maybe as big as during the credit crunch, but there’s probably a lot of people all trying to work out how to make it disappear – money is just a human construct and C19 has affected the world pretty equally. It doesn’t have to be the end of days.

If you want to know what the alternative looks like look at the US. Trump gambled stupidly on trying to keep trading through it giving them a huge financial advantage over the rest of the world, he gave them all about 2 weeks wages and told them to fend for themselves. Their unemployment increase is staggering, I mean mindbogglingly staggeringly massive.

Trumps leadership has been as shockingly bad as Boris’s shocking ability to suddenly be mostly competent, first he said it was a Hoax, then he spent all his energy on blaming the Chinese for it, to avoid it sticking to him, sadly their economy is going to be battered and hundreds of thousands will die and he’s still not really doing enough.

“This is starting at our company. Anyone got any reports of how much this is expected to cost the government? It seems like a lot of companies are jumping on it and taking advantage. Mine for example is a profitable company that could easily soak up the cost of paying employees for a couple of months with no income, but the money is on offer from the government and they are taking it.”

Can’t say I have an enormous problem with this. Who knows how long this could go on for? The scheme is intended to keep employees on the payroll rather than making them redundant, to enable fast start of the economy when this is possible. I don’t believe the majority already furloughed would have been retained, regardless of company profitability.

@RichPenny – I think you’re spot on. Where I work, we’ve got a load of cars on site intended for auction that will need to be shifted as quickly as possible, 500 from Enterprise alone, so we’ll be needed on site as soon as possible. Being furloughed is the best possible answer for the 150-odd people on our site, plus everyone on the other four sites belonging to the company

Can’t say I have an enormous problem with this. Who knows how long this could go on for? The scheme is intended to keep employees on the payroll rather than making them redundant, to enable fast start of the economy when this is possible.

I justified my furlough by saying that I would be off and gone if I was sacked. I can probably earn more with someone else doing a different job but the flexibility is nice where I am even though it’s minimum wage for hours plus a small top up for keeping the IT/Vehicle fleet running.

Training new staff is expensive and the saving for most employers is worth the work for furlough.

One cars and furlough – speak to HMRC. It’s always better to go to the source. Don’t assume the employer will sort it – personal tax – it personal to you. What tells people on the phone / webchat will be what is normally already on the HMRC website. PAYE is very rigid – computer says yes computer says no territory. Problems will arise if what your employer says they are going to do, doesn’t tally with what you think / tell HMRC and what they are submitting on the P11D.

As with the post above – get evidence. Photos etc are good but you really want to have something from your employer – in writing. If you have to dispute something evidence is your friend. That said it relies on you telling HMRC.

I think that’s me from Thursday, just have to finish off a couple of bits of work then 3 weekly review of need upto the end of the current scheme. At least the I have a good employer and they are making up to full pay.

I am grateful to have a job, already done the chewing through savings because someones a bold take on employment rights life experience bit. Although I expect deferred hardship to when the government starts the recovery process and all public finances are reviewed. Sometimes you’re ahead, sometimes you’re not.

So with regards to the company car.  Our fleet team sent out a handback form I needed to complete.  I had to take date stamped photographs of the ODO and I am no longer insured to drive the car.  My fuel card is to be returned and my employers will arrange to ‘collect’ my car when we are operational again.  They have informed HMRC, but recommended I also make contact, which I did via the excellent gateway system and detailed my change there, it instructed me my change would take place within 48hrs.

Pretty happy with this, car is sat locked up.  I won’t use it, I have no need!   When my employment starts again then I will have to go through the rigmarole of ‘on-fleeting’ my car again, however the cost saving is significant enough to justify the hassle.

So, what would happen if a furloughed employee had to do, say an hour’s work as an emergency on a safety critical system. Asking for a friend.

This sounds more complicated than I thought. I’ll need to think about how much the car will cost me as surely I’ll only be taxed on my car based on the 20% BIK tax (based on the £2500) as opposed to my usual 40% tax rate.

True I’m only using the car for the once a week trip to the supermarket ‘click and collect’ but I think my wife would feel less happy losing our only household car.

Jamesoz – they are able to bring you back for periods at a time, though an hour seems pointless. I guess it just gets declared via payroll and the government contribution reduces whilst the companies increases for that period.

We’ve had at least two people un-furlough for a week so far.

Jamesoz – they are able to bring you back for periods at a time, though an hour seems pointless. I guess it just gets declared via payroll and the government contribution reduces whilst the companies increases for that period.

We’ve had at least two people un-furlough for a week so far.

Thanks, that’s good to know. Call outs for us are rare but critical (fire suppression) and all non urgent work has been cancelled, hence the furlough.

But the minimum period for furlough is 3 weeks.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

So I can’t attend then without costing 3 weeks wages

Ready for its not fair rant?

Our company gas furloughed staff. They’re topping up the twenty percent so no impact financially (great thing to do)

BUT

Those of us who are still working are super busy and have been told to take mandatory holiday…

So basically if you are busy you have your hours squeezed to add pressure. You have to use holiday. Compared to if you have no work… Take three weeks on full pay and come back with all your holidays intact…

Safe to say very little work was done after that meeting 😁

Well I work from home, have work to do still with some customers still ‘working from home’ and was still Furloughed.  However the core activity of our business cannot function therefore we are not generating money! Hence I guess why we are all Furloughed.

some customers still ‘working from home’ and was still Furloughed

Strictly speaking they shouldn’t be doing anything – think that might be called fraud.

ake three weeks on full pay and come back with all your holidays intact…

I can appreciate your frustration.

Not everyone is having a holiday. One positive is it frees people to volunteer and do things for the community. My first three weeks are going to be spent recuperating and getting my fitness up.

Whilst Furlough-1 seems like a relatively good scheme if you have an employer who makes up the difference. There are still people who are only getting 80% of their wage. Others who are only getting the scheme money and that’s it. Furlough-2 may not be the same as 1. The government has now had time to plan a replacement. There is nothing to say it would be as good as one as there has been more time to create a solution. The massive increase in costs above estimate would suggest a rethink may happen. Which may be in part due to the employers above.

Wife has got letter and company is topping up 20% but expecting her to work as normal.

This is illegal isn’t it and I’m telling her absolutely not to do it as she is party to fraud.

Yep. Either furloughed or not. If the company choose to top up, that’s them being generous, but they get nothing in return. If they have need/work for her, they should not furlough her.

What happens if a furloughed employee is brought under minimum wage when on 80%?

Anyone know about annual leave? As furloughed is not employed, do you lose holiday?

i.e. 3 months furloughed = lose 25% of your holidays?

It is ok to be paid less than minimum wage on furlough. Minimum wage only applies to ‘hours worked’ and you are not allowed to work on furlough

Holidays still accrue whilst on furlough and you should not be required to take them whilst on furlough. If you are asked to take them then it may be acceptable if you are paid 100% for that period.

The big issue for the company may be too many people trying to take holidays in too few working months. The Government has said unused holidays can carry over in to the next year

Good question. Would it still keep them above job seekers and universal credit?

There are a lot of holes in furlough. It looks like my wife has been dropped in one of them due to planning a change of job this month.

It’s a quick system, no one said it was a great system.

All we can do is trust they will keep plugging holes when they find them.

Leave should still accrue as you’re still employed, just not physically working. There was a new ruling that allows people to carry over 4 weeks of holiday over the next two years, but your employer has to agree to it.

Strictly speaking they shouldn’t be doing anything – think that might be called fraud.

no you miss-read my post! I’m Furloughed my customers are not! My point was I could still be working (I’m not as I’m Furloughed)

so nothing Fraudulent at all!

There are still people who are only getting 80%

There are people getting less than that!  It’s either £2500 or 80% whichever is the least! I am currently receiving less than 50% of my usual salary…like I said before don’t expect sympathy, in fact I’m grateful to even still have any income at all.  However it is very difficult to quickly unwind and restructure your finances as quick as this has hit!  Luckily we live a fairly conservative life style and are not highly geared with loans or credit.

no you miss-read my post!

Sorry, I had miss read that as you had furloughed customers and they were still working.

50% is a really bummer, sorry to see that.

So as of tomorrow evening I’m furloughed for at least 3 weeks.
Not entirely sure how I feel about it, especially having taken a 15% pay cut last week to ‘protect jobs’ – I know it’s pretty much the government paying for me to have 3 weeks off.

Just had the phone call from the finance director. Most staff are furloughed, but essential staff such as IT (me) HR and Finance are being asked to work a 4 day week for 80% pay. Still trying to work out the reasoning behind this.

Sorry to see that Trailwagger

If this goes long I think the reduction in hours discussion may come to us all.

Sorry to see that Trailwagger

Doesn’t quite seem fair when most others in the company are furloughed so getting 80% salary and don’t have to work. Whereas I get 80% salary but still have to work four days a week.

Doesn’t quite seem fair when most others in the company are furloughed so getting 80% salary and don’t have to work. Whereas I get 80% salary but still have to work four days a week.

I don’t think it’s too unreasonable (I’m in exactly the same boat).
From the perspective of the company they’re paying 0% for those furloughed, and 80% for 80% of the work.

I don’t think it’s too unreasonable (I’m in exactly the same boat).
From the perspective of the company they’re paying 0% for those furloughed, and 80% for 80% of the work.

Correct, from the businesses perspective. But on a personal level, why should I have to work for 80% when the guy who used to sit next to me in the office is now at home doing nothing and still getting 80%.

And as I said a day or so ago in this thread, the company I work for make £1m + profit a year. They could easily cover all staff salaries and just take a hit on the profit for this year. But they always put profit above all else.