fulfilling a dream….. kit car practicality Q.

been having really strange dreams of late; probably because i’m getting more than 7 hours sleep and entering some deep sleep stage that i’ve not experienced for some time.

anyhow, last night i dreamt that i bought myself a Westfield.

not sure if it is some mid-life crises thing (i’m only 30). i don’t currently have a car and use my bike in town and take the train elsewhere (even to go on a ride).

a car would help, mind. it would mean that i can get to out-of-the-way jobs with less hassle. i could go ride at a moments notice and go ride places that the train doesn’t go to.

i’ve seen a pic on here, i think, of a Caterham with a bike rack, so bike transport isn’t a problem….

but…. how practical is a Caterham, Wesfiled, Dax or Locost on a day-today basis?

would be doing a 150km commute (there and back) a day, but not everyday. shopping and such like is a local affair and best done on foot or with the bike.

It would be shite on the commute…. But make you smile everytime you got it out on a quiet road on an early Sunday morning!

I had a caterham with a ford pinto 1600 engine in it. Whilst it was excellent fun in the sun, it was tiresome and noisy and smelt of burned rubber and the heater was either boil/blow and nothing in between and terrible to park and the boot was full of tools and the wipers failed on numerous occasions and the hood was so pathetic I ended up using a tonneau instead.. You are waiting for the “but it was great to drive/sexy/picked up girls in it” aren’t you, we’ll It was all those however I don’t miss it.
And you can’t get windsurfing kit in em’

Sorry to puncture the dream.
I had a Westfield (1.7litre cross flow) and now have a Fireblade powered thing. Neither very practical. Cold in winter, hot in summer. Not much space. Fine for an hours fun at the weekend, but not 75km in the snow.
Sorry.

yeah…. the heater thing is a bit of a worry…. -20°C at times here in southern Germany. not sure how well they handle on 3″ of snow, either.

but looking online there seem to be some good motors for around 8-10K. guessing those around 5-6k aren’t worth looking at? correct me if i’m wrong.

For a commute like that, don’t bother. A mate did use an Elise for a commute of 100 motorway miles a day though, for about a year.

He also owned a Westfield. Random things would fall off (like the bonnet), wipers would stop working in the rain, heater broke…

Do you specifically want a kit car? If not perhaps an RX7 or MX5. Still reasonably light and quick but a damn sight more comfy for the commute.

I’ve only been in a Caterham twice, and my overriding memory both times was that it was very fast, very hot, very loud and not especially comfortable.

kit car and practicality use in same sentence?

some folks will say oh yes mine was practical,these are the folks who are die hards of the highest order,probably built it themselves and are in some special club

others start a kit car and it endsup a pile of shit on ebay

others buy a kit car and are happy with it for the 2 days they rag the tits off it in summer

kit car usually means pretty quick / fun on a budget if you can live with the problems

your dream probably means you want a ferrari but cant bear with parting the cash to have the same problems as a kit car

Had a beach buggy with the same highs n lows.
Loved driving it, got attention everywhere, both wanted and unwanted.
Soft top was at best poor, you got wet getting in and out due to no doors.
Loud and a bit of a handful in traffic and on Sheffields manicured tarmac.
You have to enjoy fiddling and basic spannering.
These issues were mirrored by two mates with a Westfield and a Dutton.
Ironically, the buggy was more practical because it could carry 4 with the hood off but you were stuffed if it began to rain, it could carry camping gear for 2 and lug my short board around.
Ended up selling it and buying a camper van – infinitely more useable in so many ways!

I’ve got a caterham 7.

I dont use it every day, I think it would be awful, but thats because I have experienced other more comfortable and practical cars, maybe if you’re coming from not having a car , then any car at all regardless of how noisy,uncomfortable,raw or tiring, would be better than not having a car.

They’re also a bit like bikes in that you can built it to be uncompromisingly fast on a racetrack, but it wont be much fun on the road, or you can build it to be reasonably comfortable on the road, but it wont be much cop on the racetrack. If you got one that was well set up for the road that would be much more bearable than driving a track biased caterham on the road.

There are lots of people who drive all over europe in theirs, I cant think of anything worse, but i think thats because mine is uncompromisingly stiff, low geared, and noisy (because its set up for track)

If you did buy and and decide its not for you , then you would not lose much money if you bought second hand. This only applies to caterhams (not westfields etc)

I say , go and hire one for a day, they’re not too expensive, and that will tell you whether you can live with one or not.

regarding practicalities:-

– The roof on a caterham is water tight
– They can be twitchy in the wet if you’re not used to it
– You are very low down, so other drivers tend not to see you
– they are pretty reliable, but if you can do your own spannering you’ll save yourself a lot of money. They are easy to spanner on.
– On a dry warm day, on the right road with no traffic or speed camera’s they are incredible.
– You can get a bike on them , but not with the roof up
– They cannot be secured, so dont leave anything valuable in it
– They are low, so you might find some forestry comision car parks inaccesible
–

It’d be like commuting in winter on a motorcycle, but you’d get stuck in traffic like all the other cars… Pointless.

Are Ultimas watertight?

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phonepics 099[/url] by h4muf[/url], on Flickr

Just sold mine in August.
Loved it! However,it never stopped raining this year and:

After 2 hours in it i’m bored,theres only so much flat out driving you can do!

Thanks for the replies….

Am thinking that I would not have to use out every day.c most jobs are more accessible by train/tube than with a car (hence my not having one). The few sites that are better accessible with as car are out in the sticks.

If I were to get something it would be 99% road use. Not much point in the track when I’ve the alps on the door step. …… Pass road at 3am in summer, yes please….!

There is a work shop that I could use f- of-c and a work colleague is an ex Ferrari race mechanic.
Traffic is only a problem when entering the city, and I already live in it….

Hmm… Think a few words with the GF are in order…..

Edit… Sweet! ^^^!

I think if I lived somewhere dryer and warmer I’d use mine a lot more than I do, especially if I happened to live near the alps.

I’ve had mine 12 years now, cant see me selling it unless I need the cash, even though I only do about 600 miles a year in it.

Built a Dutton years ago – did it on the cheap and was fun for a while but basic in the extreme. Would love a Caterham as a toy but for everyday use probably not that great. Check the video in this if you the extra nudge to get one!
http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=26031

They are great yes.

But not in this country, too wet and drab, you’ll spend your entire time worrying about wipers giving up on you, or inside of screen misting up, or roof leaking down your neck, or the wet seat your already sat on, or the bulkhead leaking water into your shoes whilst driving, or the lump on your knee from being vibrated to hell by the panelling/lack of room, or the fact you’ll be likely killed off by some person on the way to the shops in the ice with misted up windows who hasn’t seen you because your not driving a fluorescent green RangeRover.

The rest of the time, their great though. Although I’ve never had one, I’ve spent enough time borrowing mates Westies/random kits and then fixing them for most of my time off to know that I wouldn’t want one as my only car.

Had a caterham 7 ( supersprint, crossflow)….it was my dream to own and it was fantastic. Don’t get a Westfield, MTB comparison would be a Boardman or halfrauds effort compared to that cotic you could have owned. If u want a seven, get a caterham. Join the club, no shame in that, great people, great events and support. The blatchat hive mind exceeds stw….easily.

Oh dear, lots of Caterham snobbery on this thread but then that’s par for the course from Cat owners.

Anyhow a kit is only as good as it’s builder whether factory or private.

If you are a masochist then yes you can use them every day in the same way you can cycle 30 miles to work and back in all weathers if you want but this really isn’t the point of cars like these.

The point of these cars are back to basics no nonsense thrills at a decent price, something which will only get harder and harder to achieve in the modern world.

hoodie – Member

Had a caterham 7 ( supersprint, crossflow)….it was my dream to own and it was fantastic. Don’t get a Westfield, MTB comparison would be a Boardman or halfrauds effort compared to that cotic you could have owned.

How many Boardmans have you owned?
What was wrong with their design and manufacture?

Cat snobbery maybe, but I’m a purist anyway, if I have one again, it will be a bdr, none of this modern k series/duratec crap. Awaits lottery win or inheritance.

If you’re such a purist, why don’t you want a Lotus original?

And how many Boardmans have you owned?

hoodie – Member

Cat snobbery maybe,

Not a lot of ‘maybe’ about it really is there?

Theres nothing wrong I’m sure and flame away I’ve got a Marin, but a caterham looks right proportion wise and has the heritage. A Westfield or tiger or a Robin hood just dont….

Actually your right, I even used to live in caterham…I can’t help it.

😀

Built a Quantum Mk2 in the 90’s and ran it as my only car for a while. It was about as practical as kit cars get; fixed roof, wind up windows, soundproofing, stereo etc, basically an XR2 rebodied in a fiberglass gelcoat shell. Plus points were great performance / economy, rustproof, cheap insurance, big boot and very rare. Was only as good as the effort I put in to make it, so still the odd draught, leak, leccy gremlin and the ever present smell of GRP.

Have driven a 7 replica on the road and wouldn’t ever consider commuting in one.

I echo the sentiments above.

Although my Westfield means Caterhams tut in my general direction, I love it to bits and a well built car with a half decent engine and properly set-up suspension will be more than enough fun for most people.

Despite the brand snobbery in some circles, kits are great to drive but really won’t be a lot of fun as an all weather commuter

Another who had a caterham – huge great VX engine in mine, an HPC – great for occasional use but horrible with the hood up and the screen misting, not able to see out of the side screens and if you touch your arse on the wheel arches then wed muddy trousers all day.

Loved it though.

Oh & you have to get used to people pulling out in front of you, not sure if that is because of the acceleration & you are where they dont expect you to be or the fact it is small & people think you are further away but another hazard to be mindful of

Hi i worked for both quantum and wesfield for a 12 year period building the factory built cars and would say that using a westfield regulary would be hardwork as already said the quantums i built were as useable as any production cars you could even fit towbars for bike racks if i were t buy a second hand kit car my choice would be a gtm libra all the fun with a bit of comfort also if u like seven style cars look at the quantum xtreme

when I had my supersprint it was my only car, living in south london, it meant i used my bike to commute, unless i fancied giving it a blast…it wasnt practical really and I did have use of a normal car if occasionally needed, but i had to do it, while i had the chance. If it is halfway possible and its something you really want then do it, without wishing to start the brand debate again, buy the right car and it wont lose much in depreciation anyway, particularly if bought second hand privately. Hood up yes Caterhams are unpleasant but you can get half hoods which are much better, giving a mix of protection and airflow/visibility. Or you can mtfu and go aeroscreen and helmet !

8)

Dammit, I am now considering building a Cobra replica again

roof details here: http://www.v8cobra.co.uk/hardtop.html

Or you can mtfu and go aeroscreen and helmet !

Damn right! No worries about wipers not working now I’ve got an aeroscreen fitted!

A friend of mine had one of these in the mid 80’s
felt like i was in a coffin, very tight space extremely low
and felt I was the crumple zone if the worst was to happen 😐

ok… again, thanks for the replies..

Don’t get a Westfield, MTB comparison would be a Boardman

the GF had a Boardman and it was a top little bike and for the money was an absolute bargain! going by that i’d happily get a Westfield. shame the bike got nicked a few weeks ago. 🙁

the GF is supportive of the idea. the car would ultimately be for weekend jaunts and the occasional commute.

i’m not fussed about my trouser legs getting dirty. i spend most of my time in a workshop and am still wearing shorts to work.

i’m not a car snob and there aren’t that many Cats, Westies around these parts anyway.

that Xtreme looks great! that cobra is kinda sexy, but not what i’m after.

i still have a few Qs…

what are they like on fuel? not really a biggie as it won’t be used daily, but still…

security? easy to steal?

anywhere i can look for left-handers? i tried ebay and ended up with a load of US muscle cars and the occasional sensible motor.

cheers

what are they like on fuel? not really a biggie as it won’t be used daily, but still…

security? easy to steal?

To put it into context i have a 1800 ford crossflow with fast road cam and twin webers (130bhp) (so an old but tuned engine). It will do about 28mpg at best and well under 10mpg at worst. Friends with more modern Zetecs and the like are much better.

It’s quite easy to steal if you know what you are looking for but you can do everything from hidden kill switches, to after manufacture immobilisers and removable steering wheels. It depends what lengths you wish to go to really.

I have a fuel injected 2.0 ford zetec in my caterham, and I get about 21mpg on a motorway run, which is quite poor due to the lumpy cams and fairly low tech ECU and low gearing. It drops down to about 10mpg on the track

A car with a more modern ecu and more reasonable gearing should do 30mpg easily enough.

They can be very easy to steal, but you can fit an immobiliser which would be pretty tricky to bypass. I have a removable steering wheel (F1 stylee), which just clips on/off, which helps getting in and out as well as making the car impossible to steel. I dont think they’re that sought after by the theiving fraternity though

Anyhow a kit is only as good as it’s builder whether factory or private.

How very true!

Not quite the same as the OP wants but I had fancied a kit car for ages and it was the practicality aspect which put me off. I had looked at and driven a couple of very well put together Robin Hoods but they didn’t feel quick enough to overcome the -ve aspects. In the end I bought a Rickman Ranger, think (very) poor mans Land Rover, with 2.0 zetec, twin choke webers as a compromise. Moderately quick but without doubt the most uncomfortable, noisy, unreliable piece of crap I have ever had the misfortune stupidity to own.

Apart from just being able to jump in a Caterham/Westfield etc. and drive off, give me motorbike any day.

The differences between building a caterham or westfield and some of the other 7 alikes is quite considerable.

A caterham(and to a lesser extent a westfield ) is essentially just like building up a bike, ie youre just bolting bits together , and its very easy to do. Some of the other kits require you to fabricate parts etc.

The result is youre very unlikely to find a poorly built caterham, and if you do itll be because the bloke that built it decided to try and be cheap on some of the parts. Ie the average standard of a caterham is higher than the average standard on say a robin hood.

I’ve got an MG Midget, I think 99% of the problems people have with ‘sports’ cars are the roof, so get one with a proper, well fitted roof and windows and it’s fine, the midget was toasty in winter, bone dry in the rain and in the summer the roof’s never up so heating/cooling is irreverent. Westfield, caterham etc all have crap hoods, I’ve never seen one that didn’t look like a bodged tent. Stuff like Cobra’s generally look better.

As for engines, get something near standard, there’s an inverse correlation between how tuned the engine is and how much people enjoy driving them on normal roads! At the most stick with simple stuff like air filter, exhaust, and maybe a lighter flywheel (easy, just take one off a smaller engine from the same family, e.g. 1.2 ford flywheel in a 1.6).

On a tangent, why not get an MGB and put as much money as a westfield would cost and spend that on updating it from the frontline catalogue and stick a mazda engine/box in it?

In response to the OP, I’m pretty sure that getting kits registered locally in mainland europe can be difficult; worth investigating as it could influence what you go for, age of car etc. Over the last dozen years I’ve built a Locost and 2 x fisher fury’s, and each time its been harder to get registered. I carried a bike on the locost, and probably could on the Fury, but its a load of faff, makes a LOT of wind noise at speed and isn’t really viable for any more than an hours drive in good weather. The best kits have been designed by Jeremy Phillips, have a look at the striker/fury/phoenix/J15 range, although if you don’t actually want to do the build, buy something pre-built and registered as it really has to be a labour of love to do it yourself. And it doesn’t really save much in terms of £ anymore thanks to SVA/IVA.

That said, on the right day and road they are just brilliant 😀