Free solar panels: Is anyone using them?

Specifically from these people: http://www.ashadegreener.co.uk/%5B/url%5D. Any good? Any problems?

If something looks too good to be true it usually is, so where’s the catch?

If something looks too good to be true it usually is, so where’s the catch?

The catch is that they keep the Feed In Tariff, which is more profitable than the saving on your leccy bill. If you don’t have the cash spare, or are likely to move in the next few years, these “rent a roof” schemes aren’t a bad idea. But if you do have the savings, solar panels are a good investment. IIRC, you get about a 9% return on the investment.

issue is that you’re effectively leasing your roof to them for 25 years, they have to have access etc for that whole time.

You may not mind but it may put off future purchasers of your house.

Bashed in my postcode only to see:

We only install in parts of Yorkshire, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Leicestershire, Lincolnshire, Lancashire, Cheshire and Staffordshire

So not much use to those of us in the South then…

I’ve been thinking about these for a while and it does seem to good to be true, as we run a business from home the free electric during the day is really appealing, may even install electric storage heating in the work room, change gas hob to electric to get full benefit of it.

I need to find out more really, I am surprised there is no cheap loans available from money lenders for this scheme available.

There was a guy on dragons den last night with a similar company set up and one of the dragons questions was how many people have £12000+ for an installation – I don’t so a free set up with free electric is about as good as I can get really so needs further investigation in my case.

Intriguing thread

British Gas are running a similar scheme, for what it’s worth. Expensive to ‘buy out’ the panels from them, but the benefits are similar…

It’s on their website somewhere…

change gas hob to electric to get full benefit of it..

Unless you are somewhere spectacularly sunny, there won’t be enough juice to run a kettle from most installations.

Unless you are somewhere spectacularly sunny, there won’t be enough juice to run a kettle from most installations.

well it’s not meant to serve all your leccy needs is it?

I think the idea is that you scale back your consumption generally too, plonking a solar panel on the roof is not “The Answer” to all your energy problems, it’s one component in a wider strategy, part of which I guess has to be using less energy, so just have fewer hot beverages…

We only install in parts of Yorkshire, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Leicestershire, Lincolnshire, Lancashire, Cheshire and Staffordshire

Unless you are somewhere spectacularly sunny, there won’t be enough juice to run a kettle from most installations.

It’s always sunny in Yorkshire lad

Unless you are somewhere spectacularly sunny, there won’t be enough juice to run a kettle from most installations.

Why would you want to? It’s not as if you run your kettle constantly, is it?

ScottChegg – Member
change gas hob to electric to get full benefit of it..
Unless you are somewhere spectacularly sunny, there won’t be enough juice to run a kettle from most installations

well it’s not meant to serve all your leccy needs is it?

I think the idea is that you scale back your consumption generally too, plonking a solar panel on the roof is not “The Answer” to all your energy problems, it’s one component in a wider strategy, part of which I guess has to be using less energy, so just have fewer hot beverages…

well what’s the point then if it does generate enough energy for your own use???

I often wonder with these how much of the power that the cells produce will actually get used by the household, if there’s no storage of it (just feeding back in to the grid).

Through the summer our electricity usage is very low (lights only on for a couple of hours in the evenings when it’s dark), then it goes up over winter when the cells would be producing much less. And as said, high-drain stuff like cooking, electric showers, etc will need more than the cells produce anyway. Maybe if you’re retired / have young kids / work from home and sit at home all day using electrical stuff you might get more benefit.

Seems that with the “free panels” lot you’re not likely to use much of the power coming off them, and it’s the installer pocketing the feed-in tariff, not you. Interesting that all the testimonials on that company’s site are about how friendly and efficient the install teams are, not how much people are saving on their bills.

It *looks* as if it will provide roughly ~50% daily energy but the down side is, as folk have pointed out, you don’t own them. We’re not moving anywhere soon as we only bought this place last year (and as a result don’t have the spare cash for our own installation) so it seems like a reasonable idea. But I need to hear from actual users about how much juice gets pushed out on a monthly basis, rather than the from sellers, before I start thinking seriously about it.

Oh yeah, for those outside the glory lands there are other schemes around the country: http://www.uswitch.com/solar-panels/%5B/url%5D

Seems that with the “free panels” lot you’re not likely to use much of the power coming off them, and it’s the installer pocketing the feed-in tariff, not you. Interesting that all the testimonials on that company’s site are about how friendly and efficient the install teams are, not how much people are saving on their bills.

Depends on your domestic circumstances. I believe that a lot of people use their washing machine & dishwasher on a timer so they can run them during the day. Even so, you won’t save a fortune, but in fairness, the panels are costing nowt so I don’t see too much room for complaint.

On a purely altruistic note it’s not costing you anything and there’s a little more green energy going into the grid (assuming of course the carbon footprint of the panels manufacture and installation don’t outweigh the clean energy they’re producing).

Until you need to fix your roof, and you’ve got another big headache you don’t need.

Do it for greenwash reasons, by all means. That warm fuzzy feeling might be better for keeping you warm in winter

Solar technology is young. Give it 3/5 years there’ll be panels that are a lot more efficient while I presume you are stuck with what’s current(haha)ly available for the next 25 years?

Don’t bank on quick efficiency improvements. It’ll not change much in that timescale.

There are some massively more expensive and more efficient techniques for spacecraft panels, but in domestic most of the emphasis is on reducing cost not improving efficiency. Physics doesn’t change, and raw materials used in the fancy stuff are in are in very finite supply.

Also there will be improvements in plastic panels (currently quite poor) for use on products and not-flat things, they might start to get closer to the current stuff you’d put on your roof.

What happens if you decide to change supplier, are you allowed ? Or are you stuck with them for the whole 25 years in a contract you cant get out of unless you pay them to take it off the roof.

Who pays to insure it and maintain it. What if your TV ariel / chimmeny falls onto it.

What if the deal turns out to be pants after a few years.

Would you buy a house with a deal like that on its roof.

Loads of questions need to be sorted first. It may not be that good once you look into the detail. Plus the rate at which technology moves you could find yourself saddled with some rubish after a few years. Look at how LED’s have revolutionised our lights for night riding. Imagine having to use the same ones for 25 years.

The panels are rated for that lifetime. The deal doesn’t change it’s just economics. If you like the deal now, then you can work out what it’s worth to you over the time. The panels will loose only a teeny bit of efficiency as they age.

Personally I wouldn’t want to rent out my roof. (I have panels). But some might.

Councils are at it though round our way. They rent out the roofs of their council houses and get income for 25 years from the installers, the tenants get lower bills, and the installers pick up the FIT.

I believe Which magazine did a study, the conclusion being that it is actually cheaper to get the loan to do the work and keep the ‘feed in’ money yourself.

As far as storage goes, you effectively use the grid for storage.

This “won’t boil a kettle” nonsense is just headline grabbing rubbish, completely missing the point.

On a sunny day in winter they will work just as well as in summer, it’s light not heat that PV’s use.

Councils are at it though round our way. They rent out the roofs of their council houses and get income for 25 years from the installers, the tenants get lower bills, and the installers pick up the FIT.

This can only be a good thing, I’m surprised more haven’t picked up on it… though that’s if the own any properties nowadays.

What about Mini Windmills?

I’ve seen a Garage locally with a bank of these along the roof diddy little things with a ~500mm Diameter 3 bladed turbine, on a windy day they seem to belt round….

Can i get a couple of those on my home’s roof?
Sunlight is at best only available for what ~60% of the Day and in this country at least, not very intense for long periods, but we see reasonably consistent gusts wind in the UK, more so than sunlight (I’d have thought).

Is there a wind “Micro Generation” option? and if so how does it stack up against Solar? what about a combined wind/solar option?

Good info here –
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-solar-panels

It is generally a good idea, but there are many variables e.g. location, equipment, installer etc.

Read this first: Clicky

And download the .pdf “A buyers guide to solar electricity panels”

What about Mini Windmills?

The power generated is proportional to the cube of the swept area. So mini wind turbines don’t generate much at all, they don’t work well in turbulent air (which is what you get on roof tops) and there may be issues with vibration-induced damage to the building.

Apart from that, they’re great.

Yeah but you’re forgetting the business that garage will attract from them spinning around up there.

cookeaa – see here for mini-windmill effectiveness or not for your post-code –
http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generate-your-own-energy/Can-I-generate-electricity-from-the-wind-at-my-home

Last week, we ‘won’ tank, panels & installation. Chap turns up today. To win, we needed to sign a 10 year cleaning contract @ 400EUR per year. & if we sold, we’d have to purchase the kit. Hmmm.

So, what everyone is saying is that if you have the £12k sat around, then there a pretty good investment, and you help the environment at the same time = no brainer.

Downside is that if you move – then you’d have to have them de-installed and re-installed OR sell them onto the next owner – that could be a plus on selling your house as it generates a little income ?

25yr contract for a technology thats in its infancy. Not very wise at all.

Who knows. In 5-10yrs you may be able to buy more efficient panels that supply 150% of your consumption and have the option to sell on your surplus.

We’re tinkering with this.
A couple of things. If you have 12K spare to stick on your roof it’s a pretty good investment. Returns are looking nearer 8%.

Deterioration looks like it might be worse than expected over ten year.

Also it’s important to look at how the house works, especialy if you’re all out all day, then all return and slap everything on.

My BIL went to Germany to see a company that is working on batteries, storage of harnessed electricity is the big thing.

Storage would be great.
When I first got mine we had a old-style meter which ran backwards. This meant the grid was our giant “storage battery” and we could re-use for free even in the middle of the night! Over the first 6 months winter..summer we generated more than we used. – That led to some chaos with the electricity company.

Nowadays I recon we can only roughly halve our electricity bills because we have a new fangled meter which works properly and sadly charges us when the sun’s not shining!

I had a quote last week £16k for a 3.78Kw system (largest domestic to still get the full feed in tariff is 4kw)

Projected to pay back just over £1,500 per year, with the saving on electric bill only about £190 of that (No one at home during the day Mon-Fri)

If you wait for better panels then after April 2012 the feed in tariff is dropping, can’t remember to what though.

The current tariff is index linked for 25 years, the panels I was quoted have a gaurenteed minimum 80% efficiency after 20 years, the drop in efficiency is something alot of people don’t tell you about.

I work for a UK manufacturer of a 5kW turbine.

Building mounted turbines are more for your “green washing” activity, Vertical Axis turbines are, in my opinion, not worth the outlay for the return they give.

The most important factor when considering a wind turbine which will enable you to claim the FiT (Feed in Tariff) is MCS accreditation, no MCS no FiT, fact. If anyone tells you their turbine is “just about to be approved” then they and the figures they are putting forward are not worth the air they are written on.

MCS: http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/mcs-consumer/product-search.php?searchProductTypeID=4551

That site is also your first point of call for any solar etc.

Solar photovoltaic is never going to be a great idea in the UK. The physics (and they aren’t going to change) don’t add up…. the following is shameless ripped off from http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c6/page_39.shtml… if you’re thinking of Greenwashing I suggest you have a read)

The phyisical limit (i.e. it is impossible for it to be better – the Shockley–Queisser limit) for efficency of standard PV panals is 31%. In order to do better you need to split the light into multiple bandwidth widths – the best that anyone has done is 42% and the tripple junction limit (i.e. split into 3 bandwidths) is under 50%. The best you can buy are about 20% efficent at the moment.

Sunlight at midday provides 1kw/m2, as we’re not at the equator we need to modify that to 600w/m2. The UK on average gets 34% of sunny daylight hours due to cloud cover. As a result you end up with 110w/m2 on average (see link aboves technical chapters for working)for a south facing roof.

So, lets say you installed 10m2 (which would be a lot) of the best panals you can buy, you’re only going to get on average 2.6kWhs a day (110*0.2 = 22W/m2, 22x10x12hrs=2.6kW/day). The average consumption for a 3 bed house is about 10.6kWhrs a day…

Thermal pannals make a lot more sense.

Thermal panels make a lot more sense.

From a point of view of efficiency maybe but the FIT of PV panels is the major advantage ,assuming govt doesn`t renege on the deal in years to come.
If it was just about the electricity you would save then it wouldn`t be worth it.

Guys, just remember to keep it under 3.68kVA per phase (16A at 230V if it’s single phase) unless you enjoy paying for network reinforcement. That’s G83 as opposed to G59 for those who know their standards.

Declaration of interest – I work for electricity distribution company