Framebuilders in London that would do a fatbke for a decent price?

Those photos have blown my mind.

why oh why do I seem to get such ridiculous reactions to almost everything I post on here…. *shakes head*

It actually fits really well. I wouldn’t just be saying that. My arms just naturally fall there. And my legs feel great in that position. I did actually do 30 miles on it last weekend.

But I you need to get yourself one bike that fits you properly

I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been trying to get a fitting done, I just someone to sit down with me and help me workout what size/kind of bike I need. My LBS (a specialized one) says that it will cost £200 and they want to put me on a machine and stuff. I just need a simple fitting, not that. I’ll see if I can find some other bike shops and ask their help.

I appreciate the advice a LOT. I just measured my height which is 5’5″ and my armspan is 5’6″

I was about to suggest the same. Forget fatbikes, dynamos and blingy Hope components. You’ve said that you want to get out bikepacking, how is that getting on? Why not buy yourself a cheap, 2nd hand bike for the summer and get out with your kit to try it out. Worry about a fatbike later. You’ll find loads of choice and you’ll get something on which you can manage a lot more than 30 miles, giving you more opportunity to explore.

Haha well said. I do agree. I do just want a bike that fits. I can’t seem to figure out it out. Judging by the reaction of everyone here I feel like I’m doing something seriously wrong 🙁 The Moonlander feels great to me, though I’m sitting very upright on it, that might be it??
I did see a 14″ inbred on ebay?

and I still have two more weeks of school left (:

why the hell is your saddle that far forward and your stem the wrong way round?

am I missing something?

I’m 5’5″ and it’s medium. I feel like it’s me who’s missing something.

Just looked up the size guide for the Moonlander, it’s not that long but why not switch to a small? I’m not familiar with fat bikes really and I didn’t understand your wheel comment, could you not just get a couple of sets of wheels for different types of riding? Get rid of the stuff that doesnt fit/you don’t like to pay for it?

That moonlander just looks wrong and really not good for you. I just want to take it all apart and move it all round.

I’m not having a dog but trying to be constructive.

Bar angle – they seem to be pointing up, I can’t think of any way that would feel comfortable. Try rotating them round back towards you to bring them flatter.

Control angle – you want to get this flatter too to lower your wrists, lots of people have brake levers at 45 deg or worse and it just means you rotate you hands down whhich lifts your wrists and it will shorten your reach.

Consider dropping the stem and get rid of that heavy adjustable thing. Just use spacers to get the height right. A nice short 35mm stem the right way round should work with bars that are sweeping back and not up, but might need a shorter frame (ie a small).

The saddle being that far forward does not look great for your knees.

Another alternative is what about getting something like an On One fatty frame and have rack mounts etc added to it? £150 for the frame leaves a lot for extras. They do a baby faty but it’s 24″ wheels and a bit small for you. Their 16″ with a 35mm stem would probably be a decent fit and is 5mm effective TT shorter than the small moonlander.

Don’t know why but this sprung to mind https://clelandcycles.wordpress.com/ interesting.

I don’t think you will find a more appropriate bike than one called a Moonlander.

At 5’5″ I’d think that a small Moonlander would be a better fit. Surly don’t give a recommended height range for their frames though…

I did see a 14″ inbred on ebay?

There you go. Perfect bike will definitely fit. Cheap reliable all the mounting bits you want.

Buy it and ride it and you’ll soon realise how a bike should fit.

It’ll go absolutely everywhere you want it to go.

Officerfriendly, don’t listen to these idiots with their rational, logical statements! Keep building those bat sh1t crazy bikes, like you do so well. This forum would be a much duller place if you were to stop…

My arms just naturally fall there

Unless you’re riding a recumbent with underseat steering, the handlebars won’t be where your arms naturally fall – with that position, you must be sitting bolt upright.

Instead, as a rough rule of thumb, your back should be around 45 degrees from vertical, and your arms should be at an equal angle, so you look like an A from the side.

Also bear in mind that the amount of fat bike frames that a typical uk frame builder will have built will be approximately zero. Do you really want to fork out that money for what will basically be their first best guess.

This is true too. I’ve built exactly one fatbike, it came out very well, mainly because I copied a Pugsley and made it betterer.

I’m no expert on bike fit, but I’ve found it’s good to start by setting the saddle position first. Set the height, then the fore-aft movement. The Brooks saddles tend to have short-ish rails, so it’s not always easy to adjust them too far from the centre. It’s difficult to know without seeing you on the bike, but I suspect the current position might be making it difficult for you to put optimum power through the pedals whilst sitting comfortably. Also, those Brooks saddles are designed for an upright riding position, so if you’re leaning forward or being canted forward by the relative position of the pedals and handlebars then you won’t be sitting on the saddle properly (you said it wasn’t comfortable).

I can’t see, but does the rear rack attach to the saddle in some way? That would prevent the saddle from being set to the correct fore-aft position.

It might also be worth looking into shorter cranks if you find your knees are having to bend a lot. The cranks look quite long relative to the riding position.

Once the pedaling position is sorted you could look at the bars. I’m not sure, but it might that a pair of Jones bars with a short stem would sweep back far enough.

By the way, I find that pedaling on a turbo trainer is a good way to get bike fit dialed in. It doesn’t have to be a fancy trainer, although fat tyres might be a problem. However, you could fit a narrower tyre or wheel if the current rear wheel didn’t interface with your turbo trainer.

I think we need a pic of the OP on the bike, and one of the knee bruises.

I think the OP needs to go to a different LBS, not the one that told him a medium Moonlander was correct for his height! It’s not a complicated bike fit that’s required, just some honest advice from someone more knowledgeable or not just trying to offload some old stock to a naive customer.

No one has mentioned the “slick” tyres yet either…..

There you go. Perfect bike will definitely fit. Cheap reliable all the mounting bits you want.

Buy it and ride it and you’ll soon realise how a bike should fit.

It’ll go absolutely everywhere you want it to go.

This +1

Plenty of places in London will do a bike fitting for less than £200 – Two Wheels Good in Stoke Newington as an example, I think it’s £50. That would be money well spent, trust me!

Also on the builder front give my mate Jon a call, he’s in Chertsey and worth a try, his website is http://www.tomobikes.co.uk.

bpd – your link doesn’t work (perhaps you need a typewriter that’s sexier?)… allow me:

Tomo Bikes[/url]

just went to my LBS today and took my Medium Moonlander and XS Mukluk, both at kind of the opposite end for me, one too big and one a tad too small. I have to have the seatpost up super high on the 15″ Mukluk, so we kind of concluded that a small 16″ would be perfect. Apparently your not supposed to be riding bolt upright? I should apparently be leaning slightly in, like you said Ben, with an A shape? I don’t understand this. It feels very tense and uncomfortable on my back. The upright position feels very comfortable, natural and laid back. On the Moonlander that position is perfect. But it’s wrong? I don’t know, it feels far more comfortable to ride than the XS Mukluk. I get that it’s wrong. But it seems to work? With a short stem wouldn’t the bike be super twitchy anyway? That’d be really frustrating and would get old soon on long rides. The Mukluk with a 50mm stem is super twitchy and requires effort to keep it in a striaght line on the road.

I kind of, starting with bikes, just jumped straight into fatbikes from dirt jumpers and bmxes. I loved having the fattest tyres I could on my bmx and when I found fatbikes I just had to have one! So I haven’t really ever owned any normal sized bikes. When I sell my other bikes that don’t fit me at all I will definetely be getting one. I’m not sure which one yet!

Bar angle – they seem to be pointing up, I can’t think of any way that would feel comfortable. Try rotating them round back towards you to bring them flatter.

I don’t understand what you’re saying at all. they’re riser bars?!!!! And they feel super comfortable. I’m not trying to argue, I’m just saying (:

Consider dropping the stem and get rid of that heavy adjustable thing. Just use spacers to get the height right. A nice short 35mm stem the right way round should work with bars that are sweeping back and not up, but might need a shorter frame (ie a small).

The problem with a shorter stem like I mentioned above is that it’s too twitchy. Even on the XS I still had to lean forward to reach the stem, and that’s a short stem..
Thanks for the advice though. I’ll try moving the saddle back! (:

At 5’5″ I’d think that a small Moonlander would be a better fit. Surly don’t give a recommended height range for their frames though…

I agree. I’ve found one I might be able to get, will try swapping the frame. Yeah Surly reccomend you actually have a bike shop properly fit you to it, which I think they’re very right in saying: http://surlybikes.com/info_hole/spew/spew_bike_fit

Unless you’re riding a recumbent with underseat steering, the handlebars won’t be where your arms naturally fall – with that position, you must be sitting bolt upright.
Instead, as a rough rule of thumb, your back should be around 45 degrees from vertical, and your arms should be at an equal angle, so you look like an A from the side.

I am sitting bolt upright! I thought that was kind of what an upright touring position was anyway? I said above, it feels very comfortable and natural. Riding leaning forwards feels very uncomfortable and tense and strains my back. Am I doing something wrong again? 🙁

you said it wasn’t comfortable

Sorry if I was a bit unclear, I just meant in the fact that it was too soft. It’s really good otherwise.

It might also be worth looking into shorter cranks if you find your knees are having to bend a lot. The cranks look quite long relative to the riding position.
Once the pedaling position is sorted you could look at the bars. I’m not sure, but it might that a pair of Jones bars with a short stem would sweep back far enough.

Shorter cranks are a really good idea. What’s the difference between having the stem I’ve got on it now and a Jones bar with a huge sweep? Wouldn’t they have similair results, but the Jones bar would be far twitchier? I actually really wanted one, they are just so much!

I think the OP needs to go to a different LBS, not the one that told him a medium Moonlander was correct for his height! It’s not a complicated bike fit that’s required, just some honest advice from someone more knowledgeable or not just trying to offload some old stock to a naive customer.

No one has mentioned the “slick” tyres yet either…..
Well I went there again and one of the guys I know there was really helpful. We kind of concluded a Small frame would be good. I honestly don’t get the riding position though. The leaning forwards bit. Even on the XS with the 50mm stem I still have to like lean forwards in that it becomes really uncomfortable and straining. I’m so confused. There’s another bike shop that stocks all kinds of bikes near me, going to go check it out and the weekend and see what they’ve got.

Plenty of places in London will do a bike fitting for less than £200 – Two Wheels Good in Stoke Newington as an example, I think it’s £50. That would be money well spent, trust me!

Thanks, I’ll definetely try and get one done!

Have you ever looked at other people riding bikes? Other than those “Amsterdam-style” shoppers, leaning forward is the usual riding position. Of course, it may be that it’s not for you (could be a comfort thing, could be a physiological thing), but you’re not going to get a normal bike to fit you. I don’t know if Electra “cruisers” are still available but it looks like that might be more up your street.

Edit: Like this

http://www.backpacking-united.com/en/electra-straight-8-8i-mens-black-satin

Have you ever looked at other people riding bikes? Other than those “Amsterdam-style” shoppers, leaning forward is the usual riding position. Of course, it may be that it’s not for you (could be a comfort thing, could be a physiological thing), but you’re not going to get a normal bike to fit you. I don’t know if Electra “cruisers” are still available but it looks like that might be more up your street.

huh. I haven’t actually, I mainly just see drop bar roadies and construction workers on their BSOs lol. It’s really weird how it is. I can’t imagine how it would be comfortable and not straining. My guy at my LBS said that I need higher bars, like cruiser bars if I want to sit like that. (:

but you’re not going to get a normal bike to fit you

This is really frustrating ):

O.F, there’s a couple of things to try based on what you’re saying about the position you’re after. Deejayen’s advice about looking at the saddle position is spot on. I don’t know what build you are but it’s not uncommon for people to want a really slack seat angle on a bike -particularly Brooks saddle users- in order to get their weight balanced. Some just don’t want to support their upper body weight with their arms. Sliding the saddle way back really helps there, despite it adding reach from saddle to bar, since the ~73 degree seat angle of an average bike isn’t slack enough for some. That rearward saddle position and a bar that’s level with or a bit above the saddle can feel really comfy. It’s about getting your c of g back and over the BB and it’s more important for some riders than others, often depending on their build.
Those Electra bikes are brilliant, a much more extreme version of the same idea. You’d love a Cleland bike I think, worth looking them up out of interest.

Well I went there again and one of the guys I know there was really helpful. We kind of concluded a Small frame would be good. I honestly don’t get the riding position though. The leaning forwards bit. Even on the XS with the 50mm stem I still have to like lean forwards in that it becomes really uncomfortable and straining. I’m so confused.

If you sit bolt upright and don’t lean on the front then the front will have no grip, you need to balance your weight between the two or you won’t have control. Like most things you don’t do all the time it probably feels strange and you probably need to work at it. If it feels strained then you probably haven’t used your body like that before.

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/gear/article/technique-perfect-mountain-bike-fit-29498/%5B/url%5D

You should look something like this when the bike fits properly

I kind of, starting with bikes, just jumped straight into fatbikes from dirt jumpers and bmxes. I loved having the fattest tyres I could on my bmx and when I found fatbikes I just had to have one! So I haven’t really ever owned any normal sized bikes.

Well apart from your Cove freeride bike with added panniers
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/which-front-end-for-a-downhill-full-suspension-fatty

Choosing your position from a saddle is a bit like the tail wagging the dog? Maybe try a different saddle?

Sitting dead upright on an Mtb could be really bad for your back, as all the jolts shocks will be going vertically up your spine, which is bad, and one of the reasons why cyclists lean forward. Leaning forward allows your back to flex as it hits rough terrain.

Seriously, try a Jones H bar, with say, a 70mm stem.

It might be worth getting a test ride on a Jones Spaceframe, combined with an H bar, the weight distribution can be very light on the hands, but you will be leaning forwards in a normal riding poisition though.

My guess is, if you persist in wanting a totally upright position, you’ll continue having problems finding the right bike

I had forgotten about that one

Compared to the other bike setups in your collection this actually looks quite normal

howabout taking a daytrip and go an do some test rides at somewhere like Charlie the Bikemongers or Sideways?

try persevering with a “normal” riding position. Changes take time to get used to (see the many threads on here about MTBers trying to get comfortable on road bikes) but it will solve many of your problems. Stretching may help but it’s mainly just getting used to it. Your weight should be split between saddle and bars, not all going through your sit bones. I agree with suggestions above that a basic bike fit should get you close enough to the right position.

The most interesting part of all this for me is this comment –

and I still have two more weeks of school left (:

How old are you OF?

Wow, some super, super helpful advice here. this has actually changed everything for me. I’m very grateful (:

@Jameso
Thanks for the advice! I’ll keep it in mind. I’m going to go and try a few different bikes and try persevering with the “standard” position in the hope that it solve most of the issues.

If you sit bolt upright and don’t lean on the front then the front will have no grip, you need to balance your weight between the two or you won’t have control. Like most things you don’t do all the time it probably feels strange and you probably need to work at it. If it feels strained then you probably haven’t used your body like that before.

I think you’ve got it spot on there. I haven’t ever really ridden like that before. The weird thing is, it’s almost natural for me. Like my ECR is setup normally, but when I ride it (mainly commuting) I almost naturally sit back, with one hand just reaching the bars. Like you said though, probably requires some perseverance. I will definetely do that. I’ve been doing some research (reading about Lael Wilcox’s utterly amazing journey of the 5,000 miles from Alaska to Mexico) and that’s kind of what I really want to do. I want to see the world like that and explore it. I’m just going to try and get a normal bike, try again with a 29er, but a light one, rather than a heavy steel one. I really really hope I can get used to it and ride bikes as they were meant to be. I just want to ride now. I don’t care about fatbikes or crazy shit anymore. I think I’m kind of growing up lol.

You should look something like this when the bike fits properly

Thanks for the image, that’s put things in perspective really well. They way I ride is kind of an L shape where as that is an A shape as Ben was talking about. I really really hope I can get my riding position more normal so I can ride bikes more properly, more comfortably and most of all, further!

Sitting dead upright on an Mtb could be really bad for your back, as all the jolts shocks will be going vertically up your spine, which is bad, and one of the reasons why cyclists lean forward. Leaning forward allows your back to flex as it hits rough terrain.
Seriously, try a Jones H bar, with say, a 70mm stem.It might be worth getting a test ride on a Jones Spaceframe, combined with an H bar, the weight distribution can be very light on the hands, but you will be leaning forwards in a normal riding poisition though.
My guess is, if you persist in wanting a totally upright position, you’ll continue having problems finding the right bike.

Is that upright position a normal thing for commuting and riding around town? I see it on a lot of town bikes in halfords and stuff lol.
That’s a really really good point. It could definetely be worse for my back in the long run. I’ve always struggled to see how people ride with drop bars and stuff without hurting their back, but I think I just haven’t tried it. I’m going to go out and try as many bikes as I can to figure this out. I haven’t tried many bikes at all.

The thing is though, the Jones Spaceframe and Spacebar are very expensive. I just don’t want to start spending so much money again. I’m kinda confused with what you’re saying about the Jones bars, if they sweep back a lot wouldn’t the bars be in a similair position as in much closer to the bars?

And yup I think you’re right, going to try and give the normal riding position a fair shot (:

howabout taking a daytrip and go an do some test rides at somewhere like Charlie the Bikemongers or Sideways?

Not a bad idea, I know they both specialize in fatbikes. I kind of just want to go faster and further, so I’m looking at getting a normal bike lol. There’s this bike shop not too far from me, that I’ve never tried but it looks utterly fantastic (http://www.cycleopediawatford.co.uk) I’m going to go check it out on the weekend! Any advice for asking for help? I feel bad about wasting their time if I’m not going to buy a bike so I’ll probably end up buying one from them if they actually help me find one that works!!

try persevering with a “normal” riding position. Changes take time to get used to (see the many threads on here about MTBers trying to get comfortable on road bikes) but it will solve many of your problems. Stretching may help but it’s mainly just getting used to it. Your weight should be split between saddle and bars, not all going through your sit bones. I agree with suggestions above that a basic bike fit should get you close enough to the right position.

You’ve all convinced me to do so!! I’m definetely going to persevere with it! Thanks for the advice and hopefully it will work out and and solve most of the problems (:

OfficerFriendly ~ If you feel comfortable riding upright, then ride that way. Most (if not all) of what has been said here about posture is either untrue, or unsubstantiated. Don’t bother with a fitting, it’s not necessary. You’re doing just fine, thinking for yourself, experimenting, and reaching your own conclusions. Question everything your are told about cycling and see if it actually stacks up rationally, isn’t just myth and legend, repeated so many times it has to be true. STAY THAT WAY!

If your cranks are 175mm long (like most mtb cranks) then they are probably too long for a person of your height.

That will affect your riding position, and quite probably your seat height is uncomfortable as a result

If you’re riding bolt upright, it may explain why your steering feels twitchy. MTBs are designed in the expectation that there will be some weight on the front, and lack of that affects the steering.

I have a mate your height and he rides a small Surly long distances, and I’m sure he also uses shorter cranks.

Do a search on bike fit. Quite a few of the custom bike companies have an online chart you can use as a guide.