Formula 1 2024 – WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS

brake checking just before DRS detection lines

This has been spinning around my head since it was posted; surely that’s an incorrect thing to do as it only brings the following car closer to you.  Or, what am I missing?

Wanting to be second across the DRS detection line, more relevant at some circuits than others, ones where the slipstream effect is powerful.

Although take that to extremis and we end up with Monza 2019…

Lando should’ve given the place straight back and given himself time to have another go at passing

or made the move 2 laps earlier and got 5 seconds on max before the checkered flag.

Derek Warwick was the race steward yesterday and frankly he should be doing a better job given his experience.

didn’t he say in the grid walk that he was hoping for a quiet afternoon. Doesn’t sound like he was too committed to the task

What Max did with late braking and running off at the exit is within the rules. The rules are wrong for that.

I’m not so sure. Here’s the full Article that is relevant (and is the one that was cited for Russell’s penalty); I’ve numbered the sentences purely for ease of reference:

1. Overtaking, according to the circumstances, may be carried out on either the right or the left.
2. A driver may not leave the track without justifiable reason.
3. More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted.
4. Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.
5. However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited.
6. Any driver who appears guilty of any of the above offences will be reported to the Stewards.

I think there’s a reasonable argument that Max breached the second and fifth points here. I don’t think it would have been outlandish to penalise both drivers.

I was surprised that McLaren made the call to stay ahead, though. To me looked a pretty safe bet that Norris would get a penalty regardless of whether Verstappen did or didn’t.

Other than that, I think Max did a sublime job of defending, while Norris didn’t appear to be mastering attacking. His car always looks very scrappy on corner exit, as if he’s just too keen to get on the throttle, and ends up compromising the straights. Then he ends up too far back at the braking zone and ends up with half-moves like the one that got him the penalty yesterday. I think it’s a safe bet that Max has the title in the bag now; I think neither Norris nor the McLaren pit wall are up to the job yet.

In other news: Colapinto very impressive yet again; Leclerc finally seems to be delivering pretty consistently on Sundays; Hamilton underperforming like never before. It’ll be very interesting to see their relative performances at Ferrari next year, but unless Lewis has simply mentally checked out this year—which I doubt—I’m starting to think Leclerc will be the top dog.

Leclerc finally seems to be delivering pretty consistently on Sundays; Hamilton underperforming like never before.

I think it comes down to Ferrari making a car that doesn’t destroy its tyres in five laps. Hamilton reminds me of Damon Hill and Villeneuve Jr. at the ends of their careers, they just weren’t a shadow of what they used to be.

It’ll be very interesting to see their relative performances at Ferrari next year, but unless Lewis has simply mentally checked out this year—which I doubt—I’m starting to think Leclerc will be the top dog.

I think Ferrari will be disappointed if Leclerc isn’t top-dog. He’s the future for them – IMO Hamilton is a brilliant marketing exercise that will bring Ferrari massive exposure for his last two seasons. I do think he’ll produce better results than Sainz though, and I’m really looking forward to seeing him in red next season.

I think Lando could have pulled out the required 5 seconds had he been more ruthless straight after the overtake.

From the outside it looked as if he was hesitant to break away from Max while still questioning the need to give the place back. If you look at the final corner Max was on Lando’s gearbox and Brundle/Croft questioned on commentary if the switch was about to happen. Had Lando got on with the job its not inconceivable that he could have found the extra 0.9s required to negate the 5s penalty.

Whilst Lando is exceptionally competent and likable, he seems to lack the shear ruthlessness of the multiple WC’s that have come before. McLaren too are also guilty of being too indecisive in certain scenarios.

and likable

Is he?

Hamilton reminds me of Damon Hill and Villeneuve Jr. at the ends of their careers, they just weren’t a shadow of what they used to be.

Hm, not sure. Hill suffered from Frank’s apparent policy of never having the number 1 on his cars, and then got the fear. Also, to be honest, even in his championship year I never saw him as one of the consistent greats; I’d compare him to Rosberg, taking two years of hard schooling from one of the true greats before finally beating them and kind of exhausting themselves. And Villeneuve I don’t think is or ever has been a barometer of anything other than himself.

Maybe a better comparison is Schumacher, though in his case there was a clear hiatus after leaving as a dominant force and returning looking distinctly average. At this stage Hamilton is an unknown: he’s had three years driving cars that have mostly been dogs, so it’s a question of whether he’s given up on Mercedes or given up on F1. I think he still wants his 8th title that he believes he was robbed of.

Whilst Lando is exceptionally competent and likable, he seems to lack the shear ruthlessness of the multiple WC’s that have come before.

Yes, though I’m not even sure he’s “exceptionally competent”, not by F1 championship contender standards: there was only ever going to be one way to maintain the lead at the start and he never chose it, and his close-quarters chasing still looks scrappy. He has great pace but still too many errors of racecraft.

As it happens The Race seem to have just posted a decent comment: https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/lando-norris-must-get-smarter-or-max-verstappen-keep-embarrassing-him/

Interesting thing about the Mercs. Both of the drivers lost control of the car with the new updates, but George, reverting to the older spec due to damage seemed much more in control come Sunday.

In quali, Hamilton made one small mistake on entry (at 7 or 8?)  which cost him 0.5s and dropped him to 19 from George’s 4th.  Fine margins in all the other sectors.   Hamilton isn’t passed it…yet.

The Merc just looked weird. At points it was absolutely flying, at others it just looked like it was on marbles. I think Mercedes still just don’t have ground effect sorted.

didn’t he say in the grid walk that he was hoping for a quiet afternoon. Doesn’t sound like he was too committed to the task

I’m sure this comment is related to “if all the drivers/teams follow the rules then there will be nothing for the stewards to do”

I hoped that after the successful track changes made at Austria, to avoid the track limit issues, would have been rolled out to other circuits. There needs to be a physical loss of time for going off-track, rather than some retrospective penalty.

Lets say Lando had made up the 5 secs, would have that been the right result?
It sets a dangerous president that you can cut the corner to get ahead

Max extends his lead over the weekend, and the RedBull has always been strong at Mexico, so barring a DNF the title is now a long shot for Lando.

so barring a DNF the title is now a long shot for Lando.

The title has always been a very long shot for Nando – I don’t think at any point (since McLaren got their act together) there been less than a 2 race victory lead? That’s a huge gulf in any championship, it’s just been reported as a title battle to make things seem more exciting

Hamilton has clarified the new upgrade had the impact of lifting one rear corner.   Analysis shows exactly that preempted by a 40kmh tailwind gust just as he turned in, resulting in the inevitable.

Russell raced the prior specification.

Mercedes had a very low downforce setup for last weekend which made them fast, but they were also running very low.  Lewis and George both seems to loose it as the car bottomed out, lifting the rear axle and ruining their corner entry.

…perhaps they need an adjustable bib! 😉

Chew

Max extends his lead over the weekend, and the RedBull has always been strong at Mexico, so barring a DNF the title is now a long shot for Lando.

Yeah, we need Piastri to go bowling à la bottas @ hungary ’21 🙂

This has been spinning around my head since it was posted; surely that’s an incorrect thing to do as it only brings the following car closer to you.  Or, what am I missing?

if your opponent is about to overtake around but not before the DRS line, they will overtake AND have DRS after. Brake checking means they still overtake, but if you do it right and let them through before the line, you’ll get the DRS to take the position back on the next straight.

plus it makes the other driver nervous around you, not knowing your next move

See Jeddah 2021 for multiple illustrations of the DRS tactic.

Anyhow, Mexico this weekend. Are we still expecting Perez to announce his “retirement” at his home race?

Yeah, we need Piastri to go bowling à la bottas @ hungary ’21 ?

This is how you protect a teammate

andrewh

This is how you protect a teammate

😀 one of the best Murray Walker clips that, brilliant

“And he’s going for 1st!” – well I guess that is one interpretation of that hand gesture

This is the Prost-Senna version of touring car battles.

I’d say that went more Piquet-Salazar 🙂

(Looks to me like the steering linkage of that front left broke on first impact…?)

I was at Silverstone the day of that Soper/ Cleland accident. There was a huge cheer, Cleland wasn’t the most popular driver.

I do miss 80s/90s touring cars and rallycross. Proper gloves-off entertainment both 🙂

It sets a dangerous president that you can cut the corner to get ahead

I guess it allows you to Trump the opposition though?

That’s so tru, man.

I don’t Ike where this thread is heading.

As soon as folk start lincoln names together, it all gets a bit taft.

I can’t think of my own president-based pun. I’ll just have to nick some of someone else’s

Rich_s

Full Member
It sets a dangerous president that you can cut the corner to get ahead
I guess it allows you to Trump the opposition though?

should have been biden his time

Let’s not beat around the Bush, if Cleland had Munroe shocks fitted then Soper would have found it harder to get by and he may have had a chance to Hoover up one of the last podium spots.

That’s the end of my presidential puns

I Reagan you’re all talking rubbish.

https://x.com/SkySportsF1/status/1849888449345495295

oh dear

See Russell binned it in FP2, that Merc is a real pig by the looks of it.  Shows how sensitive the cars are, slightly the wrong way and it’s down the grid.

I was at Silverstone the day of that Soper/ Cleland accident. There was a huge cheer, Cleland wasn’t the most popular driver.

Big fan of Soperman but that was criminal. Harvey’s title is worthless.

jimster01Full Member
See Russell binned it in FP2, that Merc is a real pig by the looks of it.  Shows how sensitive the cars are, slightly the wrong way and it’s down the grid.

I just watched the replay. Bit of a weird crash.  I thought at first he took too much kerb but I checked against last couple of years pole laps and it looked about the same, maybe a bit less.

Something’s happened to that car recently, no way are experienced drivers like Hamilton and Russell binning it 3 times in 2 race weekends. Bad update or something spicy taken off the cars?

Anyway sounds like they’ve had to replace a lot of stuff including the monocoque.   Lewis’ floor also got damaged in FP1.  Not great.

no way are experienced drivers like Hamilton and Russell binning it 3 times in 2 race weekends. Bad update or something spicy taken off the cars?

Same pattern we’ve seen from most teams with the new regulations. They develop a new aero package that gives great downforce in the windtunnel, but is too peaky to be useful on track unless conditions are perfect. Merc have been the standout team at that, cars that are unbeatable when the track temperature and wind are just right, but undriveable if the weather turns cloudy or the wind changes.