Forestry Commission Randomly Closing Trails

Does anyone here take any notice of FC signs or info on their website saying routes are closed "due to forestry operations" etc?

Recently walking above Strathyre there were signs saying routes were closed due to wind-blown trees. We ignored them and when we reached the allegedly closed bit, it appeared that the trees had probably actually fallen down years ago, with no apparant attempt to clear them- it was relatively straight forward to bypass them.

Wondering if the same would apply to the cycle track running along Glen Orchy which the forestry commission website says is "closed" with a fairly permanent feel about it. What does "closed" actually mean? Surely with Outdoor Access Code- you can go there if you want.

Thoughts/experiences please.

Perhaps you'll change your mind on the one day you go tootling up the trail to find an industrial logger working away. We were guided through a closed trail once right past one of these things working, and it was a scary sight.
AFAIK the signs are generally there to stop you getting your arms chopped off and I tend to pay attention to them. Or ride on real tracks where it's not a problem

😉

Obviously they are protecting themselves, they are either working in there making the area unsafe or the area is unsafe due to fallen trees, etc.

I'd carry on so long as they're not in there working at the time, just don't try and claim if something goes wrong and a tree falls on you or you're hit by a vehicle.

I don't mean at trail centres. I mean in bits of the countryside that just happen to be Forestry Commission land.

Forestry Commission land.

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it appeared that the trees had probably actually fallen down years ago

So the path wasn't just "randomly" closed then? And was actually blocked?

Had it occurred to you that they might be getting ready to bring in some heavy machinery and remove the trees?

If you fancy your chances coming face-to-face with some of this machinery, one of which has a blade at the end of its arm that can cut, turn, strip and cut a mature tree into lengths in a few seconds, go for it 😉

I rode past one of them machines in action once. Never again. The guy had zero chance of seeing me and the trees/logs were being thrown around like rag dolls. I waited for my oppertunity and absolutely pegged it past. I expect the guy would have had a few choice words for me too if he had seen me.

I only ignore diversions at night now. Hoping that the contractors have gone home and i am causing no grief.

Yes- on a Sunday afternoon in complete silence!!!

The point I'm trying to get some feedback on is whether the forestry commission are quicker to put signs up saying a track is closed than they are to take them down again once they've finished. My reference to Glen Orchy was in planning a longer route using the Land Ranger map- the track is clearly shown on the ground and if I hadn't looked on the forestry website, I would have just carried on regardless in planning the route.I do have the sense to also use my eyes and ears when out on my bike or walking and have managed to survive so far without walking underneath a bull-dozer! 🙂

Some years ago I worked for the FC at Kielder.

One of the blokes was driving alongside the edge of a fell that was being felled, about 150 metres away from the harvester.

The cutting chain on the harvester, which spins around at a couple of hundred MPH, broke – and a shard of metal from the chain took out the windscreen of the FC van, then embedded itself in the passenger seat!

so, feel free to carry on riding past the signs….

OK I'm sorry- I don't want to make light of industrial accidents in the forests. I'll leave this be and ask my question some other time- in a different form- it had more to do with general access issues and getting reliable information but I can see how the thread has taken this turn by the way I worded it.

BURN HIM!!!

😈

Flailing machines, tree handlers, log haulers etc all present a significant risk. Coupled with the environment they're working in it can be even more hazardous. I doubt anyone other than a potential Darwin Award contender would fail to realise this.

However, with reference to what I think was the OP's question, FE/C can be quick (or woefully late!) to put up signs and even more tardy when it comes to taking them down. Deliberate? Who am I to know but it has / can certainly be due to a lack of planning and co-ordination (or to anyone in a semi-professional position just bloody incompetent 😉 )

And the operator had just turned it off moments ago:

As if 😉

Very terminator-esque:

A Forester once told me the cabs on machines need to be effectively bullet proof in case bits of the chains let go. Doesn't bear thinking about :bleurgh:

it had more to do with general access issues and getting reliable information

If you want more specific information about what's going to be happening in a closed area at any particular point, the best person to ask is probably your local ranger.

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/forestry/HCOU-4U4HZV

However these guys tend to have a large range to cover and may not know exactly what's going on at every given time or location.

I once ignored a sign like that at the top of a bit of trail through some nice natural woodland. Because of the nature of the forest the FC weren't using and big heavy machinery to shift the timber, so instead of meeting a harvester or forwarder head on I instead ran into this:

Horse wasn't in the slightest bit bothered. I crapped myself.

Perhaps you'll change your mind on the one day you go tootling up the trail to find an industrial logger working

they do actually make so much noise it would be hard to happen upon one unless you were deaf…

pardon?

"tootling up the trail to find an industrial logger working away"

yeah i got lost trying to follow the diversion of skyline at Afan and ended up bypassing machines and climbing over fallen trees. was hilarious!

The section along Glen Orchy the OP is referring to is in Kenny Wilsons book for his route around Kinglass – noticed it is classed as closed but suspect in this case it is no longer maintained as a cycle route as it predates the 7 staines stuff.

I wouldn't have any qualms trying to use it tho it would be a pain to plan it into a longer route and find it was no longer passable.

I was out last Sunday exploring some high level tracks above L Lubnaig and Strathyre looking for options on return routes for longer rides that avoided the Sustrans stuff – some bits were soul destroying fireroad but there were some superb views and one decent descent from a circuit around Stank Glen.

I did ignore "no unauthorised access" signs which were for felling works tho there was nobody about on a Sunday.

Also climbed over a mile to a dead end – on a track which was marked as a through route on the 25K map – aiming for the descent path down to Strathyre from the west. Mind I've only walked it before – not sure if my bike skills are up to riding it

Funny that we had a Non Conformity Report filed when a rider on a closed bit of trail told a forester to bog off when a logging wagon nearly flattened him as he was trying to sneak past!

The FC are doing some work in Thetford Forest at the mo so part of the long red route is closed until further notice. I asked when that would be but the guy said the have to wait for the outside contractors to clear the felled tress.

Might I suggest going somewhere else. Commission land is working land and has several important uses, recreation being just one of them. If you feel that a route has been closed for a long time, ask your local office why. you may be told that the notices have been over looked. That's very easy in that type of situation. the notices are there for several reasons.Of course the main one is cretinous H&S based litigation fears but also because things can happen. clearance of an area can take a long time and too be fair it would be a lot to ask that all signs were put up and taken down every time the area was used.
I take it from your comments that you haven't got the answer you really wanted ie agreement that the Commission is totally wrong in these case. Sorry if I am wrong here.
Having said all that, locally I regard signs as indications as places to collect wood from and regard the Commission as a bunch of interfering outsiders, run from another country and staffed by outsiders who should bugger off back to where ever they came from.Leaving my local woods for those of us who were born there.
Contradictory? Of course 🙄
I have a feeling that areas of woodland being cut may not have total access according to CROW as that makes them a variation of arable land or something similar and thus exempt. Also the commission being to all intents and purposes a government dept may also have exclusions.
As I said ask or go elsewhere. You can come back next year.

mattsccm – Member

I have a feeling that areas of woodland being cut may not have total access according to CROW as that makes them a variation of arable land or something similar and thus exempt.

The OP was talking about a route in Scotland where the CROW does not apply. My take on it is be "responsible" and you can go anywhere.

In my experience from working with the FC on bike trails they may indeed be slow to remove signs or even forget to take some down but I'd still urge respecting notices if a closure seems out of date or otherwise unecessary then get the contact details for the local 'Beat, and drop them a line to get the lowdown. A lot of the felling works is now carried out by contractors who work to a price and may not pay the same attention to clearing up as we might expect. The FC also tend to be short on numbers and might need a prompt from a member of the public to prompt action on an issue that's dropped of their list.

usually they are closed for forestry operations…they dont cut trees down at weekends tho…the closed abit of the wall awhile ago because of a land slide.

"Kenny Wilson"

There's the issue.

we were up in Carron Valley installing trail counters a couple of years ago and had an entertaining conversation with a forestry contractor who was in working adjacent to the trail. let us know the safe distance to be near on of the badass harvesting machines and it was a long, long way away.

we also had some contractors in doing trail work at the time, so had blocked off cannonball run top and bottom with logs and an old section of chainlink fence in a frame (building site gates?) – all signed & website up-to-date. imagine our surprise when a rider emerged from the trail and claimed not to have realised that the trail was shut…

500m Marty…the safe distance from the machine according to the sign on the machine was 500m…also the glass is bullet proof and about 1" thick and the cab is reinforced just in case a chain snaps and flies off…

Oh man, I'd love a shot in one of those things…they looks seriously impressive…I know they aren't toys, but it would be amazing to have a shot of one.

Sorry, forgot that bit

Just to add, they can work at night aswell, BIG effin lights, lots of noise in the trees = dont go there.

Just to add an alternative view – I was at Grizedale a few months ago and they had shut off a section of the NFT due to forestry operations. We met some riders who said they had been on it anyway and there was no sign of any work going on so we rode it and it was fine – nothing going on at all.

Bit of a contrast to riding in Alpe D'Huez where we came round a corner to find a digger driver (and his dog) digging up the section of trail we were riding down! No warning signs anywhere to be seen.

We came across this monster forestry machine at the gethin downhill recently. Scary stuff!

I would doubt that the sign is forgotten, windblow trees create what to the forestry commission is considered to be one of the most dangerous risks to man after their machines in the forest – Hanging trees. Those that just lie on top of each other suspended waiting for their moment to finally comply to gravity's wishes. I have been out with FC and private foresters inspecting prospective routes for mtb races we had identified and they always get jumpy when we go near hanging timber.

The cost of removing such timber will be far higher than standing timber as chainsaw operators are not meant to use saws above shoulder height without additional equipment including harnesses, the effect of removing hanging trees causes the whole thing to constantly resettle, which if not done carefully can lead to injury or fatalities for the felling team. In addition any value left in the timber can be lost if not sawn in the appropriate manner.

Standard forest practise for England and Wales is if the windblow lies within extensive stands of trees then to leave removal until harvesting (There is a vast area of historic windblow blocking our old xc course in Clocaenog Forest right above the new Foel Gasnach Downhill track because of this policy). The only usual exception is if a defined public right of way is being obstructed or the area is well used by the public in which case they have to take the hit of the costs. I would imagine in Scotland where they to take into account the right to roam they would be having to clear every pile of windblow if all of the public took the view of the OP. Not erecting the closed signs on such paths would be akin to leaving loaded shotguns around on the ground, because although many may well leave them alone as soon as one goes off or someone is shot everyone will blame the forestry for not having taken preventative action.

We came across this monster forestry machine at the gethin downhill recently. Scary stuff!

We must pray it doesn't become sentient.

Just because they're not working at the time, doesn't mean that the area is safe, as there may well be snagged or hung up trees, either from felling operations or windthrow.

As in the original example routes were closed due to wind-blown trees. We ignored them and when we reached the allegedly closed bit, it appeared that the trees had probably actually fallen down years ago, with no apparant attempt to clear them

Windthrow is a high risk area, there are frequently hung up or partially fallen trees that can come down at any time, and the area of danger can spread unpredictably – in large industrial forests its often safer and more economic to leave them be, as felling trees in various assemblies of compression and tension is really, really dangerous – like a giant game of Mikado – they wont be quick to clear the signs for the same reason, that the danger has not passed!

Having had to go in these areas to work, I can promise you that every gust of wind sets things off creaking, and you shitting yourself waiting for something to come happen, a tree coming down in one part of the throw can easily cause something to move somewhere else, its really not a safe place to be, and for that reason they're right to try and exclude people.

some interesting pics here on what a shot chain can do –

http://www2.worksafebc.com/media/fss/harvester/slideshow.htm

Edit – dang, max headset has said pretty much the same while I was typing…