Footpaths – legal advice please

podge, any idea what year it was brought in? Interested if its a recent thing or dates back to the fifties and just becasme the status quo

I thought natural accompaniment was/is to prevent the “No I wasn’t riding my bike, honest!” excuse if someone does get caught riding cheeky.

can someone clarify what the Strava Worry is?

Strava worry discussed in a few other threads, is both the sharing of secret cheeky rides, and the urge of people cut corners and straight line paths to get the fastest time on a ‘section’. Apparently it allows timings on specific sections.

Personally i don’t think it will help people do anything they could not do before, but it might encourage the type of epople who straight line to get fastest time to do so (or put in extra runs to shave seconds), or increase the number of people on a cheeky path which at the moment is tolerated by community/landowner. Its a factor in the big world of factors, how big remains to be seen.

the urge of people cut corners and straight line paths to get the fastest time on a ‘section’

oh yeah seem to remember something about that last week.

the sharing of secret cheeky rides

well you’d be a bloody idiot if you uploaded cheeky trails that you wanted to remain secret* 🙂

*I’m torn on this, keeping them secret seems daft but I can see the reasoning.

Podge, do you know exactly which byelaw?

It would be exceptional for a byelaw to be written which extended to land not owned by the authority in question.

I think its more likley that there is a byelaw that covers council lands, and people are, ahem, ‘extrapolating it’ ultra vires.

and after chatting to the various builders during lunch, I have become aware that I’ve led a very sheltered life, as they all have done time in prison for assault, etc

No offence but you are taring all manual workers with this brush? My ex girlfriend and all her family are manual workers (pretty much); they are also cultured go to watch opera among other things like national trust visits. Handle themselves yes they can scrap and aren’t afraid to either; done time for assault no. You have employed a bunch of cowboys I reckon so don’t quibble over the extras they have done for you or they may be spending time inside for assault again.

On the Strava side of things…

Bad form to create a segment which uses a FP ? 🙂

My ex girlfriend and all her family are manual workers (pretty much); they are also cultured go to watch opera among other things like national trust visits

a little bit frightening and intimerdating what an accusation to the police can do.
i visit and work in many homes a week, and recently i was desterbed from my slumbers at 8am on a sunday morning by the boys in blue.. cop car outside the tts residence the lot and asked to accompany them to the station to make a statement.
so with judge judy who lives next door off we went.
it seems that a house i had visited had been burgled, and the occupier although absent during the crime identified me as the culprit. when i say recently it was 16 weeks before the crime and the crime took place almost 5 months ago!
but the tenant had obviously sussed me out as a career criminal by my close set eyes and so armed with her statement i spent a sunday morning answering questions about my desire for a 48 inch telly and various computer games and consoles.
obviuosly i was released on the basis that an eye witness identified a youth of about 16 wearing a hoody and pushing a wheel barrow was seen visiting the premises.
but i had a lot of explaing to do to the mrs and the landlord, who the tenant had happily advised i was arrested.
not an experince i’d relish again even if it did add a little colour to after dinner conversations.

The North Downs Way is a tricky one as it alternates between FP and BW. Never quite sure what to do on section across the Hampton Estate as this is officially FP and has the stiles etc. Tend to ride these days but used to push across it. Always go v slowly if there are any walkers though just in case.

Agree with Z11 re the Sheffield bye-law…

Can’t see any way that it could apply to non-council owned / common land

Never quite sure what to do on section across the Hampton Estate as this is officially FP and has the stiles etc. Tend to ride these days but used to push across it. Always go v slowly if there are any walkers though just in case.

Regularly ride that section and have never had anyone complain.

Important to remember that the 1968 country side act that allowed cycling on bridleways was amended (New Clause E) in the lords to allow pushing of bikes on footpaths:

“Lords Amendment No. 35: After Clause 26, in page 28, line 10, at end insert new Clause “E”: Any member of the public shall, subject to any orders made by a local authority, and to any byelaws, have the right to wheel a bicycle, not being a motor vehicle, on any footpath.”

This was removed when the act returned to the commons, not because anyone didn’t want this clause, but because it was unnecessary, you do not require law to allow something that is already legal. That was the view of the government of the day, I’ve not seen anything more recent that disagrees with that.

Individuals like this just like hating things and having arguements. Change the law and his petty hatings become irrelevent.

No they don’t you will still have to deal with people like him and their threats. You need to change the culture not just your law to enable people to have access to land.

true, but their entire “call the police” thing will be undermined somewhat.

It always has been an idle threat as trespass is a civil wrong at worst, not a criminal offence (with a few exceptions, such as military land etc).

“Trespassers will be prosecuted” signs – one of the first things law students learn are meaningless.

Not that I’m particularly encouraging civil disobedience, but most footpaths have been classified as such out of pure laziness, when a little research into their historic use would have shown them to rightly be bridleways.

Now, hanging dog poo on gate posts in blue bags, walking the 3 Peaks in groups of 200 and littering, those things should be punishable by um-bongo or worse.

I’m off to Spain and Andorra for the summer where and folk are cheerier (then Chamonix in July…..where not always so much so!)

There’s a footpath from Porlock to Porlock Weir that has a sign saying that riders (horse and bikes) are welcome to use it, but to consider the conditions before riding it. Very sensible and seems to work.

There is hope.

all the pies *slow clap*

As with anything, my standard reply/advice is to ‘expose yourself’ to them.

It might start a discussion, friendship or immediate end to the confrontation.

I missed this. No offence RichC but you obviously don’t know I’m legendary for being incredibly tight and I batter with almost anyone.

That’s because you got an estimate Hora, what you would have wanted was a quote, and they more than likely increased the amount when they realised what a muppet you are.

Try refusing to pay the quoted amount at the end of a job, and see what happens.

No it was a quote. Alot of them try it on.

Try refusing? I refused everytime the price was well over the quoted original price. What happened was I told them to talk to me throughout the job, any issues, anything they found along the way.

They still try it on. The funniest thing is none of them like to be paid anything traceable yet put ‘plus VAT’ onto the final amount. 😆

Anyway, slightly off topic.

Not sure on the Sheffield bylaw, I’ll try look it up tonight.

My understanding (though could easily be wrong) is that it’s along the lines of an addition to the definitive map which the council are responsible for so it can be applied whole scale.

I cant find the exact bylaw but reference is made on the Sheffield council website.

See the bottom of the page HERE

I don’t know where Sheffield got that from, Lord Justice Waller thought otherwise in Crank -v- Brooks: [great names]

[1980] RTR 441, wheeling a bike is not “riding” it, per Waller LJ,

“In my judgment a person who is walking across a pedestrian crossing pushing a bicycle, having started on the pavement on one side on her feet and not on the bicycle, and going across pushing the bicycle with both feet on the ground so to speak is clearly a ‘foot passenger’. If for example she had been using it as a scooter by having one foot on the pedal and pushing herself along, she would not have been a ‘foot passenger’. But the fact that she had the bicycle in her hand and was walking does not create any difference from a case where she is walking without a bicycle in her hand.”

BTW nickf, the footpath isn’t near Letchmore Heath is it?, There one there with a real Mr Angry living next to it

I’m having difficulty seeing the need to clarify pedestrian status in Cook v Brooks, wasn’t this the driver trying to wriggle out of hitting someone on a pedestrian crossing by saying they were a cyclist? Driver hit someone on a crossing ffs why does it matter the exact nature of their mode of travel? What about kids on scooters/roller skates/prams are they fair game coz they aint pedestrians and as such aren’t allowed assistance crossing the road?

<Edit> Also isn’t CvB only for pavements not actual FPs?
Liking the “no proper case law yet for natural accompaniment” sounds like a get out (for bona fide pushing not for full on cheeky).

I think that the Crank v brooks judgement is very much a segway in the discussion.

it was a decision on whether the bicycle was being ridden or not ridden on a pedestrian facility. It doesn’t begin to tackle the question of whether a bicycle is a carriage, and there is more than adequate legal precedent that a bicycle that is being ridden is both a vehicle and a carriage, the more tricky one is whether it ceases to become a carriage at the point where you are pushing it – and if you want to try and figure that out, you need to read Coates v Crown Prosecution Service 2011, which brings us back onto Segways…

The CTC’s opinion is pushing a cycle you are a pedestrian, biased but informed.

Amusing challenge a few weeks back near Petersfield.

Bridleway runs through gravelled drive in front of house.After opening the gate, the group decided to push rather than ride out of politeness

Cue Hoity Toity woman rushing out to tell us that bikes were not allowed on bridleways.

jonba – Member
I just don’t understand it. We got the same thing from the guy on the Ogwen in North Wales. Would spent his days following people and froffing at the mouth in a rage because people were on his river. If these people just stayed away and ingored the “problem” then the handful of people wouldmn’t bother them. I can’t see how it does any harm?

Always think of Winter hill when I think of daft footpaths. Why on earth are cyclist not allowed up this road?

Winter hill path

Fairly simple really, the reason behind it, in cold weather conditions ice forms of those huge cables supporting the transmitter – and when they thaw/wind blows hard enough massive javelin spaced lumps of ice drop on to the ground and potentially cleave you in two…

It’s H&S gone mad man!