Foooooook! Why can’t they name the fecker?!

Go and kill em them. The police won’t catch you as you have no direct link to them. What’s stopping you?

In a democratic country we vote and I bet one day in future a crime so heinous people will call for a change …

ernie_lynch, if it was a relative of yours would your viewpoint be the same?

With the overload of media violence we can devolve our ability to be outraged huh?

Why the mention of France? I was talking about different attitudes and how England/English would be outraged if a UK Prime Minister proposed such a ban- it was a parallel comment.

Whats really interesting about all of this is that the hang em and flog brigade steadfastly refuse to even acknowledge that ALL of the available evidence indicates that what they are suggesting DOESN’T WORK!! Worse than that the evidence is that what they are proposing is likely to lead to a increase in crime NOT a reduction.

**** unbelievably blinkered and stupid people!!!! Like I said before, insanity : Doing something that doesn’t work and then repeat it endlessly expecting a different outcome.

Why would I care if it worked? I want a fitting punishment.

Why would I care if it worked? I want a fitting punishment.

No you don’t. You want revenge. Makes you no different from those you want to punish, except you want to hide behind law to make it acceptable.

Why would I care if it worked? I want a fitting punishment.

If you don’t give a shit about wider society, which it seems you don’t, then why do you care so much about this victim/case?

so you are a murderer like he is then who does not even care that the muder is effective in anything other than the death of a human being

Frankly we need protection from people like you just as much as the person who comitted the original crime…you are both capable of murder

Yeah, we hide behind the same law and Christiandom whilst we passively support the collateral damage (active death of civilians) in foreign countries under the auspices of ‘war on terror’?

Oh please. Saying Im not better than the murderer. Really? What should we do? Rehabilitate them? Sorry, theres too much bleating on this thread for my liking.

now where did I put that soapbox…

Hora, so could you elaborate on the reasons why you wish to perpetuate, and in some cases even return to rejected or unsuccessful penal methods?

I’d love to know your rationale beyond the blatantly obvious trolling and your inate red neck tendancies.

Yes clearly I support the war on terror how perceptive as usual
Christiandom [sic] has some rule about not murdering iirc!!
Rehabilitate them? if possible yes if not they DONT release them
How can murder be bad in fact so so bad that the only punishment you can conceive of is murder ?
Two wrongs do not make a right
Something is either wrong or right and who perpetrates the murder is not the issue.
G – they dont care that it does not work they just want to kill someone who kills

Sorry, theres too much bleating on this thread for my liking.

All those nasty people on this thread beating up on me because they disagree with me…You do know this is an Internet forum?

But you hide behind layers/devolve responsibility and the law of the land?

return to rejected or unsuccessful penal methods

They were rejected inpart due to a lot of high profile miscarriages of justice. We are more advanced now. I dont care a jot about deterrent. If you are going to murder someone, chances are your either crackers/bonkers/madder than a box of frogs. I’d want life to mean life or another solution.

Now, how can you troll if your opinion is the opposite to someone elses? I don’t agree with the Judo-Christian-leftwing-STW-standard-thinking so that makes me a troll?

Again, if the person was related to you, I wonder if your stance would radically change or you’d think ‘good, thats him/her away for 10yrs’..

Sorry, theres too much bleating on this thread for my liking.

By ‘bleating’ you mean ‘thinking’, rather than advocating an animalistic urge for revenge.

And wtf is Judo-Christian? A Christian martial art? Tool.

We are more advanced now.

Oh the irony…

LOL at Hora just feel the blood lust

I dont care a jot about deterrent

If you are going to murder someone, chances are your either crackers/bonkers/madder than a box of frogs

There really is a career for you in criminology I beleive the University of Spurious Untested Assertions has an opening for you 😆

Nice Gag Grumm

I had a think about this after attacking TJ earlier.

It’s not really about the punishment, it’s about the deterrent.

If the only punishment for commiting a murder is to meet the mother of the person you killed (and get a hug)(TJ’s earlier link), or a nice comfy bit of rehabiliation, then where is the deterrent??

(edit – just seen Hora’s “I don’t care a jot”… Thats just silly innit.)

Why is this romantic urge to help a person that kills or murder or in the worst case scenario a repeat offender?

I mean it’s simply waste of time to rehabilitate a repeat offender. What is the benefit of that? They go out preaching to the other criminals not to commit crime? When do you think it is appropriate time the person stops? Three times? Four times? Forever?

Increase in crime due to capital punishment? In what sense? So are you saying that in a country has capital punishment people will inevitably go out to commit crime because there is capital punishment? Are you simply attributing more deathly crimes with a country that has capital punishment? How do you associate or narrow down to that single variable? Capital punishment = more murder? What about other variables that can be studied to help reduce crime but retain capital punishment for the worst case. No point rehabilitating some you know if they have the intention to repeat their killing habits.

Are you saying that because of capital punishment crime committed is likely to be murder because the criminals want to silent the victim/witness? What sort of correlation is that? Pluck it out of the sky? No, no … I bet someone interviews the “potential” killers as part of their data gathering process. Oh hang on … the researchers with their statistical software. LOL!

G:”Whats really interesting about all of this is that the hang em and flog brigade steadfastly refuse to even acknowledge that ALL of the available evidence indicates that what they are suggesting DOESN’T WORK!! Worse than that the evidence is that what they are proposing is likely to lead to a increase in crime NOT a reduction.

**** unbelievably blinkered and stupid people!!!! Like I said before, insanity : Doing something that doesn’t work and then repeat it endlessly expecting a different outcome.”

I am not sure where you got the data since capital punishment has been abolished for so long … bet you are comparing old data … Time change and like fashion it might work the second time. Care to give it a try for one or two generations? Put it to the voters.

Insanity? Most things have been done long time ago but we still repeat them albeit with improvement or to lesser degree of damage but we keep refining them and yes occasional bad decision which we blame the others. Perhaps the society has it too good for too long that it has forgotten that once capital punishment was the ultimate punishment. So it’s time to bring them back.

As our beloved King once said … “Off with the head!”.

If the only punishment for commiting a murder is to meet the mother of the person you killed

Is that actually what the scheme in the article was suggesting? Or a Daily Mail headline summary of it? The lad in question had also been sent to prison.

There really is a career for you in criminology I beleive the University of Spurious Untested Assertions has an opening for you

Indeed! After all, on STW all we seem to do is debate at GCSE-level on sociology or another similar level. Its the internet folks. Its one level down from a pub debate after all 😀 🙄

Well I’ve studied Sociology at degree level, and you are way below GCSE level Hora. 😛

grumm. No one studied Sociology surely? The people I knew on a Sociology degree were bigger p*ssheads than me!

all we seem to do is debate at GCSE-level

If this thread is up to GCSE standard then our education system is knackered.

Anyway, serious question, repeated – who gives a monkeys? Why do some people get their knickers in a twist about random crimes in the news (when they couldn’t give a toss about the other 99.999%)? Why the urge to spout idiocy on here about how hard they are / shout abuse outside courts / generally act like a retard? Is it because you were upset by hearing what happened and are too emotionally challenged to admit it?

I really don’t get it. Seriously, if the news upsets you, don’t look at it.

Sheesh.

chewkw – Member

I’ll type this slowly for you.

Murder : Crime unsolved. No difference to the crime rate between capital punishment and any other system as you haven’t caught the person.
Murder : Crime solved : The majority of murders are in fact known to the victim and only ever commit that one crime. No difference to the crime rate between capital punishment and any other system, as they had already committed their one offence regardless.
Murder : Serial Killer etc. When these people are caught they are not released generally. No difference between capital punishment and any other system as they don’t get released.

As a deterrent it clearly doesn’t work. Only one example necessary : Jolly Old Uncle Sam, which apparently is also inhabited by half wits like your goodself, and also has one of the highest murder rates in the world.

So at the very least there is NO difference between the two systems. However, more progressive systems recognise some basic truths about criminality and how it comes about. Accordingly pro-active penal methods aimed at nipping criminal behaviour in the bud does and will always reduce the number of serious offenders, who develop from minor crime. Contrariwise, sending young offenders into crime universities almost guarantees that their offending will become more serious.

Go away, read about it check it out for yourself. No need to take my word for it.

Now then about answering the original question posed in my earlier post.
Why is it you want to perpetuate or reintroduce a system which is proven to be unsuccessful. Yet to hear any sort of answer, apart from chest beating and teeth gnashing.

Have a nice day 😉

DezB – Member

I had a think about this after attacking TJ earlier.

It’s not really about the punishment, it’s about the deterrent.

If the only punishment for commiting a murder is to meet the mother of the person you killed (and get a hug)(TJ’s earlier link), or a nice comfy bit of rehabiliation, then where is the deterrent??

(edit – just seen Hora’s “I don’t care a jot”… Thats just silly innit.)

How would the death penalty have acted as a detterant in this case?

The link I put up about shows that for some people that sort of meeting is very useful. allows closure to the victims family and challenges the perpetrator. did you read it and see what the victims mother said about it?

hora – Member

ernie_lynch, if it was a relative of yours would your viewpoint be the same?

If who was a relative of mine – the victim or the murderer ?

Either way, I think it would be very safe to say that I would be biased.

Not really any great surprise is it ?

Which is why I wouldn’t be allowed to be on the jury dealing with the case. So what’s your point ?

.

I was talking about different attitudes and how England/English would be outraged if a UK Prime Minister proposed such a ban

But wtf has whether the burka should be banned, got to do with whether a 15 year old should be executed ?

Again, caller, what exactly is your point ?

.

BTW, if someone could prove to me that the death penalty would reduce the murder rate, then I would almost certainly support it’s re-introduction. Rather the life of a guilty, than the life of an innocent.

But of course it has nothing whatsoever to do with that, and everything to do with neanderthal knee-jerk reactions.

………..and an inability to preform complex tasks such as “thinking”.

LOL you are not wrong in that last statement

Ever thought the Mother did it? or even someone else?

Ok it looks as if he did it and I haven’t read if the case is finished.

The last thing we need is idiots and mobs of ppl attacking police stations and his family.

Innocent till proven guilty. Now you know why religion is around-to control idiots who want to burn ppl at the stake and stone him’ crazy folks.

Anger has no place in court. Only logic and truth.

Due
I wish I was as clever as some of you then life would be so easi.
What ever has been said here, my personal opinion is if an adult (not this case) kills a child in a heinous manner then that adult should be put to death. To release someone that has comitted that crime back into society means there is a possiblity that the criminal will do it again. Has ernie said, Rather the life of a guilty, than the life of an innocent. So in that case it would reduce the murder rate by one which is a start.
Any of you armchair warriors have stats on murders murdering again when released?
This case is comlex due to the alleged perpertrators age. But I dont think he should be released into society again full stop. He took a life he should serve life.

Surely in a capitilist society we should look to reduce costs by wiping out such individuals?

Why should we all have to pay (especially in a recession) for someone to have a secure future – free bed, board, no worries etc – for doing such a crime?

G: “Whats really interesting about all of this is that the hang em and flog brigade steadfastly refuse to even acknowledge that ALL of the available evidence indicates that what they are suggesting DOESN’T WORK!! Worse than that the evidence is that what they are proposing is likely to lead to a increase in crime NOT a reduction.”

It does not work? LOL!

What evidence? Those from the 60s? Are we still living in the 60s?

Commit a murder and off with the head! That will definitely work.

ernie_lynch :”…and an inability to preform complex tasks such as “thinking”.”

So off with the head for those that murder or kill. Simple. Can you not get your head around that. Commit murder = found guilty (blah blah blah all technical stuff considered) = off with the head. How complex do you want?

So off with the head for those that murder or kill. Simple. Can you not get your head around that. Commit murder = found guilty = off with the head. How complex do you want?

Yes I can get my head round that.

And you are right……… it is indeed a very simple suggestion.

Ewwwwww! Thats sharp Ernie!

But very very fair.

Chewkw : Have you read up on it yet. In fact have you done anything whatsoever apart from spewing out drivel?

I like how the “do-the-crime-expect-the-same” brigade are seen as the loonies when the real loonies are the ones who wipe out an individual and destroy others lives associated with them.

My friend is still deeply affected by the murder of her best friend over a decade ago. Its affected her relationships since, how she opens up and its upsetting for me as well as I am very fond of her.

Almost hit the nail on the head there Hora. Not quite but almost.

Looks like they’ve named him now, cos he’s been convicted of murder.

The story on the BBC site has almost made me puke and cry.

I don’t know about execution and all that, but I reckon a degree of misery needs to be ensured, greater than the degree of misery the murderer can currently expect.

Off with his head if Henry VIII was still around.

Guilty as hell!

I hope he is there for 40 years minimum or at least until he is 60 years old.

G: “Have you read up on it yet. In fact have you done anything whatsoever apart from spewing out drivel?”

No. Not yet. I prefer Henry VIII style though. Statistic or not … Off with the head! I will try to read them but I am not sure they will persuade me on heinous murdering crimes. Lesser crime perhaps but not for murderer as I have no interest whatsoever to see them rehabilitate. Waste of time and waste of space. They kill and should face the same consequence too. If others wish to follow by all means … off with their heads too.

I’ll take that as an admission of spewing out drivel then 😯