Folk paying at trail centre car parks…..or not!

The machine at one of my local spots has been ‘not in use’ for months now. Which IMO shows how much Forestry Commission Scotland value the income from parking charges.

I also don’t understand why some FCS locations I ride do have a charge, and others don’t. It seems to correlate with making bikers pay at predominantly mtb forests, but don’t make walkers pay where the trails are an even split of usage.

yacoby – Member

I don’t pay but I build. If you think any money paid in FC car parks goes on trails and you are pretty deluded.

Do you think forestry allow trails to be built because they think its fun, or because they think it will increase the footfall in the forest and hence provide them a bit of income?

Do you think they will continue to support trail building (or even just allow it) if they made nothing from it?

I pay at Gisburn if I use the car parks. Sometimes park at Tosside though as I live that side and when short of time starting from there lets me hit the Hope Line before doing the lower loop.

The Lake District fancy ones that read your reg plate when you drive in and out don’t understand German registration plates 😉
Do they use pan-EU debt recovery scum to recover unpaid fees?

only trail centre down here with a pay car park is haldon.. i’ve heard of people parking on the road – and if i were local i’d see why. they also have a “go ape” and separate walking trails. about 5 or 7 quid IIRC.

one of my friends never offers to chip in.. despite me having driven a good 50 miles each way to get there too..

@ stumpyjon good to hear and upkeep up the grand work at gisburn.

The local resident issue is a good one to hear as we/ MTB are seen as an imposition at the best of time so it is important to be responsible and respectful…use the carpark and keep folk happy as possible.

Bedgebury is £12 at weekends now!

Sure you can still argue it’s not much if you only go there once a year, but it’s still a rip off, especially for what the trails and facilities are. FC as well. They should be consistent around the country, and usually are.

Normally I’d be happy to pay a few quid for the day if I know something goes to trails and I’m paying for forest upkeep and facilities.

Swinley on the other hand always niggled me since they first announced it. The cheek was the application the council submitted which was advertised to the public. It said along the lines of “we have a budget black hole and need to find more money, and as we lease the car park at Swinley and see lots of cars there, ca-ching!”. Seriously, not in those words, but it did say they were doing it to fund budget deficits and how much money they expected to make from the place. They actually make more money than expected now due to increasing numbers from the new trail network and in particular from fines (which being council run, are enforceable).

That combined with the permit for regular users being £100 if you don’t live in Bracknell !! (FC annual permits are usually around £40 and give you extra benefits). Bracknell residents get a discount but that pisses me off too as it’s encouraging the lazy to drive there when they are near enough to walk/ride or catch the bus and bad for the environment cars doing local trips.

Thankfully I’m local enough to ride in from other places or from home.

Best one is Peaslake. Okay it’s not a trail centre, but the Hurtwood have been keen to avoid charging for parking and still manage to. They rely on voluntary donations to manage the place and keep the car park open, so I’m happy to do a regular donation to the Friends of the Hurtwood (there are also donation boxes in car parks and local shops).

(must say.. haldon, although the trails are a bit tame in some ways has very good loo’s, cafe and if you don’t have change you can pay in the rangers office)

I slighty resent the fact that in some car parks (Golspie, I’m thinking of you!) MTBers are asked to pay but walkers (and other visitors) not, despite there being a set of maintained trails for both.

I’ll pay unless I have no cash. But next time I pay at one and it floods, I’ll just leave my car to float off and claim on their insurance…

Ah the Great British Mountain Biker. Expects to be provided with trails and facilities to carry out their middle class expensive hobby but won’t pay for it, and then moans when the trails become a bit rough and bumpy because there isn’t enough money to maintain them…

I avoid paying for parking everywhere. My taxes have already paid for all these government funded projects so I begrudge paying twice. Also most only take cash and I live in 2016 so use cards and don’t really carry coins.

I bet you’re the first to get a round in in the pub!

The forestry commission are supposed to generate 75% of their own money through the forest estate ie timber and recreation etc etc etc, so your taxes haven’t already paid for it 😉

I don’t pay but I build. If you think any money paid in FC car parks goes on trails and you are pretty deluded.

At Aston Hill it does. I forget the actual breakdown, but the parking/riding fee is split between the Hill and the FC. The FC also then cover the insurance for the venue (which isn’t cheap in itself).

I can’t speak for anywhere else as this is the only FC-related bike park project I’ve been involved in, but it boils my piss when people moan about the centre but then park (illegally) outside to avoid paying toward any upkeep.

If they then drop litter it becomes the holy trinity of piss-boilers.

I avoid paying for parking everywhere. My taxes have already paid for all these government funded projects so I begrudge paying twice. Also most only take cash and I live in 2016 so use cards and don’t really carry coins.

Not sure if this is trolling, but I’ll bite.

Your taxes do next-to-nothing for Aston Hill. Aston Hill is run by volunteers on FC land but receives no FC or government funding. The FC is being cut to the bone, like all the public sector services. MTBing helps to bring money in which makes it a valuable commodity. Paying to ride at Aston Hill keeps it profitable and a worthwhile use of land for the FC, and consequently remains open. This attitude of “I’ve already paid for it” does nothing to help MTB centres – and consequently British MTBing – in the slightest.

Linn o Dee, while not a trail centre is full of nice Audi estates at the weekend, none of whom who pay, most of whom use the cludgies though.

Bedgebury is £12 at weekends now!

Is that because it’s part of a FC daypass? Thetford is similar, but for my family there’s so much other stuff to do it’s worth it. Just to pop out for a few hours spin is incredibly expensive. But then if I lived locally I’d buy an annual pass.

(must say.. haldon, although the trails are a bit tame in some ways has very good loo’s, cafe and if you don’t have change you can pay in the rangers office)

And if you don’t pay for whatever reason and someone checks the tickets, you’ll get a polite notice to pay £4 within two weeks! That’s the parking services on the top level 8)

annual FC pass for all FoD carparks = £23 seems good value for money

Your taxes do next-to-nothing for Aston Hill. Aston Hill is run by volunteers on FC land but receives no FC or government funding. The FC is being cut to the bone, like all the public sector services. MTBing helps to bring money in which makes it a valuable commodity. Paying to ride at Aston Hill keeps it profitable and a worthwhile use of land for the FC, and consequently remains open. This attitude of “I’ve already paid for it” does nothing to help MTB centres – and consequently British MTBing – in the slightest.

Well said. Glentress trail fairies aren’t funded by his taxes either.

^^^^^ on the Glentress point,is there any official FC Trail Maintenance, or is it all voluntary trailfairy work ?

Pimpmaster jazz well said and chapeau to you

Llandegla is now owned by the Church of England. So if you don’t fancy paying the parking fees just offer an extra £ at the collection tin next Sunday 8)

where. My taxes have already paid for all these government funded projects so I begrudge paying twice. Also most only take cash and I live in 2016 so use cards and don’t really carry coins.

The sense of entitlement is strong with this one..

^^^^^ on the Glentress point,is there any official FC Trail Maintenance, or is it all voluntary trailfairy work ?

ChrisL or Northwind will answer that better but I think FC provide materials and tools etc and fairies provide the muscle. In terms of major official new stuff eg Carls Lane, Cool Runnings I imagine its FCS funding and constructing or their contractors.

7 quid at haldon for a day or 30 quid on a season pass. that pass gets you paring at other sites too IIRC.
volunteer passes are good for all FC sites AFAIK. 8)

Ah the Great British Mountain Biker. Expects to be provided with trails and facilities to carry out their middle class expensive hobby but won’t pay for it,

Had a similar conversation with someone who couldn’t see why I should need to volunteer. “No other sports expects participant’s to maintain the facilities”. Clearly no idea how grass roots cricket/football/rugby etc etc manage to exist!

Pawsy_Bear – where do you get one for the FOD? Would be great if it’s that cheap!! Thinking of getting one for Cwmcarn too as those two places would cover 90 percent of my trail centre riding.

7 quid at haldon for a day or 30 quid on a season pass. that pass gets you paring at other sites too IIRC.
volunteer passes are good for all FC sites AFAIK.

any idea which other sites? i don’t visit haldon regularly enough to commit and where i usually head out from on the quantocks (holford, staple plain sometimes lydeard) don’t charge..

as far as grass roots goes. i’m hoping to get in the mix digging at triscombe once the FC have finished their current work. i don’t ride those trails much and am not very well connected to it yet (i do know a lot of ‘faces’ through their bmx past and my skate past). alos, last time there was a dig day they had very limited numbers involved and slots filled fast.

Have to say, a few quid is just about manageable in change, though I do carry very little cash these days, especially coins. £5 / £10+ though is a pain in the backside unless they accept cards (but probably charge a fee for that).

Haldon seems to have shot up a lot in price. I’m usually there once a year and it’s a shock each time but I don’t see any major improvements. Facilities are nice, sure, but what’s justifying the price hikes?

And on frequency, if it’s only occasional visit, it’s not about affordability, but being sure it’s value for the money per visit. I don’t like wasting money or seeing money being wasted.

Someone told me at Dalby only 50% pay which I was pretty shocked by, that’s across all users.

It’s tricky, somewhere like Stainburn gets a lot of caual traffic that will go away, people who stop for 45 minutes after work, but do so couple of times a week, all year. So some form of season pass would be good.

bigjim – Member

^^^^^ on the Glentress point,is there any official FC Trail Maintenance, or is it all voluntary trailfairy work ?

ChrisL or Northwind will answer that better but I think FC provide materials and tools etc and fairies provide the muscle. In terms of major official new stuff eg Carls Lane, Cool Runnings I imagine its FCS funding and constructing or their contractors.[/quote]

The Trailfairies don’t do all the maintenance at Glentress. The MTB rangers do maintenance too and as you say, some work is done with contractors.

During a conversation last year with an FCS employee who’d know these things, they were pretty emphatic in stating that car park income wouldn’t remotely fund the MTB side of Glentress. Austerity and drops in the wood price have not done any favours to the FCS’s overall budget, either.

ChrisL, thanks for info. I used to ride GT every couple of weeks but haven’t been this year. A mate was saying he was there on sat for first time in ages and had seen some changes, and signs of a lot more wear on the red route.

iainc – Member
ChrisL, thanks for info. I used to ride GT every couple of weeks but haven’t been this year. A mate was saying he was there on sat for first time in ages and had seen some changes, and signs of a lot more wear on the red route.

Maintenance on the red route can be hard to judge, what some regard as necessary repairs will likely be decried as sanitisation by others. It’s impossible to keep trails in a fixed state, they will inevitably wear down to fairly rough surfaces before getting repaired back to fairly smooth ones, so on average over their lifetime they’re about right.

Given the current manpower and budget constraints it may be the case that more maintenance is getting left until it must be done than when it could be done, but that’s speculation on my part.

To veer back to the original subject of the thread, I actually have a permit for parking at Glentress due to the time I put into the Trailfairies but I pay for parking at other trail centres.

[Edit] Given I’ve managed to spent quite a lot on a new MTB and on a trip to the Alps this year, for me to quibble over car parking charges for UK trails would seem churlish at best.

Swinley is £2 for 4 hours which I think is fine and it takes cards. The annual ticket is steep at £100 though when Cannock is £40. Locals only pay £50 I think, which doesn’t include me although I’m only 10 minutes or so away down the country roads.

I do stand by what I say, if it’s an FC project or a council car park it’s already been paid for and as a socialist I don’t see why I should pay for state provided services.

milky1980 – Member

Pawsy_Bear – where do you get one for the FOD? Would be great if it’s that cheap!! Thinking of getting one for Cwmcarn too as those two places would cover 90 percent of my trail centre riding.

Hadn’t realised you could buy a season pass for CC, but it seems you can – £50 a year, I might get one for the sake of convenience, the only mild stumbling block being it covers other places I don’t visit, which isn’t an issue in itself, but with councils continually evaluating viability of sites, i’d want them to know I bought it for the MTB centre…

Given there’s one organisation that funded the various sites and one organisation that maintains them wouldn’t it be great if you could buy a season pass that covers the 2 Afan Sites and CC, but that would require two councils to work together… it would be a great data source to help evaluate visitor numbers.

I do stand by what I say, if it’s an FC project … it’s already been paid for

But it hasn’t.

It doesn’t help that not all charges/venues are equal.
If I park at GT for the day my £5 not only gets me access to the trails, but also to changing rooms and an onsite cafe. In fact I went and parked there for a road based ride in the borders for exactly that reason.

Other places the same £5 gets you nothing other than parking.

Personally I always pay, as £5 for a day out is still great value for money compared to nearly anything else.

munrobiker – Member
I do stand by what I say, if it’s an FC project or a council car park it’s already been paid for and as a socialist I don’t see why I should pay for state provided services.

Did you refuse to put stamps on letters prior to 2013 too?

munrobiker – Member

I do stand by what I say, if it’s an FC project or a council car park it’s already been paid for and as a socialist I don’t see why I should pay for state provided services.

What if they decided they could only afford to build a new project if it got some additional funds to support it. You are in favour things just not getting built instead?

socialist I don’t see why I should pay for state provided services.

With that remark you just come across as tight!

I do stand by what I say, if it’s an FC project or a council car park it’s already been paid for and as a socialist I don’t see why I should pay for state provided services.

😆

How very capitalist of you.