First narrow wide and now this…..

…what will they adopt next? Cartridge bearing hubs?

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/shimano-sm-cn900-11-speed-quick-link/rp-prod147138

Blimey! Welcome to 1998 Shimano!!!

ha ha

They’re releasing their xD freehub at the beginning of April.

In their defence, if you can be bothered with the occasional strip and regressed, cup and cone bearings are the superior choice.

Jeez. About time too!

They did one a while ago. It was shit so they reverted to the pin.

There is no defence to cup and cone – they wear each other out which means you need a new axle/hub.

The sensible alternative is you pop in some bearings. Quick, cheap and easy.

njee20 – Member

They did one a while ago. It was shit so they reverted to the pin.

The irony is, most Shimano chains are made by KMC, so rather than making their own all they had to do was tick a different box on the order form.

Trimix – Member

There is no defence to cup and cone – they wear each other out which means you need a new axle/hub.

Not really. Looked after, they last for a very very long time, as long as the parts are decently made. If you wear a decent cup-n-cone hub out quickly, it’s something you did wrong.

Shimano did cartridge bearings in the original saint hubs I think with a cup and cone too so as to not admit defeat.

Looked after, they last for a very very long time, as long as the parts are decently made. If you wear a decent cup-n-cone hub out quickly, it’s something you did wrong.

Just like their HTII BB’s such a wide range of ways for the user to get them wrong and trash themselves.
It may be fractionally better but the dowsides son’t go away.

Trimix – Member
There is no defence to cup and cone – they wear each other out which means you need a new axle/hub…

Only if you don’t oil them. I think there’s a few of us on here who own bikes from the 1930s and older. Keep a cup and cone oiled and it can last for ever.

Onzadog – Member
They’re releasing their xD freehub at the beginning of April.

That’s the main reason I won’t have their hubs, moreso than cup & cone.

Trimix – Member

There is no defence to cup and cone – they wear each other out which means you need a new axle/hub.

I’ve never seen a decent cup and cone hub wear out – plenty corrode through lack of maintenance of course.

B@lls – I hate magic links, much prefer the pins.

ferrals – Member
B@lls – I hate magic links, much prefer the pins.

Name an advantage of the pin?

cynic-al – Member

I’ve never seen a decent cup and cone hub wear out – plenty corrode through lack of maintenance of course.

I just retired a set of 90s exages. That’s not exceptional in itself, except, they were owned by teenage me, who thought the way to straighten a wheel was with a wooden mallet, then used for years by my younger brother, Captain Neglect. Still going though.

Incidentally; cup and cone hubs can sometimes have the races replaced, I did it myself to a set of abused SLXs. All it took was a sufficiently big hammer.

Northwind – Member

All it took was a sufficiently big hammer.

If that’s not a motto for life I dunno what is

Name an advantage of the pin?

You can probably get a replacement pin in place at the trail side with a chain splitter on a multitool

Trying to get an 11 speed quicklink on or off without the proper tool is a massive pain in the arse

ferrals – Member

B@lls – I hate magic links, much prefer the pins.

My favourite mechanic in my favourite LBS is exactly the same.

I trust the guy completely, but not when it comes to chains. Every time – be a new bike or a bit of maintenance – he fits a SRAM chain, and hands my the powerlinks “didn’t use ’em” because he’s pushed the pins back in.

I ride, it fails, I install the link. It’s a fun game we’ve been playing for over a decade now.

KMC 11-speed links go on just like the old ones (but pro tip- if you have a link you can’t get to clip on, you can usually pull it in just by getting the link into the top run of chain, putting the back brake on, then leaning on the pedal. Ideally with a brave assistant squeezing the plates and trying not to get their fingers trapped. Failing that, roll it onto the front ring and bop it with a rock, the chainring teeth will spread it.)

Never had any urge to remove a quicklink at the trailside tbh!

Never had any urge to remove a quicklink at the trailside tbh

This. Why would you need to remove one on the trail side?

Why would you need to remove one on the trail side?

If you destroy a mech or hanger without snapping a chain and want to take the chain off to freewheel down the hill. Sure you could drive a pin out but that would be a bit wasteful on a perfectly good chain.

I’ve seen quite this scenario quite a few times over the last few years.

BoardinBob – Member

You can probably get a replacement pin in place at the trail side with a chain splitter on a multitool

Trying to get an 11 speed quicklink on or off without the proper tool is a massive pain in the arse

Never had a problem fitting a quick link. Push together, use a bit of tencion on the chain to click into place.

Splitting – again, never had an issue, but the situation is no different if you can’t split it, split with a chain tool, rejoin with another link that you carry instead of a spare pin.

…what will they adopt next? Cartridge bearing hubs?

To be honest, if they could be bothered promoting and extending the range of wheels with their new ‘digital adjust’ bearing system they wouldn’t need to go cartridge.

All the benefits of cup and cone without the downsides (i.e. the trial and error bit when tightening cup and cone with only one pair of hands and no vice 😕 ).

The other advantage of C&C hubs is they take the load in the axial plane too, although that’s no such an advantage in the real world because hubs end up being over-engineered for other reasons anyway (big axles to keep them stiff mean big bearings). But in principal they’re the better solution. shimano’s seals are a a bit lacking through, why can’t we just have a half decent seal that clips in rather than the rubber boot which just falls off?

Splitting – again, never had an issue, but the situation is no different if you can’t split it, split with a chain tool, rejoin with another link that you carry instead of a spare pin.

Indeed, but the point was that if you can’t split the link at the trail-side (which supposedly can’t be done with 11s), what’s the point? You may as well use a pin (which is cheaper).

All the benefits of cup and cone without the downsides (i.e. the trial and error bit when tightening cup and cone with only one pair of hands and no vice ).

Get it almost right, but slightly slack, then nip it up the last 1/8th to 16/th of a turn just using the opposing outer locknuts. Never fails.

I can’t wait for their oval chainrings….. 😳

Get it almost right, but slightly slack, then nip it up the last 1/8th to 16/th of a turn just using the opposing outer locknuts. Never fails.

True, it was never really all that hard, but digital adjust is even easier 8)

Yes, cup and cone bearings may last forever in a clean environment with regular maintenance but for regular off-roading in UK conditions wheel bearings and the races they run in have to be on the list of consumable items.
Tapping out a pair of sealed units is so much less faff than stripping out axles to clean the grease and grit out of C + C assemblies.