First Look at new 6-Bar Scott Ransom

The new Scott Ransom continues the ‘hidden shock’ vibe but this time adds another linkage into the mix. It’s two louder.

…

By ben_haworth

Get the full story here:

First Look at new 6-Bar Scott Ransom

“Ok – headset routing, internal shock, internal cables, integrated bar and stem, weird headset spacers, proprietary shock, massive lockout lever.

Is there any way we can make it more of a maintenance nightmare?”

“How about more bearings?”

Seeing stuff like this pushes me closer and closer to buying a rigid Stooge.

Scott giveth with one hand and taketh away with the other.

Every Scott bike I see is like a checklist of features that I never, ever want to have on a bike.

can someone explain a 6 bar linkage please?

is it a similar system to that found on the old felt virtue bikes? just to keep the ‘dw’ type linkages from separating?

 

Just nope.

Surely it needs a ‘NOT AN EBIKE’ sticker on it to explain why you’re getting annihilated by eebs on the climbs? Downtube size and clumpy DT-BB junction scream out ebike to me.

can someone explain a 6 bar linkage please?

have you been around long enough to remember the arguments about the differences between a four bar (spesh FSR etc) and a linkage driven single pivot, often called a faux bar (which was just a single pivot but you could put the shock in different places)?

well its the same thing but with more bearings. you can get a true 6 bar linkage which has some benefits for being able to independently adjust (the frame designer, not you the owner) how the different kinematics of suspension movment act on the shock. I think the Yeti ebike is one of these.

or you can get a fake 6 bar, which is just a 4 bar/fsr, with two extra links driving the shock allowing you to place it in a different location. This Scott might be one of these.

By mechanical engineering definition they are both a 6 bar mechanism (just like a faux bar was a type of 4 bar mechanism) but in bike terms they are different and really should have different names.

IMO the shock makes more of a difference anyway and its all moot because I’m not a good enough rider to tell the difference, so buy a bike that looks good (which this is not).

Scott giveth with one hand and taketh away with the other.

Feels like a lot of takething and not much givething on this one.

So, how many separate bearings are there and how difficult are they to change, bearing in mind the frames are mostly carbon? Lovely looking though..

Looks like they’ve combined the current genius/spark setup with the Bold VPP bottom bracket pivot but the open rear triangle needs tying together so used the same idea as felt but without the silly igus bushes that wear out the dog bone.

 

So, how many separate bearings are there and how difficult are they to change, bearing in mind the frames are mostly carbon?

No one who buys one of these new is doing any maintenance themselves. They’re probably not even paying a shop. It’ll just be replaced with the latest model.

Looks similar to yeti sixfinity

I really like the look of it!

There’s only two on the Enduro team but I still feel sorry for the mechanic, they might need therapy at the end of the season.
I need two paracetamol just looking at it and trying to figure it out.😀

No one who buys one of these new is doing any maintenance themselves. They’re probably not even paying a shop. It’ll just be replaced with the latest model.

Even the people who buy the £4.5k base model?

£4.5k – A mental price for a base model!

@DaveyBoyWonder Stooges are fantastic, awesome bikes – I’d just buy one anyway 😜

A mental price for a base model!

That has the same, carbon & fully integrated, frame as the £8.5k range topper? I wouldn’t say that was too bad. How much is a base model Porsche?

Some brands won’t even sell you an aluminium frame for less than 5k now

That’s gopping. In an over designed step away from the cad package NOW way.

If haibike did analogue bikes…

Is it a 5 bar linkage with a sixth linkage driving the shock?

Not wanting to split hairs, but

That has the same, carbon & fully integrated, frame as the £8.5k range topper? I wouldn’t say that was too bad.

The Ransom will come with 5 different models featuring the Ransom 900 RC (Racing Concept) in HMX carbon as well as a range of Ransom hybrid models (HMF Carbon Mainframe/Alloy rear triangle) including a dedicated Contessa version

Doesn’t sound like it.(link to Scott’s site didn’t work for me to check)

Ah ok, only briefly looked at the specs, didn’t see any frame details

Original point still stands though, people buying 4.5k bikes aren’t having their butler take it to the shop for them, or just buying a new one when it needs a service.

A face palm in bike from, just gives me a headache looking at it.

That has the same, carbon & fully integrated, frame as the £8.5k range topper? 

910 is hmf front and alloy rear.
RC is HMX front and rear.
Having had the previous generation 900 tuned, 910 and 930, all built with the same forks, shock wheels cranks etc, the full hmx bike is significantly better.

911 vs 944 I suppose 😉

Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

can someone explain a 6 bar linkage please?

is it a similar system to that found on the old felt virtue bikes? just to keep the ‘dw’ type linkages from separating?

Same as a Specialised Kenevo SL.

So, how many separate bearings are there and how difficult are they to change, bearing in mind the frames are mostly carbon? Lovely looking though..

How many folk actually change their own bearings on FS’s, especially carbon ones?  I don’t, and TBH the price charged by my LBS vs how often they need doing it’s just not worth the risk of screwing it up.

Those that do, do you do it for fun or to save cash – and do you also home mechanic your cars too?

Yet to see a single Scott bike on the trails(with the exception of some duff XC hardtail type things)…who buys these things?

I’ve seen a few of the integrated shock bikes at Hamsterley and Gisburn, and the owners seem very happy with them from chatting at trailheads etc

So, apart from the looks (whether you like it or not) are there any advantages to this? I hate internal routing, but I appreciate some (most?) folk like it when done well, and the big hole in the downtube would surely be useful.  Does the internal shock keep it clean and free of mud, or does it scoop it up into the bearings and make it all worse?

I’m guessing all that weight low down is good for stability…so that should be a positive.

Internal cable routing is a terrible idea and just makes easy jobs painful (and not easy). Integrated headset cabling is a step way too far for me as that seems even worse.

Keeping the shock shielded is probably sensible to keep it cleaner, but it then adds to the faff when it comes to servicing.

If you do the work yourself then it adds hassle, if you hand it to a shop then it adds time, which means higher bills (unless the shop is doing very well and happy to not charge for their skilled workers time).

It looks sleek and tidy (probably another positive) but it isn’t for me…I do a bit of spannering on my bike, but the internal cabling and shock stuff puts me right off.

Those that do, do you do it for fun or to save cash – and do you also home mechanic your cars too?

I don’t trust bike shop ‘mechanics*’ to not **** up any job way worse than I could.

On my car, I used to do all my own spannering but now I just give it to a garage.  Suddenly finding you need a particular part with the suspension in bits is no fun.  Garages have the advantage of just being able to ring their motor factor.  Also, at least with garages you know that the mechanics there have had some training and aren’t just the Saturday boy who is sick of dealing with customers and feels like a change.

*There are one or two bike shop mechanics who are exceptions but none of the ones I know are living in the same country as me at the moment.

I was putting a new frame bearing kit onto our website the other day and it had a total of 18 bearings in it. To replace the whole lot in one go would be really really expensive so I had to list what each linkage contained so they could at least order those on their own.

Mega post incoming, but I feel I have something to add! To Clarify – at the end of 2022 after much to-ing and fro-ing based on the kind of comments we see above, I bought the new version of the Scott Scale which uses the same Syncros style Headset design, routing, integrated cockpit idea etc.

End of last year, I purchased a Bold Linkin, with all the same tech and more. To put it bluntly, if even half of what everyone seems to afraid of with headsets and routing were true, I wouldnt have gone back for more would I. To answer a common question, no, you are not ‘stuck’ with using Scott/Syncros parts – all the components to run either the integrated cockpit, or any old regular stem and spacers, are included with the bikes. Brendan Fairclough will be running his usual DMR bar and Stem on his this year…

Also bear in mind, these have replaced an Orange, and a steel hardtail. I always build from a frame, and I do all my own DIY. Theres absolutely nothing that is not DIYable.

The Bold is, to all intents and purposes, The Lexus to Scotts Toyota. They are made in the fame factories, using the same technology, to the same standards, using the same bits – As posted when I did my ‘NBD’ this just confirms that Bold are effectively the prototype arm of Scott. The longer travel Unplugged Enduro bike would be the equivalent to the Ransom, my Linkin at 135 or 150mm travels sits between the Spark and Genius (which lets not forget was Bike of the Year 2023 for STW mag!).

The Linkin and Unplugged are slightly different in that its a 4 bar with a solid triangle. Scott have gone for the extra linkage presumably to add a little more shape to the axle path, probably at the very end of its travel.

However the similarities are clear, there are shared components too based on the photos.

Every Scott bike I see is like a checklist of features that I never, ever want to have on a bike.

Thats what I used to think.

Looks like they’ve combined the current genius/spark setup with the Bold VPP bottom bracket pivot

Not quite – the Spark/Genius have an upright shock driven by the top linkage. The Bold, and now this, use the lower link to drive the shock. The entire BB shell is a beautiful machined adjustable piece that rotates on huge bearings, with preload adjustment, and in the case of the bold two different linkage/cranks to allow for 2x travel options. This is one of the key parts of the whole design, getting the shock lower, COG lower, and crucically for someone my shape, allows for a very deep seattube insertion on a relatively small seat tube. I now have 190mm of drop (and could get away with 200 if I was always using SPDs) combined with the long reach of a large – whereas even on relatively progressive bikes such as SC and Orange I could only ever get to 150mm.

I’ve seen a few of the integrated shock bikes at Hamsterley and Gisburn, and the owners seem very happy with them from chatting at trailheads etc

My experience too, in particular the Sparks, lots of them about near me and when I asked how they are getting on all the owners can only rave about them.

So, how many separate bearings are there and how difficult are they to change, bearing in mind the frames are mostly carbon?

I can’t speak for the extra rear most pivots (at the axle) on the Scott, but most of it is accessible and in the linkages not the carbon, just like a Santa Cruz –

I had mine completely stripped bare to inspect and check as part of the build and dont foresee any issues, no different in maintenance to any other FS bike once you get part somehting like my old Orange.
The lower link in particular runs on lovely large bearings, hidden away and with a preload ring like an old XTR bottom bracket.

So, apart from the looks (whether you like it or not) are there any advantages to this?

Storage. CofG (and yes I am convinced I can feel it). And the aforementioned incredible hardtail like dropper post compatability. Also:

Does the internal shock keep it clean and free of mud, or does it scoop it up into the bearings and make it all worse?

Exactly that. I’m not that far in, only a few months, but the shock still has the ‘fresh out the box’ look and the original light protective oil on it. No dirty black tide mark giving away how much of a mincer you are or arent!
Adjustments to damping or pressure take only one extra thumbturn fastener on the hatch lid compared to an external shock (looks like a push button on the Ransom).

I am not going to say its for everyone or claim its the second coming of christ. I am also well aware of the potnetial confirmation bias going on here and hints of fan-boyism but honestly starting with the Scale last year, Scott have gone from a brand I had little to zero interest in, to one that I can see is really class leading in terms of design, execution, finish & build quality and execution of the brief.

Those that do, do you do it for fun or to save cash – and do you also home mechanic your cars too?

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance kind of thing isn’t it.

There are those who want to understand what they’re working with and have the knowledge and tools needed to keep it functioning, and those who don’t care because others can fix it. I think most of us know which camp we’re in and it’s a personality thing.

I’d say my main gripe with so many bikes and the industry generally now is the march towards dictating which camp we need to be in (though snotrag’s post is important, what we perceive as a faff may not be and willingness to learn how things work varies – and any motorbike is more complex than a mountain bike). With e-bikes it’s inevitable that we can’t fix everything but with regular bikes it’s a choice or option, or should be. I think it’s fair to say that bikes used to give more people the satisfaction of being able to understand what’s going on and service them themselves than they do now – whether the gains in styling or function are worth it is subjective. In the case of the Bold hidden shock layout here I’d be happy to get to grips with it, seems like a great design.

Aha, lbs has been teasing this… looks good.  I’m not the target market, nor could do it justice anyway, but I’m sure they will sell and will be seen out and about.

Internal cable routing is a terrible idea and just makes easy jobs painful (and not easy)

It really honestly doesn’t make any difference at all to how long it takes to change cables on either my Yeti or the Specialized. Most bikes these days have internal guides, and you just push it through, same as pushing it through frame guides. Headset routing seems to be a bit form over function, but adds what? 1/2 hour to a job…who really cares?

So, how many separate bearings are there and how difficult are they to change

FSR Spesh bikes have had 14 bearings for as long as I can remember…going back what? Maybe 15 years or more now. I can (if I get a hustle on) change every single one in just over an hour including the super awks double blind ones on the chain-stay (why Spesh, why?). But even if you can be arsed to do bearings yourself – and admittedly I struggle to build the enthusiasm, roll it into the shop, hand over your CC and roll it back out again…Job jobbed.

can someone explain a 6 bar linkage please?

Looks like a 4 bar type setup with a convoluted linkage to actuate the shock (To me)…

It’s lovely I’m sure but the mixture of complicated suspension parts, internal/integral bits and proprietary parts just puts me off more than the looks could ever make up for…

Do I think the Random looks nice? Yes, I certainly do.
Would I ever buy one? Not on your Nelly. I don’t like all the complexities and integration.

It looks kind of like someone’s nailed a horst link to an idrive. I love its overall looks tbh and I agree that internal routing isn’t that big of a deal if it’s done right- if you’re a magazine tester or a magpie then sure, it’s a nightmare but how often do you personally replace a brake or even a cable? Especially an internal cable outer that’s only exposed to mud at the tip? Cables and hoses can get damaged, sure, but the more internal they are the less that happens. And with a lot of designs changing a cable inner is basically the same as it is with external routing.

So much of it is about bad design- if your idea of “internal routing” is something like an orange swingarm where it’s basically just a loose cable rattling inside a box with awkward grommets and absolutely zero thought given to how you fit it, then sure it’s noisy and a pain in the arse. If it’s something like my old Remedy, with everything well controlled and thought given to installation, it’s a nothing, it’s like 1 minute longer to fit a cable and maybe 5 to fit a brake. You basically only have to prevent one incident of cable/hose damage in the entire life of the bike to make that a positive instead of a negative.

My grumpy self wants these things to be simple. But my idea of what simple is has changed over time.

Every Scott bike I see is like a checklist of features that I never, ever want to have on a bike.

Exactly that. A load of pointless features, that add nothing but headaches.

I’ve seen and spoken to enough people who work in these things who get the rage, even thinking about it. I’m not sure many shop mechs have anything positive to say about them,or the quality of some of the component parts they use.

I have no idea who even buys these bikes. So many better options out there, without all this sh*t design, most of which are cheaper too. 😆🤦‍♂️