Finding an extra 5 seconds? (Warning DH related Content)…

I had my first DH race in 3 years this weekend and While I had a great time and was very happy I’m getting back into it, rather than Heading up the bottom third in my Cat’.

I’m not looking for race wins just to put myself in the top half of the field which would have needed me to find another 5 seconds this weekend,

Now I know my overall fitness is currently pretty poor and I’m taking measures to address that, but there’s also the issue maintinaing my riding ability with 2 kids, a full time job, house to maintain, etc, etc and the general lack of spare time that obviously comes with that.

I certainly thought this weekend that I was let down a bit by my general nerve/skill/confidence/judgement on the bike.

So how would you optimise one half day ride at weekends and the odd night ride (this is realistically about what I get time for) to really improve your riding?

Any and all suggestions gratefully recieved…

Intervals?
I would have thought they would be perfect for DH style race training.

I’m a fan of interval training to get me up to sped at the beginning of a season. But I’ve never raced downhill.

Get a fifteen/twenty minute run in every/most morning/evening.

definately fitness. could pedal your way to 5 seconds on almost any course, let alone the extra control you’ll have in the latter half of a race.

I doubt you were bottom third because of your fitness unless you were done and sitting down by halfway down the course. five second spread between bottom third and top half suggests it was a short course anyway.

you need to go round corners faster. simple.

Do you ever stop too ‘session’ certain section of a track until you get it perfect?

Obviously its not possible on every downhill track as you will be in the way but its great for Technique and should help you lay off the brakes more and get cornering perfect, this will save you time!

Other than that a bit more fitness but that wont help if your always on the brakes.

and you wont be going round the bottom corners fast if you are trying hard enough as you’ll be tired from doing the top ones right.

hence fitness.

Pump tracks…..
Great for explosive fitness, endurance and bike skills. Rail those Berms, nab speed from every rise and fall in the track and fun….did I mention fun?
Got to be more fun than running nowhere on a treadmill.

or… NOT pumptracks.

alright for casual fitness, but most folks either back it off to a pace where they can pump all day long (ergo not really training)

or do two laps at a decent pace then stop for a natter/pie/fag (ergo not really training)

you need to go round corners faster. simple.

That.

More time to be made up going round corners faster & laying off the brakes more, unless it was a huge pedalfest of a track.

take your brakes off.

if you have 2 hours a week to train you can get huge fitness gains for DH

Practice not slowing down. Take those fingers off the brakes and grip the bars. The bike wants to roll relax and roll with it.

fitness isnt 100% about pedalling.

all this talk of corner speed etc. deosn’t mean crap when you are down the bottom of a 3 or 4 min course and hanging out of your arse, unable to hold your head up from bashing off the bars.

fitness first, finesse later.

can’t say I’ve ever seen fitness win over skill at a DH race before…

+1 jam bo

XC racers are very fit, doesnt mean they are anygood at DH, The more speed you can carry the better! fitness will help though with things like arm pump etc.

I’m not really on about fitness training, more keeping my eye in with regards to handling the bike when generally short on time…
Fitness wise I’ll be upping my cycle commuting, doing some running/night rides in the evenings perhaps and maybe even joining a gym again (not keen on the gym TBH), but I’m generally very time restricted at the minute and I’m conscious that as much of an adonis as I might become it won’t help me nail corners, jumps and drops other than helping combat fatigue…

boxxer 7 – interesting points, personally if I’m practising a specific course for a race I’ll tend to Session my way down once or twice then try to stitch together some “feet up” runs and maybe one or two race-ish paced runs, that all assumes you’ve got the time/energy, I only really had time for 2 full practise runs and a little bit of sessioning this weekend, so one feet up sighting run and a second with some pace, before sitting about for ~1hr then race runs, I suppose you do need to be aware of fatiguing yourself too much during practise or getting too cold waiting for your run (well you do if your me)…

And yep, definately out braked myself at a couple of points where I knew better, which is really the issue I’m getting at with the question I suppose…

Ultimately I know it’s all down to time on the bike, but I don’t have alot of time, so I’ve got to come up with a bit of a strategy to make what I do have really count…

Currently with a 3 year gap in racing, no real training, and a bike setup that still needs a bit of tweaking perhaps, I’m placing bottom 3rd of the field, so I reckon it’s feasable to be looking to improve to mid table by the end of the season…

I’ll happily sign up for a skills course, but again that means clearing a day (probably at the weekend) a long way in advance and clearing the funds with the missus (tricky ATM)…

My Local woods are a reasonable place to build/maintain skills although not amazing – 20-30 second runs but not hugely steep, plenty of technical sections tricky courses, some roots, jumps kickers that you need to think your way through (especially in the wet) but for sustained runs

It doesnt have to be the actual track you are racing, even at your local you could try and pick somewhere you think you could do better and hit it again and again until you either come off at which point that will be as fast as possible or you really dont feel you can go any faster.

Did you walk the track first?

It’s easy to lose 5 seconds with a couple of mistakes, you need to do a full run (preferably following someone just a little bit faster) and see where your problem spots are, then practise those. Normally it’ll be the same sorts of things (flat turns, off camber sections) that there are a million and one videos online to help you think about technique, and you’ll know what to concentrate on down the local woods.

In fact the local woods are a good answer – so long as you run back up every time!

or… NOT pumptracks. alright for casual fitness, but most folks either back it off to a pace where they can pump all day long (ergo not really training) or do two laps at a decent pace then stop for a natter/pie/fag (ergo not really training)

That’s because they are NOT training. If you ARE training, then obviously you may have to apply a modicum of self-discipline and use your time there.

You can run as far as you like and yeah, you’ll get fitter, but bike skills will be improved only by………riding your bike. Kill two birds…

try and love the flow, look for free speed on the course – pump sections make the bike move smoother, try some tough HT rides and look for better lines.

Riding hard tail really improved my full sus riding.

Try a 1:1 coaching session Jedi in the south, Ed or Nigel Page in the NW, I did a session with Craig from cyclewise in Whinlatter, massively improved my riding by showing me my faults and working through them.

Remember to enjoy it though 🙂

Practise your weaknesses.
And fitness does make a massive difference.
It’s a different kind of fit to xc though, more explosive strength.

“can’t say I’ve ever seen fitness win over skill at a DH race before.”

what about skill plus fitness? what would that win over?

i gave up on this thread when i saw it was going down the cock wavey fitness doesn’t mean owt, look at xc riders etc etc route…

glad there are some people that can see what i’m getting at.

look at the top half of the results table at your next DH race. then look at those fellas.

how many of them are fat knackers?

I have not trained for DH racing but have trained for sports with a similar requirement on speed, commitment and fitness. The key component for competition was always fatigue technique training, doing a full on endurance session to fail followed by a technical skill session when you are completely knackered.

People make mistakes when they are tired, if you can eliminate those mistakes then you will make significant time gains over a course.

Hard intervals for fitness. Tabata?

Section / session tracks. Repeat a corner again and again until you’re railing it. It’s what the pros do. If you’ve got a friend who is in a similar boat, watch each other to make sure you’ve got feet down etc etc.

Try http://rocksteadymtb.com/ they do downhill and freeride skills course.

Need better times: pump the drops and pedal where ever you can. On race day if you are finding a section hard stand there for 10 mins and watch everone else, are they using a different line, different speeds etc….

Section / session tracks. Repeat a corner again and again until you’re railing it. It’s what the pros do. If you’ve got a friend who is in a similar boat, watch each other to make sure you’ve got feet down etc etc.

+1

look at the top half of the results table at your next DH race. then look at those fellas.

how many of them are fat knackers?

I never said the top guys arent fit. I bet even the likes of brendon and sam hill can be found on a road bike off season.

but if you are currently in the bottom third of the field like the OP is then it is highly unlikely to be down to fitness alone.

I’ve got a mate who rides a bike once in a blue moon, smokes, drinks and it generally pretty unfit. turned up our local DH series a few years back, placed in top ten with one practice run. pure, natural, wasted talent.

IME, on short course dh tracks, fitness rarely has anything to do with it, it is all about skill and being able to carry speed through the slower, more technical sections.

My advice, as others above have mentioned, is to practice maintaining your speed through corners (lean the bike over not yourself, stay low, look at the exit of the corner not the entrance etc), feathering your brakes only when you absolutely need them, picking the correct line and sticking to it, keeping it smooth and flowing, un-weighting the bike through rough sections etc.

You also need to be aware how sections lead into one another and the line that gives you the best entry into the next section: Look at F1 drivers and you’ll see that if they mess up one section, that will mean they are slower through the next section.

It also boils down to holding your nerve and being fully committed, but that should come once you sort the above out.

Obviously, on the longer DH tracks, fitness does come into play; in which case intervals and sprint training would help.

I’m certainly not suggesting that fitness is of less importance or that I don’t believe i will contribute to improved results but I was more interested in how people efficiently train their brain/muscle memory to consistently read trails and put it into effect (Technical training if you like), a large part of your performance will always be driven by fitness, I think people are getting hung up on the focus of my initial question and (as ever on STW) choosing to missunderstand what I’m actually interested in, or tell the OP their asking the “Wrong” questions…

Training is never a single form of excercise, I’m fully aware of that I shall be addressing my woeful fitness also, but I’m keen to look at targeted technical training too, a skills course or two is probably going to be booked at some point (Firecrest @ aston hill are probably most local for me)…

The other interesting point a couple of people have raised is the management of fatigue, which I didn’t really touch on before, a different issue too I suppose, both in terms of extending riders resistance to fatigue, strategies to avoid/reduce it and finding ways to cope and continue to ride effectively when it sets in…

Interesting that so many seem to be keen on short section sessioning rather than putting together full runs in practise, I see value in both and do both (as well as the obligatory course walk) but I wouldn’t consider racing down a course i hadn’t ridden in it’s entirety at least once, for one thing it gives an indication of how much the course will beat you up and tire you out and you get an idea of what sort of speed you’ll actually be carrying into each section rather than looping in at a lower speed and getting a false impression of your approach in the race run…

Anyway Some useful input (some not so) many thanks all…

i gave up on this thread when i saw it was going down the cock wavey fitness doesn’t mean owt, look at xc riders etc etc route…

glad there are some people that can see what i’m getting at.

look at the top half of the results table at your next DH race. then look at those fellas.

how many of them are fat knackers?

Of course it means something, however, at a regional/local level DH race, the difference isn’t being able to pedal for 2 minutes solid. The difference comes from being able to ride a bike fast.

I know some very fit guys who also ride, and race DH, to a reasonable standard. They still get smoked by other people I know who are better riders, and considerably more unfit.

Personally I don’t find sectioning whole tracks works for me, apart from a couple of areas. Sometimes on a bit I struggle with i’ll pull over to watch a few riders, and try a couple of lines, but otherwise it’s just a case of trying to increase speed until I feel i’m there or there abouts on a reasonably clean full run.

you need to go round corners faster. simple.

this X10.

Corners, corners, corners. The way into, through and exit.

Practice different types, and walk the course before the race, take a good look at the different lines available.

do what tracknikco says he made some girls swoon whilst riding his bike on sunday. true story.

buy more equipment from you local bike shop, maybe invest in some off road skills too, maybe a troy lee d3, chris king wheels, carbon bars, dc or monster socks pulled up to your chin, 5ten shoes, smith or oakley goggles but not bolle goggles, some pajamas that say fox or troy lee on etc….

but seriously fitness

In no particular order:
Lay off the brakes
Practice your cornering
Ride more (!)
Practice riding with more flow
Look further down the trail
When you ride, batter yourself
When commuting, sprint in between each set of lights
Do squats

I was more interested in how people efficiently train their brain/muscle memory to consistently read trails and put it into effect (Technical training if you like),

Get yourself an Xbox/PS3 and MX Vs ATV Alive and play online at night until you can consistently win stacked Pro races.

I’m serious BTW

Get yourself an Xbox/PS3 and MX Vs ATV Alive and play online at night until you can consistently win stacked Pro races.

I have no words

dc or monster socks pulled up to your chin

^^ does actually work

you seemed to have plenty a few minutes ago

If you can, find some people a bit quicker than you, and chase them.
No point in trying to follow the really quick boys though, you’ll just get dropped in a second.
And the fitness thing, it’s not about pedaling solidly for two minutes, it’s about how much power you can get in a five second sprint out of a corner forty times. Oh, and not being so shattered you can’t remember the line through the last section.
Main thing is though, enjoy yourself.

dc or monster socks pulled up to your chin, 5ten shoes

I don’t wear socks or shoes, to get better grip on the pedels. 😈