Fast road cars

There it is again.. fascinating.

What I always found fascinating was the number of people in vanilla diesel supermarket hacks and asthmatic superminis that would drive like their underwear was on fire the minute they saw something clearly a bit special. They outnumbered the kids in their Max Power pride & joy by 10 to 1.

+1, and try to speed up as you overtake

There’s also the guy who proclaims to love driving so much they don’t want a ‘fast’ car as they will speed everywhere, so that have a boring passat/mondeo/vectra/whatever. I can never understand that. There’s a guy at work like that.

I swapped the head unit for a Sony touch screen as the standard fit iPhone set up drove me mental! Still got it to fit back though.

I’ve no problem with mods but when I see an untouched mk2 16v, series 1 rs turbo etc against a modded one, I know which I’d have. Just personal choice I suppose.

I used to have a Pug 306 GTi, I guess it’s not *that* fast by today’s standards. The most satisfying part was giving it a squirt on the M1 to get past a particularly annoying pillock in the middle lane, and feeling the ‘go’ even at 70. The most fun part was windy B roads – and again, it didn’t have to be over the speed limit to be enjoyable.

Nowadays I drive a Toyota Highlander – V6, AWD, and again, being able to feel the shove at 60mph is reassuring. And with the Canadian winters, you can have a ton of fun at <20mph just going round corners.
I’m idly looking at S4s or something similar as a second car now…

cobrakai – Member
Ben_h, a friend got rid of his mk5 r32 for a mk 7 gti. He says the gti is quicker and better handling but he weeps when he hears mine. I oblige him by revving a lot.
^^ I almost bought a Mk7 GTI about a month ago.

I decided at the last minute to live a little and to go down the tuning route with my R32. The upfront cost is obviously substantial, but it’ll cost less overall than any new car of even 2/3rds the power – and of course I’ll have the presence, feelgood factor and knowledge (mainly to myself!) that I have a real sleeper.

The fact that I’m a 34-year-old sensible dad of 2 with a boring career etc just adds to the fun! No 320d in recession white for me…

The R32 sounds amazing, especially with a non-resonated Miltek on it. I’d never get bored of listening to it. They were on my list when I bought the 330 but they were more money, heavier on tax etc for no extra performance. Just a better noise. I also couldn’t find one in budget with the bucket seats that reminds d me of the ones in the RS4.

Fast cars are more than just fast. It’s an attention to how they work that those who are interested will notice. Our fastish car (when new, but a bit average now, 944 S2) rides better than newer motorway cruisers I’ve owned or driven, corners steadily with great traction out and an ability to pull hard in any gear, anywhere on the tachograph with some good noise.
Wife probably gets more out of it within the limits as she struggles to get it in 5th (although 3rd will have you at motorway speed with revs to spare).

Previously had a Mx5 mk2 that was good to fling in and certainly benefited from being lighter. Cheap Corsa bought as an interim was good too as driven with no concern for its longevity.

I think my car is pretty fast, and I love it. However it does 8mpg and I can’t get my bike in it. But hells teeth does it go…

Fast cars are generally going to cost a lot more to buy, tax, fuel and insure, as well as any frustration from wasting 90% of their capability…
Most cars spend 22 hours a day parked up so the more £££ you spend on it, the more you’re wasting…
Buy a cheap car and a really nice bike for the same overall ££? In town, cycling’s generally faster anyway 😀

Or buy both! Just don’t try to put one in the other…ahem

The Fabia is roughly the same weight and power as an XR2 that was once considered a boy racer car, in fact due to the turbo diesel torque it’s probably faster in most situations.

But it won’t be. Not even close.

My CDTI has more torque than the Type-R it shares a body with, care to bet which one is quicker (I’ll give you a clue, it’s not the 100hp emphesemic).

Sorry but your 1.4 Fabia isn’t fast by any stretch of the imagination nor can I really see you using so little of it’s power unless you regularly transport open containers of nitroglycerine through Holland. My diesel regularly gets the foot to the floor (apart from anything else it serves as preventative maintenance to the VNT vanes) and struggles to overtake anything without a 20mph differential and a decent amount of road.

Also, XR2 is more powerful and lighter (94hp, 800kg vs 80hp, 1130) so not sure where you got those figures from.

I find it odd that people are saying how good a car is by how fast it is in a straight line and how many cars they can overtake.

To me that just smacks of people with insecurities and the car gives them power.

Good cars are those that are a joy to drive on empty roads where every corner is an event and you can easily take the car beyond its level of grip.

I’ve never driven a Ferrari etc, but I bet they are pretty crap on the roads as you can never really get to their limit of grip safely

Sorry but your 1.4 Fabia isn’t fast by any stretch of the imagination

Fast is relative. We aren’t all boy racers.

I find it odd that people are saying how good a car is by how fast it is in a straight line and how many cars they can overtake.

To me that just smacks of people with insecurities and the car gives them power.

Really? Why on earth do you think that?

I have a quick in a fast line but awful in corners type car (A6 V6 Quattro with 250 BHP). I have it because I like powerful cars (always had small fast cars like 1275GT Minis, XR2s, Pumas, Clio RSIs, TTs etc) but now have a young family so need a practical car. I am not at all insecure in any way.

I’m not sure it’s insecurity, but it’s quite odd that people can be all grown up and mature generally, but still get a kick out of the fact they can go faster than someone else.

I mean going fast is fun, I completely understand that – the visceral thrill of acceleration can’t be denied. But why the comparison with other cars and even their drivers?

You only have to look at What Car to see whose car is faster – it’s a clearly defined and well known statistic.

What smacks of insecurity to me is the need to belittle someone else’s interests by feigning a lack of comprehension of those interests.

Anyone who’s driven a properly quick car will know that straight line acceleration is supremely exhilarating. But acceleration is very, very rarely the only “trick” in the car’s repertoire. Apart from purpose built dragstrip cars, a car that does the 0-60 sprint in less than 6 seconds will have suspension, tyres, brakes etc. to provide handling characteristics that complement the power. It’s just that the power is one of the main things that defines it.
A Defender 90 will go round a corner perfectly well but that’s not the stand-out feature you’d use to describe it to someone else. Just as a 911 will potter about happily at 30mph. That’s not what grabs the headlines though.

It’s not often Molly speaks sense…but most blokes I’ve met have fast(er) cars, not so they can go fast per se, but it’s so that they can go faster than “someone else”

Isn’t that the not so unsubtle point of fast cars?

Good cars are those that are a joy to drive on empty roads where every corner is an event and you can easily take the car beyond its level of grip.

If you’re right (which you’re not) then car companies have wasted millions/billions on making cars that CANNOT be easily taken beyond their level of grip. It’s also known as making them ‘safer’.

I’ve never driven a Ferrari etc, but I bet they are pretty crap on the roads as you can never really get to their limit of grip safely

You sound like a danger to other road users.

nickc – Member

It’s not often Molly speaks sense…but most blokes I’ve met have fast(er) cars, not so they can go fast per se, but it’s so that they can go faster than “someone else”

It’s not really revelatory this; Most times when mine is doing more than a 2000rpm lazy cruise, it’s because it’s overtaking. I use the performance for fun sometimes but it’s mostly useful for more easy and safer overtaking of Peebles coffin dodgers and other slow movers. Going faster than someone else doesn’t imply racing, it just means you want to go faster than someone else

There it is again.. fascinating.

What I always found fascinating was the number of people in vanilla diesel supermarket hacks and asthmatic superminis that would drive like their underwear was on fire the minute they saw something clearly a bit special. They outnumbered the kids in their Max Power pride & joy by 10 to 1.

alt view

intresting how many fast cars/marque brands really get miffed and speed up when an innocuous looking car overtakes them………….

are they threatened?
are they demonstrating their ‘power’?
are they Clarkson-esque?

……..Spike Milligan had a mini tuned up in the 70s to a ridiculous level, used it for seeking out rolls royces and other fast cars, would pull up next to them, wave and speed off leaving them for dead, laughing as only Mr Milligan could….

driver of innocuous souped up car.

I bought a 3.2 v6 a3 a couple of months ago as I’ve started commuting to work a short distance (25miles each way on a roads)..

For me its the best compromise as it’s super comfortable, the initial cost was cheap (50k on the clock 06 – top spec everything sline £5k). It’s the dsg model and I’ve never had an auto before but when I went to test drive it I was blown away – it’s flipping ace and the flappy paddles and manual shift are good fun when you want to feel more connected.

It does struggle to ever see 30mpg … might get 33mpg at 65 on a motorway but I didnt buy it for that.

I figure I’ve got a lot of fuel to spend as I’ve saved a lot on the price of the car… equiv spec in something more boring from audi in the a3 range would be closer to 10k.

Oh and 250bhp via a v6 is frikin ace!

I didn’t say it was “fast” by todays standards, an XR2 wouldn’t be either.

They started life as a 80something horsepower btw and the car weights were notoriously a work of fiction.

I owned both a mark one and two both were fun at the time but utter crap in comparison to modern hatchbacks without sporting pretensions.
If you gave me choice of a car to cover a good distance in as short time possible the Fabia would be a much better choice every time.

The point being is that modern cars.. even basic ones are way more capable than UK road conditions allow you sensibly utilise them, making “sports” cars unnecessary for practical purposes.

There primary function is establishing status, maybe aesthitic and fun for those who like that sort of thing.

As others have said if you want something that gives the illusion of speed with a massive grin factor, then get a kit car. Lotus 7 types are great but there are others available which would be worth a look. The Arial Atom was at the top of the Top Gear lap times board for a long long time.

I think there are few different types of drivers

Drivers who want to be quicker than the other car
Drivers who want that sensation of driving quick
Drivers who want the sound of a V or screaming revs
EDIT: There are more types

I am Driver #2 & #3: Personally I am not a huge fan of cars similar to the RS4, you have to be going damn fast (twice the speed limit) for it to feel quick. Driving at normal speeds is like most other normal cars.

Take an old car like a Mk2 RS2000, driving at 30mph in a 30 zone feels fast, it feels more like 50mph and yes the speedo is correct. It’s more than speed, it’s the fact that you get the sensation of driving fast, while still being within the speed limits.

When deciding on a car you need to ask yourself which driver are you.

If you are driver #1 and want to drive fast, prove to yourself that you are fast, take it to a track.

Completely standard mk2 3dr 16v small bumper here. Love it – it’s tiny compared to newer hatches & goes like a rocket (relatively speaking) from 4k. I’ve even cleared out the garage so that it’s got somewhere warm & dry to live.

There’s also the guy who proclaims to love driving so much they don’t want a ‘fast’ car as they will speed everywhere, so that have a boring passat/mondeo/vectra/whatever. I can never understand that. There’s a guy at work like that.

I like driving and I drive a dull, but capable diesel Mondeo. I do that for practical reasons not because I fear for my lack of self control and observation skills. Money no object rapid rear wheel drive German estate please Preferably six cylinders and petrol. In reality 20k a year and other priorities for cash means I stock with the Mondeo, which is a pleasant place to spend a journey and very capable at all the essentials

Having owned much quicker more fun cars there is still pleasure to be had from driving even a dull box well and with precision. It’s just a different kind of cchallenge.

I like driving and I drive a dull, but capable diesel Mondeo. I do that for practical reasons not because I fear for my lack of self control and observation skills.

Perhaps I wasn’t describing you then? I’m sure there are very good reasons why you drive the car and the way you do, and I’m sure your pleased with it and there’s nothing at all wrong with that. However I’m talking about a very specific but common personality type I come across that drives a boring car and justifies it by saying if they had a quick(er) car they would lose their licence.

I thought i’d got a farily fast motor until i went for a spin in a mates RS6 avant (V10 lambo jobbie), 653bhp and the way it builds speed is unreal! Everything is relative but the want now from sitting in this thing is just like a fat lip from a automotive presenter 😯
There’s a unemployed presenter in us all right? That said i’d have my old MK1 mex back any day!

bamboo
What did you do on the p1 project max torque? Who were you working for?

I did the hybrid powertrain development/calibration (not on my own obviously, i’m good, but not THAT good… 😉

I like driving and I drive a dull, but capable diesel Mondeo. I do that for practical reasons not because I fear for my lack of self control and observation skills.

Perhaps I wasn’t describing you then? I’m sure there are very good reasons why you drive the car and the way you do, and I’m sure your pleased with it and there’s nothing at all wrong with that. However I’m talking about a very specific but common personality type I come across that drives a boring car and justifies it by saying if they had a quick(er) car they would lose their licence.[/quote]

Sorry my post came out badly I didn’t think you were describing me! 😀 I was in the process of agreeing in a very roundabout way but a combination of the edit cut off, my stop on the train and a 3g black spot meant it didn’t get on here!

In many respects those people may be better off in their more restrained vehicles if their observation skills and self control are so weak 😉

I’m not sure it’s insecurity, but it’s quite odd that people can be all grown up and mature generally, but still get a kick out of the fact they can go faster than someone else.

I mean going fast is fun, I completely understand that – the visceral thrill of acceleration can’t be denied. But why the comparison with other cars and even their drivers?

Why race bikes? Why use Strava? Why buy a longer travel bike for the downhills? Why shave weight off wheels, frame, components? Why train to get fitter? Why buy good quality kit and clothes? Why attend a skills course?

Hell, the average cyclist must be totally insecure by your standards. Who want’s to be grown up and mature anyway? Not me 🙂

Interesting topic. I used to be of the opinion that I wanted at some point a silly fast car , but as time has gone on, I’ve drifted away from that view a bit . . . or more like softened in that want.

I think that one of the factors has been my job (police) giving me the element of being able to drive faster (in certain circumstances) than what you normally would. My patrol area includes everything from urban to really rural, so that faster driving is done across a range of road types. In doing so, you get your fill of the speed element such that when you are in your own car, the need for speed doesn’t really exist so much – if at all I find.

I am definitely more mellow in my normal driving in general. I rarely rush, and don’t get phased by others impatience.

To me, the silly fast want has moved towards a want for the car to be engaging when you drive it progressively. I think I would find that something like an RS6 as mentioned above would be frustrating in that you’re rarely able to push it hard without having to then back-off fairly quickly.

I had an 04 mini cooper recently, which had great handling, but felt like i was ragging it when driving it. I now have a 730d BMW and its engine and power delivery are brilliant, but the handling is . . . well . . . soft.

I think now, the perfect car for me would be along the lines of a small / medium car with a decent grunt engine . . .3 series with 3 litre engine type thing. That way your getting good handling, with an engine that can be pushed hard at times, but isn’t too over the top you feel its wasted.

A 3ltr in a 3 series is too much. I’ve got a 2.0 one and its plenty quick enough.

I think now, the perfect car for me would be along the lines of a small / medium car with a decent grunt engine . . .3 series with 3 litre engine type thing. That way your getting good handling, with an engine that can be pushed hard at times, but isn’t too over the top you feel its wasted.

My wife was a 325i that seems spot on apart from not being able to hear the engine enough.

My desire to drive fast cars waned after having big motorbikes. Once you pin the throttle on a 1050 speed triple almost everything else in the world seems slow.

That’s why I like the mx5. It’s all about cruising with the tunes on and top down, or getting corners ‘just right’

RS6 avant (V10 lambo jobbie)

The only thing they share is the engine casing; Crank, heads & everything else are completely different.

yourguitarhero – Member
My desire to drive fast cars waned after having big motorbikes. Once you pin the throttle on a 1050 speed triple almost everything else in the world seems slow

Try my ZX14…….

Why race bikes?

Different. On a bike, it’s man to man – your own effort, sweat and determination. Plus a race is something everyone signs up to for the purpose of racing each other. If you win it’s because you trained and rode hard, you put the effort in.

Burning off people at traffic lights or roundabouts is.just shouting about the car you happen to have bought. You haven’t achieved anything beyond spending money and moving your right foot. Might as well go around town looking for someone with cheaper jeans than you and pointing it out.

Or how about like up at the lights on your carbon road bike next to some kid on an MTB and tearing away.. Show them who’s boss.

Note I am not arguing against fast or nice cars (on this thread!) nor am I arguing against going fast (on this thread). I am expressing surprise at the prevalence of the sentiment that enjoys beating some random on the road in an inferior car.

I thought i’d got a farily fast motor until i went for a spin in a mates RS6 avant (V10 lambo jobbie), 653bhp and the way it builds speed is unreal! Everything is relative but the want now from sitting in this thing is just like a fat lip from a automotive presenter

I used to think that about my bosses RS6. Then we had to do a 1000 mile mostly motorway round trip in it. After that I’d be happy to never go in it again. Noisy, uncomfortable but spectacular down the slip road after the frequent service station stops to fill it up….

I think there are two elements, having a great car you know is very capable, superbly engineered and good looking and then driving it to use the performance. I’ve always liked fast/sports cars and have owned a Cayman S for 8 years. The most usable performance is the acceleration and cornering ability obviously, top speed is just a number and going fast in a straight line is pretty boring anyway. In the same way you’d go out on your MTB to search for the best trails in such a car you go out for a drive to find some twisty roads or make special road trips to do so.

As an aside I used to find keeping to the speed limit harder in the A6 I had as its so quiet and smooth.

I have a Clio 172 cup, it’s a little short of power on track, 50bhp more would make it better but it’s a little too fast for the road, pushing it to it’s potential around corners on the road is suicidal.

I also have an old mini van running 80bhp and it’s great on the road, full throttle everywhere and you never get in trouble. You can really extract everything it’s got and for me that’s where the fun is.

Despite thinking 80bhp is just right for it, I find myself building a new turbo motor for it lol.

molgrips – Member

I am expressing surprise at the prevalence of the sentiment that enjoys beating some random on the road in an inferior car.

Not sure how surprised you can be, tbh, since you’re choosing to see it in places where it’s not. You chose to interpret my comment earlier in the thread this way, for instance. It’s not as prevelant as you want to think.