the-muffin-man
Full Member
I do wonder if McLaren are saving their budget for next years car. This years looks underdeveloped and they’ve only just got their new wind tunnel up and running. So makes sense to use the new tools on the 2024 car.

According to The Race podcast, they realised during the development phase of this years car that they’d cocked up & gone the wrong way. They developed that concept enough to bring a car to the launch and for the first few races, but then switched tact & started working on what they believe is a much better direction.
So, until that ‘upgrade’ is ready they are having to put up with a car that was basically a flawed design, with limited development done on it.

Will be interesting to see if there is a noticeable jump once the car is upgraded as intended.

johndoh
Free Member

Can somebody explain to me why on earth Mercedes have turned up with such an uncompetitive car which they clearly knew was uncompetitive and were already talking about changes before the Championship started (with the sidepods specifically)? After last season surely they should have gone back to the drawing board and taken the same approach most other teams have proven is the correct approach? Surely constructors should be geared up with having what they believe is the most competitive car for the start of the season, not a few races in?

I think they thought the problems/setup compromises caused by bouncing were ruining their performance and the concept was fundamentally still good, but actually there were other issues.

A bit like how Mclaren blamed the honda engine for all their problems, then it turned out the chassis was also a turd.

@Bez – My recollection is less charitable. To my eye he was using DRS to close from an unrealistically long way back and brake at a point where he couldn’t conventionally make the corner. He was only able to do so by braking way past the apex and blocking the corner. It no doubt takes a considerable amount of skill to do but he was coming from so far back that the car in front hadn’t covered the inside and at their turn in point he appears from nowhere still travelling 20-50mph faster. You can tell they’ve not expected it because they all have to back out having already initiated a turn in then gone “oh sh**!”. It’s not an overtake it’s an ambush.

It was only possible because of DRS and because he’s a colossal ****

Surely constructors should be geared up with having what they believe is the most competitive car for the start of the season, not a few races in?

They have hit the targets they aimed for, they just found out at testing that RedBull had moved a lot further ahead than they were expecting.

Bahrain is an outlier circuit, but RedBull were only pushing for the first 25% of the race to get a gap and then it was a cruise to the finish. We’re not likely to get a true reflection of performance until R8 in Spain when we’re back to “normal” European circuits.

Ferrari & Merc need to concerned by the pace of the Aston.

We saw yesterday it can be up there fighting for podiums.
And whilst Alonso’s podium was great, Stroll was only 16 seconds behind and is not fully fit, which shows the cars underlying performance.

To my eye he was using DRS to close from an unrealistically long way back and brake at a point where he couldn’t conventionally make the corner. It was only possible because of DRS and because he’s a colossal ****

To my mind that’s using the tools available to get the job done. You’re not going to overtake by staying on the racing line and you’re not going to overtake the best circuit drivers in the world—or indeed anyone—by hanging back and letting them turn in first. The fact that DRS amplified any speed differential is not his fault: that’s what it was designed to do. He set out his stall from day one: leave any gap and he’ll find a way into it. I can see why some might see it as a bit too much, but frankly I thought it was a breath of fresh air.

Chew

They have hit the targets they aimed for, they just found out at testing that RedBull had moved a lot further ahead than they were expecting.

Bahrain is an outlier circuit, but RedBull were only pushing for the first 25% of the race to get a gap and then it was a cruise to the finish. We’re not likely to get a true reflection of performance until R8 in Spain when we’re back to “normal” European circuits.

I wonder what their targets were?
Assuming this chart is correct, they were actually slower than last year in terms of mean race pace

2023 vs 2022 Bahrain GP Mean Race Pace from formula1

Ferrari also but theirs was largely due to high deg on the hard tyre.

Bez

To my mind that’s using the tools available to get the job done. You’re not going to overtake by staying on the racing line and you’re not going to overtake the best circuit drivers in the world—or indeed anyone—by hanging back and letting them turn in first. The fact that DRS amplified any speed differential is not his fault: that’s what it was designed to do. He set out his stall from day one: leave any gap and he’ll find a way into it. I can see why some might see it as a bit too much, but frankly I thought it was a breath of fresh air.

It’s smart racing in a way, it works and he (mostly) didn’t get penalised so why stop?

IMO It destroys the racing though. Lewis and Alonso had a great and very enjoyable battle to watch on Sunday.

I think if it had been Max involved, he’d have just braked too deep, pushed the other car wide and that’s that.

I wonder what their targets were?

Downforce/Drag etc..

Different track conditions so i’d take the graph with a pinch of salt as to absolute performance year-on-year, but its useful to show who has comparatively improved/gone backwards
(look at Haas)

When the Merc had worse rear deg and the Aston you have to wonder why.
Both cars share the same engine and rear suspension, so it comes back to aero.

Dan Fellows was heavily involved with the ’22 RedBull, so it seems like the Aston will be a RedBull aero with a Merc engine?

so it seems like the Aston will be a RedBull aero with a Merc engine?

But the Aston and Red Bull are different. There’s those massive ski-slope scallops on the side-pods of the Aston. Big difference in rear diffusers too and other detail differences, so it’s not a carbon-copy green Red Bull along the lines of the pink Merc they did a few years back.

Ferrari and Mercedes were both doing heavy tyre management. I’d wager Mercedes pace is better than has been shown so far, but that RB are even further ahead than has thus far been shown.

Is it me or do C4 have fuller highlights again…didn’t they only have about 15 mins of actual racing before?

(Mark Webber is still as thick as the back of an axe tho 😂)

(Mark Webber is still as thick as the back of an axe tho 😂)

Would that be the same Mark Webber who got Oscar Pistorius into this year’s McLaren rather than staying at Alpine? Haha 😂😂😂

Seems like a (pre-2023!) Alonso-level career move…

Seems like a (pre-2023!) Alonso-level career move…

When the deal was done there wasn’t a 2023 race seat for Piastri, so another year sat in the garage loomed. And I didn’t see a stellar Alpine performance this weekend either.

And I didn’t see a stellar Alpine performance this weekend either

There must be a prize for most penalties, surely?!

We don’t know that either car is any good. McLaren had two wounded birds and Alpine started from the back and had…issues.

Norris was saying before the race that they knew their performance was going to be bad, and they have a big upgrade coming for Baku.

Yeah – I read this a short while ago…

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/how-a-15mm-difference-triggered-mclarens-f1-2023-woes/10440908/

I missed this while trying to stay awake watching the race – but some crafty tactics from Alfa!… 🙂

Alfa Romeo’s fastest lap bid with Zhou was targeted at Alpine

I’ve gained a bit of respect for Lance reading this:
(click to zoom)

multi21

Free Member

I’ve gained a bit of respect for Lance reading this:

I always wonder about the long-term consequences of returning to sport so soon after an injury, I read an article a year or two ago which indicated that, in the short to medium term at least, the consequences are pretty minimal

Norris was saying before the race that they knew their performance was going to be bad, and they have a big upgrade coming for Baku.

That’s 5 races in tho, brutal!!

multi21
Free Member
….and they have a big upgrade coming for Baku.

And so does just about every other team!

multi21
Free Member
….and they have a big upgrade coming for Baku.

And so does just about every other team!

Doh, duplicate post due to gremlins…

Source:https://t.co/Sr93G42w6z

— Fastest Pitstop (@FastestPitStop) March 15, 2023

Uh oh, what’s Gene been up to??? 🤔🤔

Oooops – not a good look when you sacked-off your Russian backers. Perhaps Gene is keeping things sweet for when the war is over. 😬

Got to be verified of course.

I’m guessing that Haas will try to pull a plausible deniability defense. They were supplying equipment to their Russian agent, the Russian agent supplied it to sanctioned military manufacturers without Haas knowing about it or even being suspicious. It would be ironic if Haas ended up having to sell the F1 team over this and Andretti bought it at a fire-sale price. Unlikely, but not impossible.

It’ll be strange not seeing Angela (and her pony tail) by Lewis’s side. Shame Lewis is getting so much hate over this on Twatter…

Hamilton confirms split from trainer Cullen after seven years

the-muffin-man

It’ll be strange not seeing Angela (and her pony tail) by Lewis’s side. Shame Lewis is getting so much hate over this on Twatter…

I don’t do twitter. Why’s he getting hate over this?
You are right it will be very strange not seeing Angela at the races. I wonder if this will affect his performance/form.

I don’t do twitter. Why’s he getting hate over this?

The Lewis haters are basically saying he’s not had a good start to the year so has just dumped her in a strop. In a less polite way though.

Who are these clowns on the Radio 5 coverage!? Did they give them a beginners guide to F1 before going on air. 🙂

Both Ferraris to take new engines.

2nd race…

nickc
Full Member

Both Ferraris to take new engines.

2nd race…

is this a joke ? i can’t tell with ferrari any more

People keep commenting on how Mercedes have made no improvement, but their car qualified over 1.3seconds fast in Bahrain than last year and over the race distance they were over 5 mins faster. Yes RB were almost the same distance away as last year in qualifying, but in race pace it’s better even with the tyre degradation.

On a tangent – anyone else excited for WEC this season? They are sounding and looking fantastic…

Bring back Binotto. The new guy’s terrible.

Still, it will be great to see Ferrari, Williams, and McLaren battling it out on track just like 30 years ago.

Still, it will be great to see Ferrari, Williams, and McLaren battling it out on track just like 30 years ago.

Oooh, harsh…

There are some angry team bosses in the pitlane this season!…

https://the-race.com/formula-1/tost-doesnt-trust-alphatauri-engineers-car-claims-anymore/

People keep commenting on how Mercedes have made no improvement, but their car qualified over 1.3seconds fast in Bahrain than last year and over the race distance they were over 5 mins faster. Yes RB were almost the same distance away as last year in qualifying, but in race pace it’s better even with the tyre degradation

It’s all about relative pace though. I’m sure The Race will have an article covering it shortly (if they don’t already)

@the-muffin-man

On a tangent – anyone else excited for WEC this season? They are sounding and looking fantastic…

Yes! its an aquired taste WEC due to the length of the races but I far prefer it to F1. With the Hypercar class starting to take off the next few years should be very good once the new teams get a grip on things rather than expecting Toyota to win,

Andrew Benson on BBC is incredibly pessimistic about anyone’s chances of catching Red Bull this season (or next season…..or the one after that)