Being fair to bottas I didn’t see many people defending a drs pass into turn 1

Yes, but he had the quickest car! And for whatever reason it took a slightly pissed sounding Toto on the radio before he pulled his finger out and started overtaking. But he was ultimate unlucky and retired through no fault of his own.

But he lost 5 or 6 places off the start line!

What was the reason for Bottas’ retirement? Was this problem the reason he couldn’t move further up after his pit stop for the puncture?

But he lost 5 or 6 places off the start line!

To be fair part of that is the tyres- he was on mediums, surrounded by softs, therefore everyone was quicker than him at the start before slowing down later on so his overtakes were easier. The emphasis is on the word ‘part’ tho, as the other part is his driving- and when the front end of the grid is filled with exceptional drivers who can find a way to drive around these deficits you realise that Bottas is a really good driver, but not a great driver. Shame, but he’s had his chance to shine (and to be fair there’s been a couple drives where he has) but in all fairness he’s probably heading in the right direction in terms of team, and we can now start looking forward to seeing what George Russell can do

I get in his first stint he was trying to go easy on the tyres as he was 1 stopping. So his slow movement up the order is understandable.

But I think after the puncture he should have been in “beast mode” to regain as many points as he could.

I far as know he wasn’t moving up after the puncture for many laps and then retired. Wondering if he had an issue related to the retirement or if he just didn’t;t have the pace.

What was the reason for Bottas’ retirement? Was this problem the reason he couldn’t move further up after his pit stop for the puncture?

This is a great question. As the Sky Sports commentary pointed out- they could have used him to deny Verstappen the point for fastest lap. Maybe the floor was damaged?

Reason for retirement…

Car damage prevents Mercedes using Bottas to deny Verstappen bonus point

Bottas was weak early in the race. A bad start and then far too many laps going no where just following slower cars. Even when he has drs he wasn’t passing people which given he is in a far superior car to those he was racing is not good.

I suppose at that point you’d have a Hamilton or a Verstappen.

Not really: Hamilton and Verstappen both comfortably out-qualify and out-race both Bottas and Perez on the majority of occasions, and especially when the pressure’s on.

To be fair part of that is the tyres- he was on mediums, surrounded by softs, therefore everyone was quicker than him at the start

Hamilton was also on mediums and managed to beat the softs around him into turn 1…

I can forgive folks for being partisan

Yeah but not really the commentary team. It just gets so tiring… 🙄

Have you watched any sport in telly? Show an England shirt and a round ball and it’s all 1966. Put jiffy in the commentary box and you’d be forgiven for not realising there were two teams on the pitch. He drove for RB for a good while and is still associated with them, probably has friends there. They may be his team but he does give credit where it’s due.

Bez
Hamilton was also on mediums and managed to beat the softs around him into turn 1…

True but Hamilton was on the grippy side of the grid. In the replays of Bottas start, I noticed his dash was saying “TOO LOW!” not sure if that was the engine RPM or what though…

eta: 1:34 in this

It’ll be interesting to see how he handles the mid-field battles next season.

This is a great question. As the Sky Sports commentary pointed out- they could have used him to deny Verstappen the point for fastest lap.

Only if he got far enough forward to finish in the top 10 including the stop needed to throw on a set of softs…

He drove for RB for a good while and is still associated with them

AFAIK, still paid by them as some sort of Brand Ambassador boleaux. I understand people getting a bit carried away when the National team (of whatever sport) are up against their perceived nemesis but DC drove for a number of teams and you don’t hear him making excuses for e.g. McLaren do you?

His commentary is verging on a partisan advertorial at times and I don’t want to hear it. When he and Webber both jumped on Hammy after the Silverstone incident, that was me done. I just happened on DC doing it again yesterday by chance. If I was Hammy, I’d be very economical with the time I gave those two now.

I think Bottas is a great driver but not a racer, same with Stoner in MotoGp, an amazing technician but not a racer. Hamilton and Verstappen are both as is Alonso and a few others.

Only if he got far enough forward to finish in the top 10 including the stop needed to throw on a set of softs…

Nope, it would still have taken the point from Verstappen and RB, it just wouldn’t have then also added it to Bottas or Mercedes.

Not really: Hamilton and Verstappen both comfortably out-qualify and out-race both Bottas and Perez on the majority of occasions, and especially when the pressure’s on.

Yes, exactly. The best of Bottas and Perez would be a pretty good driver, but still short of Hamilton or Versappen (and Alonso, Schumacher, Senna, Prost, etc.) They just don’t have the relentlessness of the greats, just always wringing the absolute maximum out of the car on every lap. I find Verstappen’s personality easy to dislike, but his ability behind the wheel is astonishing. Same with Hamilton and Alonso, they just find some way to grab a car by the scruff of its neck and wring lap times out of it. Bottas and Perez never showed that. They’re goth very good drivers, just a step below the greats.

Lando trying not to laugh when he spots Daniel vibing to another anthem 😅 pic.twitter.com/tCNkhLDE9L

— ESPN F1 (@ESPNF1) November 22, 2021

Shit’s getting real.

Did you know that @MercedesAMGF1 and @redbullracing have stopped pulling the pneumatic lines in for each other, narrowing their pit box exit and approach respectively?

Credit to u/sammccarty for spotting this 🔍#F1 pic.twitter.com/kRLTecujsC

— r/Formula1 (@F1Subreddit) November 22, 2021

I did notice that during one of the Mercedes stops: RB had positioned some lucky mechanic as a human traffic cone on the corner of their pit box 🙂

Commentators do have their favourites. Murray Walker was very close to Damon Hill for example and James Hunt really didn’t like Patrese.
The Hunt/Patrese thing was really obvious in the commentary, Murray was a little more restrained but we all remember when Hill finally won the title, he was really pleased for him.
Still a bit different to making excuses for them all the time though.

ITV were also massively pro Hamilton for a while, I recall James Allen took a lot of flack it despite it being an editorial decision.

There seems to be a lot of open comment on red bulls general conduct at the moment, more so than in previous years when horner was whining about Renault or whatever. I expect Matteschitz will be keeping an eye on his brand and won’t want f1 negativity to affect his sales of caffeinated sugar, so it’ll be interesting to see what happens if (when!) there’s another controversy.

Nope, it would still have taken the point from Verstappen and RB, it just wouldn’t have then also added it to Bottas or Mercedes

We may be talking at cross-purposes, but what I meant was you have to finish in the top 10 to get the fastest lap point….if not, I assume it goes to the next fastest?

We may be talking at cross-purposes, but what I meant was you have to finish in the top 10 to get the fastest lap point….if not, I assume it goes to the next fastest?

No.
The fastest lap gets the point if they are in the top 10. If they are not in the top ten, no-one gets it. (see Mazapinn’s fastest lap in Belgium!)
But it’s better to get FL and stop your opponent having it is the point, even if you don’t get a point yourself.

Did not know that.. Every day’s a schoolday! Ta 😁

As F1 fans no doubt you lot love a good stat.

the STW 2020 thread topped out at 48 pages. With 2 races to go this thread is on 84. Can we double to the 2020 total?

You want me to flood this thread with spam?

😉

No need, every time Horner has a moan there’s 2 new pages of people moaning about him moaning

Hamilton was also on mediums and managed to beat the softs around him into turn 1…

You’re remaking the same point I had already made here, so not sure what you’re getting at but I’ll take that as a complement of sorts I guess!

If Lewis wins and gets fastest lap in SA, and Max is second, they both go into the final race on 369.5 points with Lewis on 8 wins and Max on 9, else Lewis could be a point down if someone other than Max gets fastest lap, or two points down in Max gets fastest lap.

So, if Lewis is two points down after SA but he wins AD they’ll both be on 9 wins and if Max only finishes third, they’ll both have same number of points and if neither get fastest lap….

What happens next??

(Assuming I’ve got my sums correct)

If Lewis is 2 points behind going into the last race and wins with max 2nd they get 25 & 18 respectively so +7 to LH. So he ends up +5. Even if MV gets fastest lap that’s only 1 more point.

Yeah, that’s straight forward, but I’m curious as to whether VB can do what he’s paid to do and take some points from MV, and MV only finishes third (in either race, I guess).

I’m assuming some boffin, somewhere has a spreadsheet of all possible outcomes…

You’re remaking the same point I had already made

Ok, now I re-read it, fair enough. It was a bit ambivalent, I read one half more than the other 🙂

What happens next??

I think Billy Monger made an astute comment. In Lewis’s head at least, it’s very simple: he wins the next three races and he’s world champion. One down…

Probably best just see what Saudi brings first and then figure out the permutations…

Did anyone else notice both Redbull and Mercedes have stopped pulling back their pneumatic lines for each other during the pit stops?

What’s the position in the final race if Max takes out LH in Saudi?

Can LH still win if it is him 1st and MV 2nd or does Max get the WDC?

I am sure that isn’t a strategy on their computers right now, at least not on the shared drive

bluearsedfly
Free Member
Did anyone else notice both Redbull and Mercedes have stopped pulling back their pneumatic lines for each other during the pit stops?

There’s an echo in here… Yes, about 6 posts up there ^ 🙃

Someone pointed that out somewhere up thread.

Next step is Red Bull are going to paint some black and white stripes across pitlane and employ a mechanic with a baby stroller to wander back and forth across pitlane when one of the Mercs tries to leave the pitstop 😁😁

Can LH still win if it is him 1st and MV 2nd or does Max get the WDC?

If they both DNF in Saudi then even if he gets fastest lap, Hamilton will need Verstappen to be third or lower in Abu Dhabi.

Hamilton really needs to win both remaining races. If he doesn’t, he’d need something pretty extraordinary and beyond his control to keep Max down.

Ah, late to the party as usual 🙂

I make it if Lewis wins the next race with fastest lap, he will be equal on points with Max going into the last race.

Max can nerf them both at turn one and win the WDC on number of wins.

*Edit* actually they’d both be on 8 wins I think going into the last race.