Just BoJo I think in the current cabinet.

To be honest, whenever I see the phrase Etonian, it makes me think of an arch-tory attitude (JRMesque) rather than place of education.

Not that that seems to be the present government. They are **** things up through incompetence rather than contempt for the little people.

Perhaps we can leave the definition to some people who should probably know meanings and definitions along with common uses

The chancellor has warned that government finances remain vulnerable in the event of another financial shock and the Treasury’s task must remain to bring down the deficit over the next parliament.

Carl Emmerson, deputy director of the IFS, said: “An ‘end to austerity’ – as defined by no further net tax rises, benefit cuts or cuts to spending on public services – would require a very sharp change of direction.

“It would imply a £17bn boost to planned spending on public services alongside a £5bn net tax cut and an £11bn increase in planned benefit spending – ie a giveaway of £33bn a year. [That] would, on current forecasts, leave us with a deficit at its current level – 2.4% of GDP – in 2021-22.”

Emmerson said relaxing the spending squeeze was “an option in a way that it was not an option back in 2010”. But he warned that it would leave the chancellor with “less room for manoeuvre” if growth stalled as a result of Brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/12/heres-how-end-austerity-keep-deficit-low-ifs
But lets not get caught out arguing over a definition when the real world consequences are still apparent.
The government is not receiving enough cash to pay for everything it needs to so services are being cut. Despite ring fencing (fancy political term that means absolutely nothing) public sector wages are being cut in real terms. So more people are living on less money as costs rise. Less earnings, less spending = less tax, lower growth and demand etc.

Now fixing this will be a tricky game as all the indicators say Brexit will cost money (remember that is the stuff we don’t have a lot of) cuts to the things the EU spends on like farming and development will either need to be matched or that money is gone from the economy.

Maybe Hammond should get the same dictionary as THM. Would be easier.

Don’t worry Shakleton, I was teasing. From “reading” previous posts I knew not to expect precision .

The reason for asking the question was not just a mild tease, but to note how false the current narrative that shapes political debate is, be it it Etonions (how many people used to argue that Osbourne was an OE?!?), austerity, inequality etc. Indeed the party with the greatest current momentum is riding a wave of falsehood – anti-austerity and inequality – any whilst it is deceitful, it is brilliant politics because people are fooled by it, they are not interested in the truth (see above) and the winners are the side that wins the strategic communications (lying) war not the bearers of truth. Brexshit was just one good example of this. Perhaps the best alongside Scottish Indy supporters and Trump.

The reasons for “seeking” precision on austerity is a simple one. The current narrative and sloppy terminology merely ensures that people continue to misunderstand what is going on. Of course it is true that there have been cuts. What has happened is the gap between what our government spends and what it receives has gone down. But it remains high, indeed higher than in most other developed economies which is precisely why – as Krugman agrees with me – the UK recovered earlier and stronger. Of curse it was also helped as in Europe much later by central banks stealing off savers but that is another story.

The second reason that it is important is that the Cameron was 100% wrong when he said that you can’t solve a debt crisis with more debt. When the private sector is deleveraging it is crucial that governments do the opposite. Contrary to the false but popular narrative, that is what happened in the UK. Of course Cameron was not alone in getting this wrong – most of Europe did too. Hence they imposed EXACTLY the wrong policy for Greece at EXACTLY the wrong time in order to avoid ciriticism of their structure (€) that was responsible for the crisis in the first place.

Truth is the first victim of crises. Failing to understanding what is going on means that we are doomed to repeat mistakes.

and Borris has just hit self destruct/leadership bid

In his interview with the Sun, he called for four conditions for Brexit, which were then described by the paper as his “four red lines”:

Transition period must be a maximum of two years

UK must refuse to accept new EU rules during that period

No payments for access to the single market after the end of the transition period

UK must not agree to shadow EU rules to gain access to the single market
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41441444
How does he think the UK will access the single market?
The market for out of EU spec goods isn’t that big in the EU, it’s a fine grandstanding for the Kippers and Loons at the Mail/Express which seems to play to the EU going to sabotage best go for the hard brexit button.

Johnson knows what he’s doing, staking his claim as the champion of Brexit, so he can say if they’d done it his way, it wouldn’t have been the painful compromise we will inevitably have to face.

His ego knows now bounds!

Tho channel 4 have a documentary about his gaffes as foreign sec this weekend 🙂

I don’t know why May doesn’t sack Boris, there aren’t that many swivel eyed loons who support him. I don’t know why Boris covets being PM so much, poisoned chalice for years to ome.

His ego is as monstrous as his public persona.

I don’t know why Boris covets being PM so much, poisoned chalice for years to ome.

er you do

His ego is as monstrous as his public persona.

I think he has a decent level of support and it’s exactly the SEL’s that May needs to keep onside at this point. The are the ones who defect to UKIP, the middle basically have the Lib Dems as a deserting ground.

er you do

?????????

his ego is the answer, it’s something they can’t take from you

His ego is as monstrous as his public persona.

“Johnson’s impromptu recital was so embarrassing that the UK ambassador to Myanmar, Andrew Patrick, was forced to stop him. “

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/30/boris-johnson-caught-on-camera-reciting-kipling-in-myanmar-temple

Is he trying to get himself sacked so he can’t have his feet held to the fire over this whole disaster he has brought about?

nah he gets fired/resigns so that he can step up with his my plan for the win only serious alternative to May & Electoral defeat

Mays dilemma is whether to have him in the tent pissing out or outside pissing in.whatever boris is doing it is well calculated and designed to serve nothing other than Boris- i think he wants out so he can say it was not down to him and he tried personally.

He also does have an inordinate ability to put his foot in his mouth as well so an ambassadorial role is the most stupid choice for him as he will show time and time again.

Why are they news?

Transition period must be a maximum of two years – ok, unrealistic but that’s e current deal. So no news

UK must refuse to accept new EU rules during that period – largely irrelevant

No payments for access to the single market after the end of the transition period – NSS (although woukd be better to PV the future pension liabilies and then delay the actual payment over time)

UK must not agree to shadow EU rules to gain access to the single market – irrelevant, if you dont meet standards you can’t acces the markets.

So largely non points from a vacuous politician

teamhurtmore – Member
Why are they news?

Bless….
Because the FS is mounting a challenge to the PM, he needs to do what he did during the campaign and whip up fear

But Boris last night said anything longer than 24 months — effectively to March 30, 2021 — would be a mistake that would leave Brexit voters feeling betrayed.

Talking to The Sun in his vast room in the Foreign Office, overlooking St James’s Park, the 53-year-old Tory big beast said: “I got that from my own talking to people. Very strongly.

“What that teaches me is that really is it. Rien ne va plus. Finito la musica. Then we come out. There can be no monkeying around.
Language and the rest, also take a look at the source, Murdoch making sure we all know he has lost faith in May and putting stock into Boris.
That is why it is news

Nothing new

Nothing in the points of substance

Hardly news just sun click bait

Look at your extract

But Boris last night said anything longer than 24 months — effectively to March 30, 2021 — would be a mistake that would leave Brexit voters feeling betrayed.

He will be claiming the earth is round next

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/30/boris-johnson-caught-on-camera-reciting-kipling-in-myanmar-temple

Boris really knows how this diplomacy thing works!

So nothing at all about the timing of when he chose to speak, the way he chooses to position himself?
Clue…
The news isn’t just what he said, the why, how and when are more important. It is the start of a serious amount of tory infighting at the conference. The fact it’s the party of government makes that news.

We know all that – what’s new?

Just gives Bojo the attention he doesn’t deserve

The Tories always self destruct on Europe

It’s as if the Sun says last week that J McD will show he doesn’t understand the things he’s responsible for (e.g. PFI this time) and Corbyn will lie about austerity and inequality.

All BS but all part of both sides highly successful narratives and manipulation of the truth.

Poor old Boris apparently he is struggling to get by on his £146k salary….

Austerity is not just for poor people it would seem

Guess the quotes:

Is it ever a mistake to give people the opportunity to vote? I don’t think so.

and

There must be […] no second referendum.

So, who said what?

Pigface – Member

I don’t know why May doesn’t sack Boris, there aren’t that many swivel eyed loons who support him.

Every last swivel eyed loon counts though- that’s why she had to buy extra ones from chain reaction.

Trump opposes EU-UK WTO deal in blow to May’s Brexit plans
https://www.ft.com/content/92bb5636-a95b-11e7-ab55-27219df83c97?

The US joined other major agricultural exporters including Argentina, Brazil and New Zealand in signing a letter sent last week to the EU and UK’s WTO ambassadors objecting to the plan to split the quotas that cover everything from New Zealand butter and lamb to US poultry and wheat. 

I thought that this was going to be the ‘easiest trade deal in history’ ?

That isn’t even the trade deal. That’s the “oh we can just jump into WTO rules, it’s straightforward and the rest of the world does fine with it” deal.

You know, it’s enough to make you wonder if anyone has thought this through.

All the civil servants thought it through a couple of years ago. But there aren’t 17 million of them.

Basic problem is that we’ve developed a political class who are so divorced from reality that they think they can make things happen just by talking about them. Like the (in)famous (I think it’s disputed) quote “when we act, we create our own reality”. That works for fairly straightforward and limited systems like tinkering with how benefits are paid or schools are managed, especially if you don’t care about the fallout. But it can’t overturn physical reality, and the physical reality is that we have no way of replicating the functions of the EU in the time scale required, nor is there a physical solution to the irish border problem on any time scale. Simply saying it will be ok doesn’t make it so. And these issues are far too big to be just allowed to fail completely. But the politicians in their Westminster bubble, all full of leadership plots and soundbites, haven’t realised that yet (ok I’m sure plenty have by now, but are still too scared to say it in public). And most of the UK population hasn’t thought past next week’s Coronation street, whichever side of the vote they were on.

Another thing they seemed to have collectively failed to grasp is the concept of ‘negotiation’

It amounts to more than issuing a list of your demands, then everyone else agreeing to your wish-list. You’d never know it though, watching these clowns.

According to them, failing to immediately grant everything, immediately and without question, classes as being obstructive.

The arrogance is breathtaking

They need lessons.

[video]https://youtu.be/1xpzyk8Uo3E[/video]

slowoldman
You know, it’s enough to make you wonder if anyone has thought this through.

Of course no one thought it through. Neither side ever intended it to happen.
Hence BoJo, hence Farage saying 52:48 for remain meant he would be staying in the gravy train for a good while longer.

in your opinion, when does the remit of the EU referendum run out?

Trump opposes EU-UK WTO deal in blow to May’s Brexit plans

A link for those without FT access for the WTO stuff:
http://www.politico.eu/article/us-rounds-on-britain-over-food-quotas-as-post-brexit-trade-woes-deepen/amp/

Simply saying it will be ok doesn’t make it so.

Amen. And asking for a “real plan”, rather than hand waving, isn’t undemocratic/treachery/talkingdown/moaning.

in your opinion, when does the remit of the EU referendum run out?

That was the question that should have been asked of a more influential minister (or of Corbyn).

Rhetorical question. Brexit is happening.

Giving two conference calls on dealing with implications today !!!

The details are actually very interesting – if a bit dry and legal – but the idea of no plan simply doesn’t hold up, at least not at the industry level. We can cope, just need to get on with it 😉

Don’t see much sign of it happening myself.

There’s the difference!!

Been a v busy Brexshit week for me on top of other issues – have to be v careful not to say or write Brexshit in a professional capacity!!!!

You’re not making it happen either – just getting excited about it. There’s a difference.

On the contrary we are getting on with being ready for life after Brexshit. Much better than doing nothing. And it’s interesting too!

Not excited but prepared

We too we are preparing to lose at least 10% of our turnover.
Yes, very interesting.
Honestly we can’t wait to let the lion roar and deal with the needless shit storm coming our way.

Also preparing.

A lot of preparing is getting people to understand that in the standards world we will have lost a lot of influence. The EU will set standards and we will comply, not because we do or don’t want to, but because that is commercial reality.

Yep meeting next week about ways around potential funding loss for post H2020 research grants.

Great coz budgets aren’t tight enough already, and I really can’t be bothered wasting my time in a v dull meeting, brexshitters that one’s on you!