the correct one

“correct” according to … you ??

There is only one correct opinion round here.

Correct for understanding what went on – see krugmann above – and what is going on now

But feel free to misuse – most do.

Let’s get Dismal Davis to find out who is right.
Come back in 2020.

But feel free to misuse – most do.

Yawn.

I’m with THM on this one, DrJ- the term ‘austerity’ has been co-opted, certainly since 2013 in the UK, to suit the agenda of a kind of politics which wants a reduction or elimination of the state.

Its more than a question of semantics; but of course if you control the language, you control the discussion and agenda.

Its far too late now, unfortunately, to get people to call it what it is, and anyway, the press and other media would just continue to use the term. So ultimately this may seem pointless.

But this is just why its important for us to call it out here. Keep calling it ‘austerity’ and it perpetuates the idea that its necessary.

Anyway-

Never let facts get in the way of a good story, Cody

I’m with THM on this one

Your choice. I’m with the dictionary.

But this is just why its important for us to call it out here. Keep calling it ‘austerity’ and it perpetuates the idea that its necessary.

That’s not what thm is doing – he’s saying “the overall spending hasn’t reduced hence there is no austerity”, whereas the truth is that though overall spending has not been reduced there have nevertheless been cuts to vulnerable people. His implication is that since there is no austerity _sensu_bean-counters_ there is no hardship _sensu_real-people_, which is false.

If in doubt ask an (the)economist

https://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2015/05/fiscal-policy

That’s not what thm is doing – he’s saying “the overall spending hasn’t reduced hence there is no austerity”, whereas the truth is that though overall spending has not been reduced there have nevertheless been cuts to vulnerable people. His implication is that since there is no austerity _sensu_bean-counters_ there is no hardship _sensu_real-people_, which is false.

agreed

No I am not Dr – you are simply not bothering to read in you haste to post

Spending is one half of the deficit as I have made very clear.

Still I am using a proper dictionary not a made up one

Ooh,my early flounce radar just went off the scale.

THM cite.

If it helps you, Chambers (2014) defines austerity as”a lower standard of living associated with the curtailment of government spending”It certainly feels like that to a lot of us.

Those folks at the Cambridge University Press will be disappointed, but still – keep on with your “special” dictionary. As you say, it makes no difference to anything in the real world.

Have a look at real austerity – I have given you a good example which is linked to this thread (Europe)

If it offends our previous sensibilities that we are being left out if real austerity, then we can keep up abusing language. We don’t want to be left out after all!

SO Chambers is wrong? It’s not “real” austerity ? Are you the sole owner of the true definition ?

Or would you care to cite the dictionary you are using ?

I’m getting really confused.

Is it basically that while the government are no longer pursuing a program of austerity (in the strict economic definition) more people are experiencing actual austerity (in the common usage sense) than before due to knock on effects of the previous economic austerity lowering overall government spending coupled with changes in the direction of government spending?

Apparently only economists know what austerity is.

Most people are suffering because of a lack of wage growth

Wage growth is determined by productivity levels which are shite in the U.K. over a long period

Then inflation – made worse by Brexshit – hits us harder on top – hence crap real wage growth

None of this is related to the fact that we dont have austerity in the U.K.

But let’s not worry about what is really happening let’s blame it on either Johnny Foreigner or Austerity – both are equally invalid and hence very popular

My wife and I are both nurses,what helpful advice do you have for us on how to increase our productivity in order to earn more?

Right, I’ve read the article, I think I now understand what is meant by “economic austerity” and how it is very different from actual deprivation austerity that people are experiencing.

Quite why many people on here insist on being obtuse and deliberately unhelpful I really don’t know.

THM – I sincerely hope that you are not involved in teaching others…..
EDIT – actually, your last post was informative.

EDIT2 – just to avoid arguments the definition of obtuse above is neither the one meaning blunt. nor an angle between 90 and 180 degree.

Lol

Try getting you head around a fiscal surplus and what that means for Greece

Then we can have proper discussion about austerity rather than rants

Have you found the dictionary yet?

So disabled people who had their benefits cut are suffering because they are not productive ?
Some of them can’t even work in the first place.

I reckon productivity (in IT at least) is harmed by outsourcing, which is a response to the squeeze for efficiency.

So disabled people who had their benefits cut are suffering because they are not productive ?

Yes, they really need to try harder – those work shy disabled people.

THM – I sincerely hope that you are not involved in teaching others…..
EDIT – actually, your last post was informative.

Even worse – Imagine if I was involved in something that required reading, understanding and learning 😉

We do not need to imagine as we cannot compete with you on that front.

Then we can have proper discussion about austerity rather than rants

Oh the irony the reality remain that by the definition I provided [ from the FT] we are in austerity
NO matter what is happening in greece it has no bearing on whether we are or we are not having an austerity. It still irrelevant and whether true or false that greece is in austerity it tells you nothing at all about here

You must know this is irrelevant to what is happening here so I dont know why you keep saying it
IT HAS NO BEARING ON AUSTERITY HERE WHAT HAPPENS THERE – just to get the full rant in 😉 – does it lead to you accepting indisputable facts of logic?

Even worse – Imagine if I was involved in something that required reading, understanding and learning

I have no doubt that you can do that. It is transferring that knowledge to others without boiling their piss where things seem to break down. 😉

Well if people have the lack of shame to post things on a public forum like

its not true to say there is no common fiscal policy.

Then it’s no surprise that the boiling point of their piss is so low – possibly below 0C?

Odd that having to click links, read what experts say, and buy the odd book is such a combustible mix

But bravo on “actual deprivation austerity ” – I did have to look that one up. Good old Chambers….every day is a learning day

Shackleton – Member
I’m getting really confused.

Is it basically that while the government are no longer pursuing a program of austerity (in the strict economic definition) more people are experiencing actual austerity (in the common usage sense) than before due to knock on effects of the previous economic austerity lowering overall government spending coupled with changes in the direction of government spending?

Exactly that. Apologies for the pedantry, it seems almost irrelevant and ‘obtuse’ for me to be doing this, but when people buy into the myth that this ‘austerity’ is some kind of necessary deficit reduction measure caused by an overgrowth in the public sector, they’ll then support (tacitly or otherwise) a reduction in the state. Hence why I think its important to call it out for what it really is; a small-state land-grab.

when people buy into the myth that this ‘austerity’ is some kind of necessary deficit reduction measure caused by an overgrowth in the public sector, they’ll then support (tacitly or otherwise) a reduction in the state.

True, but conversely (or in addition) other people say that as there is no (economic) austerity there can be nobody suffering from (real world) austerity.

Given that gov spending as % of GDP is only just getting back to pre crisis levels, these nasty Tories are not very good at this small state land grab idea are they?

Did anyone say that on here Dr or was that just made up ?

DrJ – Member
when people buy into the myth that this ‘austerity’ is some kind of necessary deficit reduction measure caused by an overgrowth in the public sector, they’ll then support (tacitly or otherwise) a reduction in the state.
True, but conversely (or in addition) other people say that as there is no (economic) austerity there can be nobody suffering from (real world) austerity.

True. I’m probably not making my point very well, and coming across as arsey, so apols for beating this drum- but the general, joe-public accepted definition of ‘austerity’ as a fiscal measure hasn’t been with us since ’13, and more people need to know this. From this, they need to learn that what we’ve got now is wholly unnecessary and becoming dangerously close to irreversible.

Control the terms and you control the discourse. I take your point about the dictionary definitions of the word ‘austerity’, but would observe that it now means- something more technical- if you were to ask the man in the street.

That was it. I’m broadly in agreement with you on other matters….

Perfect excuse for the great Inigo Montoya

[video]https://youtu.be/G2y8Sx4B2Sk[/video]

Language is dynamic, that narrow definition used by a handful of economists has long been supplanted by the modern usage,

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Austerity

ie the decimation* of local services by a bunch of Eton toffs

* In the same way that decimation no longer means randomly selecting 10% of your army for execution as a form of collective punishment for desertion

How many members of the current cabinet went to Eton? All of them? More than 10? More than 5? Less than 2?

When was the last OE chancellor of the exchequer ?

When was the last OE chancellor of the exchequer ?

Heathcote-Amory under MacMillan

EDIT: the most common schools since then have both been Scottish on 2 each: Fettes and Loretto. The latter having two relatively recent Chancellors: Lamont and Darling.