EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    The Sunday Times reporter who got the leaked copy several weeks back has been doing a compare.
    Apparently the difference is
    drumroll.
    The title and the redacted paragraph.

    The missing paragraph is:

    “15. Facing EU tariffs makes petrol exports to the EU uncompetitive. Industry had plans to mitigate the impact on refinery margins and profitability but UK Government policy to set petrol import tariffs at 0% inadvertently undermines these plans.
    This leads to significant financial losses and announcement of two refinery closures (and transition to import terminals) and direct job losses (about 2000).
    Resulting strike action at refineries would lead to disruptions to fuel availability for 1-2 weeks in the regions directly supplied by the refineries.” (3/3)

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    Oh and its also worth remembering when the Sunday Times reported it initially you had a bunch of tories, including Gove claiming it was an outdated document. Looked a bit stupid when it was shown it was a couple of weeks old but now he looks even more of a lying arsehole since it wasnt even updated inbetween.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Full text version. You’re welcome.

    https://pastebin.com/gwevsbtx

    cchris2lou
    Member

    Gov is refusing to show messages of its advisers despite MPs voting for it .

    is that ven legal ?

    Of course, they haven’t just rehashed the old one and pretended it’s the new one to avoid releasing the really bad  new version where there is no more room in hell due to all the places now  reserved for Brexiteers and, as a consequence, the dead  will walk the earth.

    mrmo
    Member

    Further thoughts, this isn’t yellow hammer, it might be a briefing paper, or the preface. Where are the tables, the expanded commentary etc.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    Indeed. So much happening behind closed doors at the moment. So much being lied about (again).

    Premier Icon Poopscoop
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    perchypanther

    there is no more room in hell due to all the places now reserved for Brexiteers and, as a consequence, the dead will walk the earth.

    That made me lol.😁

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    Yeah a 6 page report? Looks like something knokced up in a blind panic.

    Premier Icon Sandwich
    Subscriber

    Gov is refusing to show messages of its advisers despite MPs voting for it .

    Next step is a court order and failure disclose become a criminal contempt. I can recommend following David Allen Green and the Secret Barrister on Twitter. Useful for seeing how the twists and turns will play out.

    Premier Icon jimdubleyou
    Subscriber

    Not sure if this has bindun (I’m not going to check) but it’s an interesting theory on the motivations of some of the richer brexiteers…

    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/a-reminder-of-all-the-brexiteers-who-appeared-in-the-paradise-papers-as-eu-tax-avoidance-legislation-looms/03/09/

    So Boris has made concessions to (mostly Chinese) international students giving them two years to work after graduating and HKEX just made a low ball bid for the LSE as well.

    The vultures are circling my friends.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Well this is fun.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1171899077807747076?

    Seems that overview was from a year ago and the document was 37 pages long back in February.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1091613737923067905

    Premier Icon Del
    Subscriber

    Lol. Good digging cougar!

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    You know,

    We’ve been played again. This document has been designed to look like something “leaked,” and the redacted bit is a diversion to make people (like me) feel superficially clever in finding the missing bits.

    But this isn’t the full document, is it. It’s another lie, with the hope that we’ll lap it up and stop asking questions.

    Premier Icon winston
    Subscriber

    No wonder he wanted an extra 20,000 police

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    … or, wait, is that the DfT response document?

    vazaha
    Member

    Apropos the person asking about why the Unions are a bit Brexity, it is why Corbyn has been at least until now similarly Brexity – they are moved by the Bennite argument –

    – which tbf has much merit.

    One could argue that it is a side argument to an already lost one, but it does at least have some meat on its bones.

    I think what we all must focus on now is the ‘threat’ from the brexit party ltd – because one thing that has been noticeable from general discourse since the European Elections is the absence of Nigel’s Garage.

    Not hitherto known for shrinking before the lights, why has he been so reticent in recent weeks? Could it be because he is struggling to put a manifesto together that could actually unite his own company, let alone the electorate?

    Because the last time i gave even the most cursory thought to how to make friends and influence people, suggesting that the NHS was pretty much dead and we’d all have to accept an insurance based healthcare system was not massively high on the list of how to achieve any sort of popularity – like, whatsoever – in the still-only-just-barely-hanging-by-a-thread-United Kingdom.

    To be scared of Farage is a real mistake, especially to anyone who had the misfortune to watch Ann Widdecombe’s post-election interview on the night of their single-issue election victory.

    But they will just lie! i hear you cry… yes they will, but they will fail to lie consistently as the loose cannons misfire spectacularly day after day in the heat of the hustings. The brexit party ltd will be as much dust as Ukip is this time next year – give them enough rope and they will surely hang themselves.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    raybanwomble

    Member

    So Boris has made concessions to (mostly Chinese) international students giving them two years to work after graduating and HKEX just made a low ball bid for the LSE as well.

    There doesn’t have to be any conspiracy on the post-graduation working, it was a moronic policy when it was launched, it’s been fought over ever since, literally nobody believes it’s a good idea… Just a daft bit of pretty ineffectual posturing that did a lot of harm to the country.

    Re the other, though, the “great” thing about this is that they’ll portray it as “investment in the UK”

    Oh I totally agree Northwind, but you can bet the Tories didn’t have a change of heart because it’s a good idea – my cynical side says they’ve done it to grease the cogs of some shit free trade deal with a country like India.

    I worked for an Indian generics company who’s modus operandi in the UK was to pay for masters courses at crappy unis in the uk for young adults from one state and even city in India and then use them as indentured workers to be treated like slaves.

    GMP/GDP regulations flouted at every corner, staff who spoke up threatened with being sent home along with their families, unpaid overtime to the point of dropping people’s wages below the minimum wage or effectively halfing it, eventually they killed a patient.

    #takingbackcontrol

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    raybanwomble

    Member

    my cynical side says they’ve done it to grease the cogs of some shit free trade deal with a country like India.

    If they have, it’s a feeble effort- India made it clear exactly what they wanted and it was a relaxation on/massive increase in visas, this wouldn’t even scratch the surface.

    Premier Icon Pook
    Subscriber

    listening to Today, yesterday, it was interesting to see the students story come directly after the Calais Dover record crossing immigration story. Almost as if those who’d supplied the stories were saying “IT’S ALL ABOUT IMMIGRATION, BUT WE’RE NOT RACIST, LOOK”

    On the day the proroguing was announced there was a big Calais Dover immigration story too.

    Premier Icon rone
    Subscriber

    Tory surge in polls! 😉

    ‘Kin Borisgate.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    Not hitherto known for shrinking before the lights, why has he been so reticent in recent weeks?

    He seems to have been busy doing a tour of the country trying to get support underway. Its just that its not getting much press.
    In addition they have been running their constant “please like us back” advertising campaign to get the brexiteers talking.

    Edukator
    Member

    So the London stock exchange is being taken over by the Chinese and the European parliament is taking control of Brexit

    It seems everyone except the UK parliament is taking control of Britain and it’s future.

    hels
    Member

    How does that killfile thing work again ?

    willard
    Member

    Private Eye this week has a quote in from an Army Officer commenting on the report that Reserves will be called up to fill in missing slots in the Civil service if the crash out happens. They seemed to be unimpressed with the plan.

    Premier Icon white101
    Subscriber

    Tuesday in the supreme court will be interesting.

    Premier Icon fadda
    Subscriber

    Jesus I hope the latest Scottish Court ruling is upheld…

    olddog
    Member

    So it isn’t the North that’s all Brexity…

    grumpygit
    Member

    Living in Kent I can confirm it is predominantly Tory/kippers, and rascist.

    I will not provide a Venn diagram.

    olddog
    Member

    To be fair it’s the Midlands that is most Brexity and the only bit that is net leave in that survey. I grew up in the East Midlands and my family still live there – and it is definitely a strongly brexit vibe I get when I go down there

    stevextc
    Member

    But they will just lie! i hear you cry… yes they will, but they will fail to lie consistently as the loose cannons misfire spectacularly day after day in the heat of the hustings. The brexit party ltd will be as much dust as Ukip is this time next year – give them enough rope and they will surely hang themselves.

    You’d think that matters but it doesn’t appear to.
    Instead believers in the religion simply deny, try and say “it wasn’t REALLY a lie” and “they were mis-quoted” or “out of context” .. or simply say’s “Remain lied so it’s OK”

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    That poll result image is interesting. YouGov lump Wales and the Midlands together which is pretty dim IMO. Culturally the Midlands, SE Wales and the rest of Wales are pretty different.

    kerley
    Member

    Living in Kent I can confirm it is predominantly Tory/kippers, and rascist.

    And living in the New Forest I can confirm the same.

    scotroutes
    Member

    You all look like rabid Brexiteers from where I am 😊

    TheBrick
    Member

    I will not provide a Venn diagram.

    Easiest venn diagram ever!

    stevextc
    Member

    That poll result image is interesting. YouGov lump Wales and the Midlands together which is pretty dim IMO. Culturally the Midlands, SE Wales and the rest of Wales are pretty different.

    Interesting but ….
    I’m not sure that matters or is relevant to outcome though …
    The whole “success” of Leave has always been individual profiling so that messages to the hardline Tory can be tailored differently to the traditional labour voter but down into fine detail.

    The result as played by May is “Brexit means Brexit” or more accurately Brexit means pretty much nothing (or everything). Nearly everyone I know voted Brexit absolutely did so based on a “fantastic deal with the EU” … so even if you were to say at the time of the referendum the choices were really “Brexit at any and all costs”, Brexit if we can get a good deal and remain but that middle one was in reality thousands of choices.

    Lets say (for example) some people in Kent voted for immigratation (being as where they are) then a hard border was (according to Boris) the only way to “control”… whereas the minority leave in NI were fed completely different messages.

    Don’t even think this is what people post or like, its WAY WAY deeper than that. All the FB ads or “Apps/Quiz” like “test your IQ, identify the 70’s cars”, “which countries have you visited” are profiling.

    It’s more subtle* but for example someone has lower IQ, identifies British and american 70’s cars but not European, picks white people for fantasy football, has only travelled to Spain… will be receiving different “ads” and targetted differently AND they can’t share the actual content other than screenshots.

    *by subtle i mean it breaks down way further, which Q’s did you get right or wrong on “test your IQ”, did limited travel coincide with football… what you question vs just accept…

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    And the really insidious thing with all that is, it’s not just the profiling but the outcome / results which are invisible. Because it’s directly targeted, you can tell people anything you want and the people who would be likely to object to it are never even aware it existed. Some of the pre-referendum targeted advertising on Facebook was absolutely horrendous.

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