EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • P-Jay
    Member

    Of course, as Parliament has control of the house and a Majority at the moment, they could table for a 2nd ref now, but they haven’t. Well, once they’re back in session anyway, whenever that might be.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    but because they didn’t go remain hard enough.

    agreed, Labour lost 3 voters to lib dems for every 1 they lost to bxp ltd in euros

    Johnson has been able to reclaim votes from farage with his clear brexit stance

    Corbyn been unable to win them back from lib dems (tho in a GEn I think many remainers will vote tactically & go labour if necessary, but a lot of trust has been blown)

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    It’s possible that a 2nd ref motion will be tabled late October, and possible it will pass. The public might not be receptive to the idea but Parliament are acutely aware of how badly this is **** things up and that we are essentially in stalemate.

    PrinceJohn
    Member

    P-Jay – why don’t you think socialism is fair?

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    but because they didn’t go remain hard enough.

    Had they done that the labour party would have split and instead of a united opposition confronting a minority govt, we’d have the opposite and Boris or May would have had a free run. Without the labour leadership’s careful party management in order to keep the two sides of labour from killing each other, we’d already be out. The fact that remain is still a possibility is a direct result of labour’s policy and the refusal of the leadership to go all out for remain.

    P-Jay – why don’t you think socialism is fair?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    we’d already be out

    How?

    I trust we’re all joining in with Boris on Facebook at 5 pm today for the “People’s PMQ’s”

    I’m sure it won’t be, in any way, loaded with preselected punters asking preapproved questions……

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    How?

    Because if labour had split, there’s a high chance that May’s deal would have got through. The only reason it didn’t was because labour MPs were whipped to oppose it and were pretty much united in opposition to it.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    I’m sure it won’t be, in any way, loaded with preselected punters asking preapproved questions

    Last time didnt even allow the preselected punters bit. He just read their questions (terms and conditions apply. Punter may or may not actually exist) out and then answered them.
    Too dangerous to actually risk speaking with them directly otherwise could end up with Nicholas Beluga switched from a nice comment about free schools or something to asking about likelihood of Scottish independence post brexit.

    Because if labour had split, there’s a high chance that May’s deal would have got through. The only reason it didn’t was because labour MPs were whipped to oppose it and were pretty much united in opposition to it

    You can’t say with any certainty that the backbenchers would have flouted a three line whip to the extent of allowing Mays bill to pass. And if they had, they would just be in the same position as they are now – which makes labour strategy pointless. What is certain, is that labours dithering since has hurt them and that continuing to listen to labour leave backbenchers is hurting them more than it is helping them.

    Labours position now is a consequence of their short sighted decision to whip for A50 and then whip against May, voters currently want strong sound bites and messages Not badly thought out, fickle grand strategy and they saw through Corbyns strategy for the cynical self interested posturing that it was.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    I don’t know this company, but I just spotted this on Facebook.

    https://www.facebook.com/Isle-of-Skye-Chocolate-106275706059673

    THE LAST POST

    We regret to inform you that Isle of Skye Chocolate has now closed permanently.

    For the past 3 years, ever since the UK voted to leave the EU, we have been “on hold” as far as investment in the business is concerned, due to the UK’s uncertain economic future. Our raw material prices have increased by around 30% in that time, mainly due to the fall in the value of the pound against the euro. Being outside the EU single market and common customs tariffs will lead to tariffs of between 10% and 20% being imposed on chocolate from the EU (our chocolate comes from Belgium).

    No matter what happens in the future regarding brexit, irreparable damage has been done to our small business. We are not a large producer of chocolate like Cadbury’s, but operate at the luxury end of the market with the highest quality ingredients. We are unable to run a profitable business in these trying conditions and so have reluctantly taken the decision to close our doors permanently.

    We thank all of our customers and suppliers for their loyalty and support over the past few years.

    The Apprentice will continue to make her cakes part-time and will continue to post on Skye Celebration Cakes. If you would like to follow her on that page it would give her a wee boost.

    Thank you all again.

    “Price worth paying,” I expect. Sigh.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Our forum chocolatier @zippykona will be along in a bit asking the same questions he has been asking for three years… and they won’t be surprised in the slightest by that news.

    Premier Icon Andy
    Subscriber

    It is labour dithering that has or will enable a Tory brexit. You forget that labour are being destroyed in the polls not because they have gone remain, but because they didn’t go remain hard enough.

    Agreed, and also maybe they are being destroyed in the polls, or rather they are slowly snatching defeat from the jaws of victory because they didnt really do anything. That and Corbyn is still an electoral liability

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Again from Facebook:

    As you may well have heard, this morning the highest court in Scotland ruled that the 5 week prorogation of Parliament…

    Posted by Kerry McCarthy on Wednesday, September 11, 2019

    Kerry McCarthy

    As you may well have heard, this morning the highest court in Scotland ruled that the 5 week prorogation of Parliament by Boris Johnson was illegal, and void. The wording of the judgment is damning. Lord Carloway said that prorogation would be unlawful if “its purpose was to stymie parliamentary scrutiny of the executive, which was a central pillar of the good governance principle enshrined in the constitution”; all three judges decided that it was. Lord Brodie said that attempting to frustrate parliament in this way was “an egregious case of a clear failure to comply with generally accepted standards of behaviour of public authorities”. And Lord Drummon Young said that “the only inference that could be drawn was that the UK Government and the Prime Minister wished to restrict Parliament.”

    I am proud to be one of the MPs who put their name to this application. Parliament should be sitting at this time of national crisis. Today I joined a cross-party group of MPs outside Parliament, calling for Parliament to return.

    (Followed by loads of brexies arguing that it’s only unlawful and not illegal…)

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    (I wonder idly whether if it goes to the Supreme Court and gets the same result, the leavers will want it to go to Europe…)

    scotroutes
    Member

    It’s about now that we need a referendum on Scottish Independence – all voting to take place in England.

    dannyh
    Member

    (I wonder idly whether if it goes to the Supreme Court and gets the same result, the leavers will want it to go to Europe…)

    The leaders will, they NEED Brexit to happen and, cynical bastards that they are, don’t give a shit how it happens.

    The stupid sheep that follow won’t even notice the irony and hypocrisy.

    Premier Icon BoardinBob
    Subscriber

    The unbridled hatred for Scotland daring to have the temerity to get involved above their station is just splendid. We should know our place!

    Union of equals my arse. Independence can’t come quick enough.

    Premier Icon AD
    Subscriber

    A few dickheads on facebook doesn’t make for pure unbridled hatred.
    Any more than some of comments from Scots about the English. Please don’t buy into it.

    That kind of divisiveness is EXACTLY what Cummings and his ilk are aiming for.

    Personally I’m loving the thought of how the quitlings are reconciling their anointed one lying to the Queen 🙂

    grumpygit
    Member

    Can someone please enlighten me as to why the unions / mcCluckclucky are so against the EU? Surely they should be pro EU as a backstop (snigger) for workers rights??

    Nick

    Because Len McCluskey is a dinosaur.

    grumpygit
    Member

    Beautifully reasoned.

    Yes he is a dinosaur but I can’t find his public protestations as to why we need to leave.

    mrmo
    Member

    no conflict honest.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    but I can’t find his public protestations as to why we need to leave.

    difficult to re-nationalise utilities and industries while in the EU

    piemonster
    Member

    Yellow hammer is a 5 page document?

    piemonster
    Member

    difficult to re-nationalise utilities and industries while in the EU

    Somewhere around 0% chance if it happening outside the EU

    grahamh
    Member

    mmm, so what is in the redacted part of that pdf?

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    Yellow hammer is a 5 page document?

    Good to see it seems to be photocopied. I assume to try and hide any awkward metadata and makes it difficult to search.
    I want to see that blanked out paragraph. I cant see NI mentioned anywhere (although see search difficulties) so reckon thats it and they aint too optimistic its going to go well there.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    Bloody hell, that makes for bleak reading. Should be handed out to all those who voted leave.

    grumpygit
    Member

    I imagine the doc was scanned to prevent a manafprt style release where you could just unhide the redaction

    piemonster
    Member

    From listening to leave voters, that’ll not bother them much.

    grumpygit
    Member

    Can they read? More seriously, dogmatically they couldn’t believe it and would claim project fear

    piemonster
    Member

    It’ll be dismissed as an extreme worst case scenario. At best! A bit of belt tightening will do us good, short term pain etc etc.

    spekkie
    Member

    So the government wrote its own Project Fear manifesto 😉

    At least watching the inhabitants of Thurrock killing each other for the last Krispy Kreme at Tesco’s will be entertaining.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Subscriber

    It’ll be dismissed as an extreme worst case scenario. At best! A bit of belt tightening will do us good, short term pain etc etc.

    Which just goes to show what an amazing con job has been done. We’ve gone from:
    we hold all the cards
    there are no negatives, only positives
    taking back control
    sovereignity
    £350million a week for the NHS

    to delays, rising costs and fuel/food/medicine shortages. And no-one (well, none of the Leavers) seem upset or annoyed by this…

    It’s like finding out you’ve been conned out of your entire life savings and rather than being furious with yourself for falling for it and the scammer for conning you, you’re just going “oh well, I hope the scammer has a nice time with the money”

    Scotland should just start making lots more shit illegal.

    Mentioning the 1966 World Cup should land you a ten stretch for starters

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Summary, for those who CBA to read a five page document (commentary in brackets):

    People and businesses in the UK aren’t prepared. The EU27 is.

    The impact to the EU would be negative in “a small number of cases” (they need us more than etc etc…)

    Protests across UK expected.

    Low income groups disproportionately affected.

    Agri-food hardest hit. Fresh food supply will decrease. (And Christmas is a-coming.)

    Medicine shortages could last 6 months. Veterinary supply shortages could exacerbate epidemics.

    Kent gridlocked. Lorries will be waiting to cross the Channel for two days.

    Fuel disrupted, especially in London / SE.

    Financial services disrupted.

    If there’s water cleaning chemical supply chain disruption it will now only likely affect hundreds of thousands of people (!)

    Data flow from the EU stops. Rectifying “could take years.” (This is Really Bad.)

    No more EHIC. (Get sick on holiday, best have your credit card to hand.)

    Gibraltar (anyone remember them?) is basically ****ed.

    Trade in Ireland severely disrupted and the “no backstop” notion unsustainable beyond a few days or weeks. Rise in illegal trading, job losses, protests.

    Nearly 300 non-UK fishing vessels poised to rock up on day one and stripmine our waters. (Which is just weapons-grade ironic given how much time we’ve spent in the last three years papping on about fish like it’s important to more than about ten people). Smuggling, people trafficking.

    Adult social care will be screwed, but then it’s screwed to start with.

    (Sunny uplands, anyone?)

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    mmm, so what is in the redacted part of that pdf?

    Source pending verification so pinch of salt but,

    15. Facing EU tariffs makes petrol exports to the EU uncompetitive. Industry had plans to mitigate the impact on refinery margins and profitability but UK Government policy to set petrol import tariffs at 0% inadvertently undermines these plans. This leads to significant financial losses and announcement of two refinery closures (and transition to import terminals) and direct job losses (about 2000). Resulting strike action at refineries would lead to disruptions to fuel availability for 1-2 weeks in the regions directly supplied by the refineries.”

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