EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Premier Icon kimbers
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    Rory Stewart only looks moderate because the rest of them are such headbangers. It is a Tory leadership contest after all and it’s one being carried out in the shadow of farage, who’s driving them further right

    He’s also a rare thing from either party- an MP that’s willing to be honest about our Brexit options!

    Bit sad he didn’t back labours no deal motion, I can’t see that it’ll make much difference to his chances, tho the motion itself is still no guarantee that no deal can be stopped. There’s only 1 way to do that!

    DrJ
    Member

    He’s also a rare thing from either party- an MP that’s willing to be honest about our Brexit options!

    Apparently not, since …

    Bit sad he didn’t back labours no deal motion,

    Premier Icon binners
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    This makes for terrifying reading – how Boris Johnson supporters poll

    While only around a quarter of the wider British public support leaving the EU without a Brexit deal, an amazing 85% of Johnson’s supporters within the party are keen on a no-deal departure.

    We really are totally ****ed! They’ll elect him as PM, then gleefully cheer him on as he crashes the economy off a cliff.

    Then probably start agitating for bringing back public hangings, smallpox and workhouses

    Global Britain.

    Even if a tory comes across as seemingly okay a quick look at their voting record will soon show them voting against human rights, against sexual equality, against welfare and for things such as hunting etc, etc

    Maybe. But I’d rather have Rory in opposition than Johnson, May or Cameron, at least Rory has shown himself to be capable of listening to other viewpoints. Do you hold Bercow and Clarke with utter contempt as well?

    We really are totally ****ed! They’ll elect him as PM, then gleefully cheer him on as he crashes the economy off a cliff.

    Maybe.

    The reality is that despite all the cock waving and tough talking, any future PM is going to face exactly the same constraints that led to the demise of Theresa May, namely, no majority for WA or No Deal, negotiations on WA closed, and, the big one – the Irish Border. Reality is going to hit home hard round about September. As I have said before, it’s really easy to stand in the crowd below shouting ‘jump’, but it’s not going to be so great when you are the one standing on the precipice.

    So with the newcomer having painted themselves into a ‘I am so rufty tufty’ corner, the EU (who also want to avoid No Deal), will probably only offer an extension if the parliamentary deadlock is broken. Ergo, General Election or Referendum later this year.

    We’re already **** to be fair. It’s now just working out if we are going to keep circling the pan, or is someone going to flush us.

    Rory has even gone so far as mentioning national service which should get them all excited seeing as they think it is still 1942 and don’t realise the next war will be cyber based and not fought with armies.

    I think you will find that Britain is right now at the regal head of the far reaching Commonwealth Empire and is commanded by Her Royal Majesty Queen Victoria. Isambard Kingdom Brunel also builds the world’s greatest ships and our Navy is the largest in the world.

    kerley
    Member

    Maybe. But I’d rather have Rory in opposition than Johnson, May or Cameron, at least Rory has shown himself to be capable of listening to other viewpoints. Do you hold Bercow and Clarke with utter contempt as well?

    Not sure where the utter contempt bit came from but if one of the options for tory leader was Ken Clarke I would join the Tory party to vote for him!

    Yeah Ken Clarke is completely wasted on the Tories, Stewart is as well – it’s just that I think he is still wedded to to an idea of the Tories that doesn’t exist anymore and has perhaps been more willing to toe the party line. Bercow should be a liberal democrat, for the life of me I can’t understand why he hasn’t switched sides yet – maybe he’s just having fun being a real life version of an STW forum baiting troll.

    Premier Icon edhornby
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    Torso has the nail on the head

    Reality is going to hit home hard round about September.

    because the UK did the deal with the EU – not tories, not Theresa herself – and we had one go at it. the future relationship is still for debate but no-one is talking about that because the options are we have to go with their trading deals and accept the movement rules – or we sit on the edge and miss out on all the good stuff whilst still paying for access

    Premier Icon binners
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    Bercow is clearly having the time of his life, and loving every minute of winding up the headbangers. And good luck to him! Apparently he’s got a big following around the EU leaders who are also rather enjoying the performance

    He’s taken on the air of Father Dick Byrne in Father Ted, as the nemesis of the ERG. Just knocking them back because he can, so just doing it for shits and giggles, knowing full-well there’s absolutely nothing they can do about it.

    If theres anything good to come out of this shitshow, its watching the proper gammons like Bill Cash, Pete Bone and Mark Francois absolutely seething because he’s not allowing them to ‘Take Back Control’ or ‘ride roughshod over parliamentary democracy’, depending on whether you’re mental or not.

    I mean, this is just brilliant…

    Premier Icon kimbers
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    stevextc
    Member

    Regardless of Tory leadership the issue here is divided parties.
    Both Labour and Tory make a big deal about a divided nation … what a load of bovine excrement.

    What is it they think happens every GE ?
    May was in power … and decided on everyone’s behalf that 100% of leave voters voted for her to get a deal … Corbyn was more worried about forcing a GE … and quite plainly happy to disregard labour membership wanting a full say final ref….

    And as for Cameron … he asked a half question to start with based on hubris.

    stevextc
    Member

    Esther McVey told LBC that foreign aid has been mis-spent, including on an airport where the runway was built in the wrong direction facing the wind.

    Other than her just making this up … she shows a distinct lack of understanding of the compass and that runways can be used in both directions and that into the wind is the preferable one. But other than that sounds completely credible,

    She’s not making it up. She’s just misinformed (that’s the nicest possible way I can put it).

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/21/st-helena-islanders-compensation-285m-airport

    Premier Icon dissonance
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    I wonder if she means the St Helena airport which has run into problems due to dangerous winds making it a bit interesting landing.
    However there is the minor detail that it is a British Overseas territory so not really part of what would be considered foreign aid.

    Premier Icon binners
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    Isn’t most foreign ‘aid’ just grants, loans and export guarantees for dodgy regimes to buy British made explodey things to use on people they don’t like? Normally their neighbours, who we’re also arming in a similar fashion?

    Premier Icon dissonance
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    Normally their neighbours, who we’re also arming in a similar fashion?

    I dont think most arms stuff goes through foreign aid but instead has its own special slush fund (export guarantee) which also includes nicely dressed officers to act as salesmen.
    However yes a fair amount of foreign aid (from all countries) is really a hidden subsidy for companies resident in the country providing the foreign aid.

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    That airport is now in full use and doing vital good… but I don’t think it has anything to do with the EU, or our relationship with it… perhaps take this chat about “aid” to another thread.

    Premier Icon binners
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    Imagine that? A prominent (and so, by nature, ill-informed) Brexiteer using a load of factually-incorrect whataboutery to imply that something is all the EU’s fault?

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    Well MPs have voted against parliament wrestling any control away from whoever our next PM is as regards a No Deal Brexit. Lots of the candidates for PM now “promising” that we will Leave at the end of October, come what may. Doesn’t look good, does it.

    Premier Icon dazh
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    Doesn’t look good, does it.

    Obviously all Corbyn’s fault, and not at all that of people like Rory Stewart who despite talking big on how he doesn’t want no deal, still toes the party line to preserve his already non-existent leadership credentials.

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    Yes, whipping in the past to enable Brexit… playing the long game to do what? People warned that trying to stop No Deal at the final hurdle would be futile. Too late. In fact, go back a few years and you’ll see predictions in this thread that Corbyn would change tact only once Brexit could no longer be stopped… so we get Brexit, the Tories are blamed, we then get a Labour government in the aftermath. It’s always looked like the plan. Not sure the last step is a given though.

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    Oh god… IDS is loving his own voice on the radio again… with his usual bullshit. Soon to have the ear of a new gung ho PM.

    scotroutes
    Member

    But veteran eurosceptic, Conservative Sir Bill Cash said it was a “phantom motion” which paved the way for “government by Parliament”.

    Which doesn’t sound a bad thing. Or am I missing something?

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    What’s most odd, is parliament voting against giving itself proper oversight of the process when it doesn’t even know who will be PM come October. Full trust in the unknown.

    Anyway… what was I rambling about in reply to @Dazh bringing this back to Corbyn while we were all busy complaining about Tories… oh… yes…

    https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/jeremy-corbyn-wants-a-tory-brexit-alistair-darling_uk_5d00aa56e4b075510399d24f

    Jeremy Corbyn wants a “Tory Brexit” so the Conservative Party gets the blame “when things go wrong”, former Labour chancellor Alistair Darling has said.

    Darling doesn’t have any answers of his own though. And he was the architect of austerity (ssshhh) so probably not the best person to quote as regards current Labour policies.

    Premier Icon dissonance
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    what was I rambling about in reply to @Dazh bringing this back to Corbyn while we were all busy complaining about Tories… oh… yes…

    You missed some key parts of his comment eg “I think”. As sources of reliable information about what Corbyn actually thinks (which does seem rather hard to call properly) it is just above Binners opinion.

    Premier Icon binners
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    Corbyn dearly wants Brexit. Always has, always will. But he doesn’t want his fingerprints on it. Because he’s a coward and a fraud.

    Hes also pretty bloody delusional if he thinks that his complicit enabling at every critical juncture – which is still continuing with his absolute refusal to have any kind of confirmatory vote – isn’t clearly obvious to all but the most terminally naive

    The ownership of this disaster is just as much his. As all the former labour voters who’ve switched to the Lib Dem’s, Greens and SNP have just reminded him

    Never was too quick on the political uptake though…

    Premier Icon binners
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    John Snow on channel 4 news is going to have to reappraise his assertion that he’s never seen so many white people (at a pro-Brexit rally), if the Tory leadership contest audiences are anything to go by.

    To say it’s hardly diverse would be an understatement

    White. Old. Male. And, no doubt, very comfortably well off.

    Premier Icon binners
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    I wonder if the 8 labour MP’s who voted with the Tories to enable a no deal Brexit will get the full Alastair Campbell treatment of instant dismissal from the party?

    Or face any censure at all?

    I wonder how Jezza would have voted if he hadn’t been trapped in his own personal nightmare where he’d accidentally become party leader?

    Hmmmmmm…..

    Premier Icon dissonance
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    Hmmmmmm…..

    Are you suggesting that MPs should be kicked out of the party for not toeing the party line?
    Thats a tad authoritarian isnt it? I thought you were against that sort of thing?

    Premier Icon binners
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    Just suggesting that some consistency would be nice

    One rule for one….

    Oh… you’re a friend of Jeremy’s…. carry on….

    Let’s be honest… If there hadn’t been a terrible 3 quid-based administrative error a few years back, you know he’d be voting with them, right?

    They all know it

    Kate Hoey might as well be a Brexit Party member but she knows she’s safe as houses as a ‘fellow traveller’ to the glorious leader

    Premier Icon kimbers
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    oh kate hoey, she should be fired

    Brexit Breach: Labour Data Was Shared With Leave EU And Cambridge Analytica

    Data based upon demographics, class, finances and ethnicity, was used to identify core groups of Labour voters to be targeted with UKIP-led messaging and was instrumental in deciding where Nigel Farage appeared to speak during the Brexit campaign.

    Leave.EU, Cambridge Analytica, the RMT Union and Trade Unions Against EU, and Labour MP Kate Hoey – associated with Labour Leave – gained access to the information via Labour’s 2015 general election data guru before referendum campaigns were officially designated by the Electoral Commission.

    Blue Collar workers, struggling families, students, and ethnic minorities were among those specifically designated valuable to tailored social media targeting and doorstep canvassing. The data provided specific postcodes to be targeted on and offline, in order to attract millions of votes across the country – enough to swing the divisive referendum result.

    that she hasnt is mindboggling

    PrinceJohn
    Member

    Food for thought…

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    Oh, I hadn’t realised that the vote would have been won, if it wasn’t for Labour rebels. Why would they vote for parliament not to take (limited) powers away from a Tory party without a leader? I mean, even if they are proBrexit, how can they be pro an undefined headless Tory party being handed the reigns on the run up to our exit? They trust the as yet unappointed PM more than Parliament as a whole?

    mattyfez
    Member

    It beggars belief…
    They should be sacked from Labour and made to be independent or face a byelection in thier areas.

    But magic grandad wants the keys to No. 10, and it suits his agenda to keep them on board.

    Party before country, just as bad as the Conservatives.

    Premier Icon binners
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    Far worse!

    You expect nothing better from them. The Tory’s are the Torys. Expectations are low, to say the least

    But the nutters in the Tory leadership contest are at least representing the views of their members and voters. Karl Marx’s garden gnome doesn’t even seem remotely interested in any of that shit

    It’s all about what he thinks. Restoring party democracy… my arse! Just check if Seamus says it’s ok…

    dannyh
    Member

    It’s going to have to happen isn’t it?

    Every opportunity the nutters and the ‘easily led’ have had to face up to reality has been shunned, because of a combination of lying and stupidity.

    So, we are going to have to go over the edge. But it still won’t be their stupid fault, it will be the E.U. or immigrants or anyone with a different skin colour. Again.

    A plague on all their houses.

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