EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • tjagain
    Member

    He really is spectacularly deluded! There is no negotiation possible now. Ask for one and the first thing they will say is NI backstop? No? then on yer bike son and there is also no negotiation for a hard leave.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    Some wonderful responses to the tweet.

    In other news Boris Johnson tweets “Our oceans are in real trouble. 90% of big fish have gone. As PM I will take on the lawlessness of the high seas, end the scourge of plastic pollution & honour in full our commitment to protect 4m KM2 of oceans in our beautiful overseas territories”.

    Just like that eh Boris?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Is he going to ensure world peace shortly after sorting that out?

    nick1962
    Member

    F*ck me give the guy a break! He’s just had a very stressfull court case to contend with and so is letting his tousled hair down and have a bit of a skunk,charlie and champers sesh.Save the seas,world peace ,may even apologise for his scousers comments ,anything is possible.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Brexit is consuming the tories

    Premier Icon doomanic
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    If he gets deselected, what does that actually mean? Does he have to stand down immediately?

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    Does he have to stand down immediately?

    Nope. Even if someone is thrown out of a party entirely they can still remain as an MP they would just be an independent.
    For the tories the no confidence is a starting point towards making the MP have to stand as a candidate against other potential candidates as opposed to being automatically renominated.
    In theory they could still stand anyway as an independent.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    His constituency was 54% remain too

    but the membership (+ a few UKIP infiltrators) are hard right brexiteers to the core

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    So, candidates to be Tory PM happy to talk about keeping parliament closed to “protect democracy”, and the Labour leadership team trying to sideline their MPs who talk about the public having a vote and stopping Brexit. What a mess. Thanks Dave.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Fun, fun, fun…

    It’s what we voted for… etc.

    vazaha
    Member

    No, we’re really not. The obsessive on both sides of this issue would like there to be one, the rest of us want it sorted one way or the other so we can think about other things.

    “But let’s not kid ourselves that there is a middle ground now.”

    Evidence for that?

    You are probably right that a ‘war’ is not quite the right way to characterise it, but I genuinely think it has gone beyond a reasonable compromise, beyond a ‘ middle ground’.

    As much as ‘the rest of’ anyone might want an end to it, there really isn’t one in sight for the intermediate future. The ‘Deal’ that has thus far been negotiated with the EU, the ‘easiest in history’ lest we forget, isn’t even one – just an agreement to work towards one at sometime in the nearest future. And even this has got as much traction as a bald rear tyre on the wet pebbles of Cardiac Hill, just as you are already beginning to flag.

    So whatever is to come next will come up against the rock of a ‘no deal’ and the hard place of the ‘WA’. The former being completely unacceptable to anyone with a brain, and the latter just as unacceptable to anyone who makes any kind of comparison with the deal we already have.

    I have no evidence for that beyond it being pretty much self evident. If, as you surmise, there is a large bulge in the normally distributed middle that just wants us to get on with leaving, is it not just as likely they’ll be equally sanguine about staying?

    is it not just as likely they’ll be equally sanguine about staying?

    Apparently it is. I know the more enlightened among us scoff at polling data these days, but:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/06/everything-you-think-you-know-about-leavers-and-remainers-wrong

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Yeah, it’s just polling data… but in there is reinforcement of the key points made again and again in this thread…

    …support for the Brexit Party is higher among financially comfortable voters — adding to previous research showing that support for no-deal is also higher in that group.

    Brexit is overwhelming supported by those financially positioned to shield themselves from the effects. It is not the project of the workers living pay cheque to pay cheque, it is the boondoggle of those who have no genuine empathy for people living that kind of a life.

    …whichever way the government chooses to leave the EU will end up making a large number of Leavers unhappy.

    Again and again posters have pointed out that no single Brexit is preferred to keeping EU membership, and any single Brexit will be letting down 2016 Leave voters just as much as 2016 Remain voters. Delivering the “wrong Brexit” will simply feed a betrayal narrative, as those who voted Leave in 2016 see something delivered that is far from whichever version of Brexit they personally feel they were sold.

    …among people who voted Labour in 2017, 72 per cent of Remainers would mind “a lot” about leaving the EU, whereas only 25 per cent of Labour Leavers mind “a lot” about Remaining.

    Labour need to wake up. Not only did its support at the last general election come overwhelmingly from people what voted to Remain in 2016, but those that did vote Leave in 2016 are not nearly as wedded to Brexit as the media & politicians with a particular narrative to push would have you think.

    As these headlines roll in, it helps to remember that this was all totally unnecessary. An issue that no one cared about apart from some Tory backbenchers and Robert Kilroy-Silk. A referendum to unite the Conservative Party. And now the **** are falling over each other to see who can destroy the country the hardest.

    https://amp.ft.com/content/93c681ca-7c9c-11e9-81d2-f785092ab560?__twitter_impression=true

    scotroutes
    Member

    An issue that no one cared about apart from some Tory backbenchers and Robert Kilroy-Silk.

    And Jeremy Corbyn.

    kerley
    Member

    An issue that no one cared about

    To me this the worst part of it all as now it seems to be a big issue for people who had no interest in or cared about before 2016. Perspective needs to be brought back to them but too late now, it really doesn’t matter to most people and how their lives are led whether the UK is in the EU or not.

    dannyh
    Member

    A referendum to unite the Conservative Party.

    It has to rank as the single biggest purely political miscalculation made by a serving prime minister since the second world war, at least.

    Eden/Suez 1956 and Blair/Iraq 2003 are two ‘foreign policy’ ones that also stand out, but the amount of damage done by Brexit is all so unnecessary and virtually unbelievable.

    Call me Dave was meant to be the ultimate embodiment of the smooth PR man – yet his fundamental insecurity led directly to this point. Sure the Daily Mail banged away for decades and people believed it, but until early 2016 it just wasn’t a real issue for most people on either side of the argument.

    It was a question that should never have been asked in the first place.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Perspective needs to be brought back to them but too late now…

    It may be too late for the Tory party.
    It may be too late for those voting for the Brexit Party.
    It may be too late for those who have already had their “proper job” in manufacturing dissolved, and are now in a McJob.

    It’s not too late for the UK as a whole… we can stop throwing money, jobs and family lives at this boondoggle and stop it before we leave. Any politician not actively working towards that end is part of the problem.

    Yes, irreparable damage is already occurring, but any method of leaving the EU will just cause more damage.

    …it really doesn’t matter to most people and how their lives are led whether the UK is in the EU or not.

    It doesn’t “matter” to them because people keep telling them that we can Leave with some kind of “jobs first” or “only considerable upsides” arrangement in place.

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    tjagain
    Member

    So labour have started the process to get a binding motion through parliament to prevent no deal giving lie to the false narrative on here that no deal is what Corbyn wants.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    If the rest of Labour push Corbyn into line before October, you’re just going to say “see, his resistance was just a clever ruse”, aren’t you? Those MPs that are most fully behind his leadership are now openly critizing his lack of action on Brexit… he’s in the corner… and he either wakes up, or moves over.

    And who said he wants “no deal”? He’s pushed for a Hard Brexit, not “no deal”… although “some” have conflated the two… I don’t think he wants no deal… he wants a steady transition to being outside the Single Market without FoM, does he not?

    Boris Johnson 5/7
    Jeremy Hunt 5/1
    Andrea Leadsom 8/1
    Michael Gove 18/1
    Rory Stewart 33/1
    Dominic Raab 37/1
    Sajid Javid 37/1
    Matthew Hancock 129/1
    Esther McVey 169/1
    Mark Harper 519/1

    Words fail.

    chewkw
    Member

    Words fail.

    That line up looks like the end of Conservative party in the next GE.

    The poisoned chalice will pass on to the next main party I guess …

    All hail JC as the future PM after the next GE!

    Magic grandad is going to perform his magic. 👏 👍

    Premier Icon Del
    Subscriber

    Not a chance

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    All of them, apart from Rory Stewart, are living in some fantasy world and sounding increasingly unhinged as they cozy up to the headbangers of the ERG

    Listening to Andrea Leadsom read out what she’s going to renegotiate with the E.U. is like listening to a 3 year old girl read some fantastical letter to Santa

    A pony
    … and s princesses castle in the clouds
    … and a pet flamingo..
    … and…

    sobriety
    Member

    Nothing to add, but this sentence had me laughing out loud

    …the urgent reappraisal of May has now begun. As the Tory candidates were launching their campaigns yesterday, journalist John Rentoul tweeted that May ”wasn’t that bad, actually, was she?”. Only the answer is yes, John. Yes she emphatically was. Just because the Tory leadership candidates have, in the space of two weeks, shifted the Overton window of mediocrity beyond even the most credible outer limit of the Dunning-Kruger effect…

    Premier Icon MSP
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    All of them, apart from Rory Stewart, are living in some fantasy world and sounding increasingly unhinged as they cozy up to the headbangers of the ERG.

    The trouble is Rory Stewart is just another public school oxbridge tory, gifted sucsess by status and family contacts, but believes that what separates him from those his supported policies victimises is his ability, not realising that the incredible opportunities he has are available to only a select lucky few.

    His voting record would have put him on the right wing of the party just a few years ago, but so extreme has the political landscape been skewed, he now looks like a reasonable candidate. If he did win the party leadership, I also think he would win a general election by a landslide.

    Rory Stewart

    Saving Britain’s local post offices by keeping government subsidies going and making them more ‘entrepreneurial’;
    Abolishing ‘offensive’ hospital parking charges;
    Taking on firms such as Amazon in a bid to save the high streets.
    Stripping honours from people like Sir Philip Green;
    Improving sluggish broadband speeds for rural areas.

    I guess bus routes had already been taken.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    It shows how much the politics of this country has been corrupted beyond all recognition.

    All the other candidates are absolute nutters who’s slavish adherence to an insane right wing ideology is going to cause catastrophic economic and social damage

    Given the present collective madness of the Tory Party, Rory Stewart hasn’t got a hope. Not a prayer! It’s like they’ve all signed some mad suicide pact, but they’ve signed the rest of us up to it too

    And as to the worst ever PM? And who’s fault this absolute debacle is? Credit where it’s due…

    DrJ
    Member

    All of them, apart from Rory Stewart, are living in some fantasy world and sounding increasingly unhinged as they cozy up to the headbangers of the ERG.

    Well. That didn’t last long did it? Tory Stewart will vote with the ERG to thwart attempts by parliament to rule out a No Deal Brexit. Can’t say I’m surprised.

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    Well, bang goes the “Rory the Reasonable Tory” smokescreen… he won’t help parliament put a block on no deal… because why would Tory MPs who want to stop no deal support him then? They’d be free to pick any of the other candidates, safe in the knowledge that their no deal tub thumbing will come to nothing. He wants to use Brexit to gain power, just like… well… you can list them.

    [ yes, the other candidates are worse ]

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    A line I’ve seen across 4 different papers in the last few days, “Tory moderate Amber Rudd”. Funny old world.

    binners

    Subscriber

    All of them, apart from Rory Stewart, are living in some fantasy world

    He’s living in the real world but he’s running as a fantasy Rory Stewart not the real one.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Ironic isn’t it that when the EU said ‘don’t waste this extension’, they probably didn’t mean for the Tory party to install a hardline ERG headbanger as PM who will then hit the accelerator to plunge us off the no deal cliff on October the 31st. And for the ‘opposition’ such as it is, to continue to sit, mute, on the fence and watch on impotently while they do.

    I bet they’re looking at this shitshow and now thinking they can’t wait to see the back of us, and this really is the end of the line this time. And who can blame them?

    Does anyone have the remotest hope of any other option than that? Because as it looks at the moment, it’d take a pretty remarkable chain of events to prevent it.

    Premier Icon rone
    Subscriber

    Whoever thought Rory Stewart was reasonable?

    He’s just another right winger with a calm mannerism.

    Class A tit.

    DrJ
    Member

    And for the ‘opposition’ such as it is, to continue to sit, mute, on the fence and watch on impotently while they do.

    Including your new man-crush Rory Stewart – the man who makes Jeremy Corbyn look like David Gandy.

    kerley
    Member

    Whoever thought Rory Stewart was reasonable?

    I guess the people who got taken in by him. It is pretty simple, they are all Tories and they are all trying to appease the members (with average age of 80). Rory has even gone so far as mentioning national service which should get them all excited seeing as they think it is still 1942 and don’t realise the next war will be cyber based and not fought with armies.

    Even if a tory comes across as seemingly okay a quick look at their voting record will soon show them voting against human rights, against sexual equality, against welfare and for things such as hunting etc, etc,.

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