What is treasonous is Jacob Cream Cracker wanting to shackle us to the WTO.

An unelected set of foreign beaureaucrats that will force us to put our prices up.

How dare he wave the white flag to those war dodging nazi sympathisers. Where were they in our darkest hour?

The **** should be thrown in the tower and then hung drawn and quartered. I tell you he would never betray this country again after that.

Harsh but fair.

That’s for the remainers.  Opposing brexit is treason, apparently.

I can see a future in a few small Miss Marple villages where borderline brexiteers might be dunked into the water to see if they drown.

For sure, it’d make for an interesting episode of Heartbeat.

The document says: ‘In the event of withdrawal from the United Kingdom without agreement, British nationals who enjoy the right of free movement and free establishment throughout the European Union, as well as members of their family, will become nationals of third parties and will therefore in principle be subject to common law, that is to say to the requirement to present a visa to enter the French territory and to justify a residence permit to stay there.
‘In case of withdrawal from the United Kingdom of the European Union without agreement, British nationals currently residing in France and their family members would be staying illegally.’

Anyone else vaguely tickled by the prospect of Ninfan getting deported and  British illegals wailing on tv and to papers that like to routinely demonise migrants in this country?

I’m not one for schadenfreude.  However, I’m all over “I told you so.”

Project fear / no price is too high / we knew what we were voting for etc etc.

Well it is almost Halloween,  we could do some apple dunking  and hold the heads down in the barrel of a few politicians .

Drunken accidents do happen..

Junkers is ****ed then.

Can’t someone at least pretend to a brexiteer so we’ve got someone to argue with?

Bbcqt. James Cleverly needs to be bombered in the slats. Starmer trying to explain a difficult pioint to the plebiscite and all he can do is mock.

Can’t someone at least pretend to a brexiteer so we’ve got someone to argue with?

We are due one of those random , pop up , one week only ranty leavers any day now.

Teamchewdickfan.

the omnishambles rumbles on

I’ll see your “omnishambles”, and raise you “shitshow”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/18/johnny-mercer-tory-backbencher-frustration-may-government

I’d almost welcome a Jamba or a THM right now, in order to paint a positive picture of the forthcoming shit storm.

I’d almost welcome a Jamba or a THM right now, in order to paint a positive picture of the forthcoming shit storm.

The bankers have made plans and will all get by fine.

How did I do?

Plus there will be less immigrants (combination of not letting them in plus them not wanting to be here any way and less jobs to do).  That’s a positive to many.

Can’t someone at least pretend to a brexiteer so we’ve got someone to argue with

I won’t go there but maybe it’s at least worth holding back a tad on the hysteria until we get the curtain call.

May certainly seems to wriggle out of things.

I do think the constant reporting is a field day and not making things any clearer.

I mean – how many times have we heard a vote of no confidence is coming?

(Or pop over to piston heads EU thread – you will struggle to find a remainer. )

I do think the constant reporting is a field day and not making things any clearer.

Does make you wonder what is slipping by withyus seeing it.

I think it’s beginning to look like “kick the can down the toad” is taking over.

Both sides will just allow more and more time in the hope that a solution to the NI border problem will emerge (as it probably will, given enough gestation) and all the nappy-wearing shouty Brexiteer types will calm down/run out of energy/cry themselves to sleep.

A classic fudge (good thing) will result in a workable compromise (another good thing) and we can all shut the door on it and get on.

I don’t understand what the extension is going to achieve?  Just allow more time to solve the problem or what?

You don’t understand what the extension is meant to achieve?

This

The bankers have made plans and will all get by fine.

I liked it when jambalaya said that there was no bad brexit effect on the economy because luxury yacht makers were doing great 😂😂

The schadenfreude is strong with this one.

Where did all those signs in fields get them?

@rone

I do think the constant reporting is a field day and not making things any clearer.

It is actually very clear; we triggered A50 too soon & were totally unprepared. And the Brexiters MPs in particular have made huge errors, Davis, Johnson, Gove, Leadsom, even Hunt exposed as dangerously stupid. The entire cabinet signed off on the NI backstop last December, even Mogg hailed it as a victory, now they say they didn’t understand it. That was a 15 page document, trade deals run to many 1000s. They have got a hope.

It’s about where you get your news from, if you just read the pro brexit press & listened to the Brexiters this chaos comes as a surprise. Their magic wand that turned any potential downsides into ‘Project Fear’ was always gonna bite them in the arse one day.

If they’d written ‘Brexit will be insanely complex & cost the country £350m a week ‘ on their bus, then maybe people wouldn’t be so confused now.

As i said though, it’s about where you get your news from, Brexitcenteral is pro-brexit site run by actual grownups & well worth checking out, Peston, kussenberg, newton-dunn, Harry Cole, NinIa schick , faisal islam, ian dunt, Jim cornelius all worth following on Twitter, don’t follow the likes of Mogg- he has a terrible record of tweeting fakenews about stuff he obviously doesn’t understand (or knows his followers don’t understand) about the WTO etc. Guardian live blog is by far best political blog around, not necessarily for its own content, but for the other sources it links to.

2 very good reads recently – the FTs look at Olly Robbins (& Sabine weyand) THMs ‘grown ups’ that are doing the actual negotiations & how the process works

https://www.ft.com/content/a7298efa-cc1c-11e8-b276-b9069bde0956

And Ivan Rogers, ex ambassador to the EU, recent speech

Download available here..

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86987

Dwelling on a few home truths, Sir Ivan pointed out that none of this was difficult to foretell. Leaving the EU would be a tortuous process not an event, would take years to get right, and would involve hundreds of individual issues and complex trade-offs on both sides. No FTA on the planet has been easy and rapid to negotiate, and this is the first one on the planet which will be between partners seeking to diminish rather than enhance their level of trade liberalisation and integration.

Both explain far more about what brexit actually entails than you’ll find in a day of reading every paper & watching skynews & bbcnews for a solid week

What I take from it all is that the Brexiters are either stupid or lying.

What Johnny Mercer calls a sh*tshow is the inevitable consequence of brexit: Thatcher rebuilt the economy: finance, agriculture, manufacturing, around tbe single market, May is desperately trying to keep the benefits of membership after we leave.

And the GFAs open border as it is now, would’ve been impossible to replicate had NI. & Ireland not both been within the EU

The problem for May & the Brexiters is that they have spent the last 3 years (well, 2.3 years for May) pretending those benefits don’t exist.

The problems (& their solutions) that led people to vote for brexit have always been in Westminster not Brussles.

Northern working class communities voted for Brexit because somehow – maybe because all their mates own all the media – the Tories managed to convince them that the poverty and hopelessness that a decade of Tory austerity had delivered them was actually the fault of immigrants and the EU

What is going to happen when instead of the land of milk and honey they were promised, Brexit is then exploited by right-wing ideologues to turbocharge this rampant inequality and makes their lives infinitely worse?

Theres only one way this is all going to end….

I’ll just leave this here!!

 Theres only one way this is all going to end….

Those who have instigated this sh*t storm, won’t care if a load of working class oiks set fire to their own neighbourhoods. Hard Brexit, economic chaos, riots, end of the GFA, Its all simply a means to an end for them, like the trump supporters who thank the Russians, or the Christian right prepared to overlook his “Sins”  so they can get their President.

They will be insulated from the effects, untouchable. We need to make sure that they can and will be touched after all of this.

The schadenfreude is strong with this one.

Your enjoyment of their misery won’t last long when their misery becomes your misery because you haven’t got cheap food.

We might not all be in this together, but most of us are – you*, me and the farmers.  A lack of understanding of this issue has caused the whole mess in the first place.

* unless you are in fact super rich

Peston, kussenberg, newton-dunn, Harry Cole, NinIa schick , faisal islam, ian dunt, Jim cornelius all worth following on Twitter

@Kimbers – not to pick bones but Peston is a bugger for ‘a no confidence vote’ is about to be triggered.

I try and read all news. My take is journalism has been pretty poor on the subject. Too much agenda, too much VI etc, and worst of all too much hysteria.

Will check out the other tidbits from your post.

yeah you need to check through a lot of jourmos to get a good overview

The FT remains ever optimistic that a deal is about to be struck, I think they just conclude that economic & financial self-harm trumps ideology, I think they are wrong

would just add @jasonjhunter & @Sime0nStylites if you want to understand the arcane world of international trade law (theres quite a few MPs who obviously have no freaking clue about it)

I have been shot down on this thread before (as i am apparently well padded?) But i really dont believe there is any other way than letting it fall and allowing the full misery to impact all (including me) otherwise what ever half arsed deal we get it will always be “sold down the river” and yes i understand the misery of a hard Brexit will still be blamed on the EU but you can only shout at them for so long as we are no longer part of the club.

It will take generations to sort this out and i believe as a country we may never recover (a bit dramatic but there have been plenty of historical mini empires that have disappeared up their own arse)

The damage is done in my view and what we see between now and March and 2021 is just the bitter, unpleasent and lingering demise of this country.

I have business acquaintances in France and Germany and in general they have simply “disconnected” from the UK as a partner and market. They dont trust our judgement and that is very very serious in business.

I think Europe will thrive without us.

Personally I am completely at a loss as to just how stupid people are.  I hope Boris JRM Davis Fox etc take them back to the ****ing stoneage. I am not hard left politically but by christ you have to wonder where this is going and what the hell you vote for.

Your enjoyment of their misery won’t last long when their misery becomes your misery because you haven’t got cheap food.

FTFY.

I try and read all news. My take is journalism has been pretty poor on the subject. Too much agenda, too much VI etc, and worst of all too much hysteria.

For people like the BBC balance has always been the issue, they don’t seem to be able to call the outright BS as it’s balancing the other side.

In terms of Hysteria I’d agree the Leave press has been full of it. In the main media the implications have been heavily downplayed so far.

My take is journalism has been pretty poor on the subject.

I think journalism is pretty iffy on most topics these days.

This country is struggling, we don’t have a well educated population. The demise of skilled people in well organised trade unions with supporting education has all but gone.

Like it or not the people who fought Thatcher on a daily basis are dead or knackered. I am 55 and the last of them, beyond me is “working class Tories” Alf Garnett if you like. Behind me is poorly educated, unorganised working poor who dont have a ****ing clue, behind them are my kids, well educated, free movement driven, they also give a shit and feel like they have been f***ed by old people.

We have to accept that about half of this country is not fit to make economic or political decisions ..

Unpleasant, unfortunate, unacceptale but ****ing true.

I am sorry folks but Its a plain truth.

This for me had been hard to accept, my faith in the working class was based upon a culture from 40 years ago. I was miles away from the current working class folks view.  I got it wrong but thst does not make them right.

This country is struggling, we don’t have a well educated population. The demise of skilled people in well organised trade unions with supporting education has all but gone.

whether its demise of trade unions or not I dont know but this is spot on, our fractured education system feeds our widening skills deficit leaving us dependent on immigration, as well as robbing so many of opportunity & driving resentment further.

sort of relevant example…

lunch today with 3 doctors, all bemoaning the crisis in the NHS, its not winter yet & its not left last winters crisis, nursing shortage is at epic levels, bursaries gone so with record number of unfilled posts, its now even worse, those that do join have to head straight onto specialisms to earn better money to pay off the debts, but leave wards empty.

Numbers of EU nurses have collapsed as their status after March is currently unknown, the upshot is that last weekend the hospitals serving >1.5million people in north london had only enough staff for 1 functional operating theatre, when a 2nd emergency case came in they had to close down Ealing A&E & taxi the nurses to Northwick park to carry out the operation. For this ealing trust was fined >£100,000 for missing ts A&E targets.

It’s just utter frickkng madness.

And we’ve not oficcialy left yet.

If we do leave with no deal and the pound tanks, it will be a lot worse. A LOT WORSE.

Whilst i still have concerns about the impact that the ‘exit from Brexit’ movement would have on the ‘body politic’ were it to be ‘just’ forgotten about – and i do think we need to be serious about the ramifications of ignoring the result, however flawed you may think it to be – i am also incredibly concerned about the idea of just going through with it regardless because, you know, **** ’em.

At the risk of sounding all won’t-somebody-think-of-the-children, we need a way out of this.

The ‘extending the Transition Period until all Leave voters have died’ option is a bit risky, but has got to be worth a shot hasn’t it?

I mean, how is…

this ealing trust was fined >£100,000 for missing ts A&E targets.

Going to help anyone? That’s a hundred k out of the tax payers purse.

It’s a 100k back into the “tax payers purse”.

But you’re right, it doesn’t help anyone to punish trusts for the failed policies of central government.

Back to Brexit… anyone still in contact with people who voted Leave to “do the right thing by the NHS”? May has remembered that they exist… she repeated the lies about a Brexit dividend for the NHS at PMQs this week… a dangerous game not to be honest with these people.

Also, i’m fairly sure the NFU were pro-Remain, but their membership were on the whole not.

Let’s not shoot the messenger.

and i do think we need to be serious about the ramifications of ignoring the result,

It is not a case of ignoring the result.  It is looking at the practicalities and doing what is best which may not be what was voted for but that is what government is for (to look at the finer points and make more reasoned decisions)