Election Campaign

Pretty stupid interpretation there. The obvious point is that the idea that immigrants force down low paid wages is BS. Clearly falsifiable. But the closet Xenophobes love such ideas.

Because it allows this nonsense to become part of the narrative. It should be quashed at source. Why allow one of a few questions be based on xenophobic nonsense?

Immigration has a positive impact on the economy.

Pretty stupid comment this : ” Immigration has not lead to a decline in wages – the main losers have been previous immigrants no one else. Xenophobic gobbledegook.”

teamhurtmore – Member

Pretty stupid interpretation there. The obvious point is that the idea that immigrants force down low paid wages is BS. Clearly falsifiable. But the closet Xenophobes love such ideas.

Perhaps not for you in your profession but how the hell do you know others are not affected? Oh ya … the statisticians say so … 🙄

teamhurtmore – Member
Immigration has a positive impact on the economy.

Tell that to the Italians … 🙄

You simply have to look at the evidence. It’s very clear unless you are a xenophobe.

The available research further shows that any adverse wage effects of immigration are likely to be greatest for resident workers who are themselves migrants. This is because the skills of new migrants are likely to be closer substitutes for the skills of migrants already employed in the UK than for those of UK-born workers. Manacorda, Manning and Wadsworth (2012) analyse data from 1975-2005 and conclude that the main impact of increased immigration is on the wages of migrants already in the UK.

Didn’t realise QT was on tonight as well. Is it an unofficial David Dimbleby night?

Because it allows this nonsense to become part of the narrative. It should be quashed at source. Why allow one of a few questions be based on xenophobic nonsense?

Can’t believe I actually agree with you on something. I said my night in pub was more productive, but most of it was spent arguing with an idiot work colleague who thinks voting for UKIP will force the labour party to move to the left.

And is it just me or does Grant Shapps/MIchael Green look like one of the lizards out of ‘V’?

teamhurtmore – Member

You simply have to look at the evidence. It’s very clear unless you are a xenophobe.

How much is the property price in the UK I hear?

How many immigrants can afford the property price in the UK?

What I hear you say? You only allowed the rich immigrants because they are the ones that can afford the property price here?

Or do you mean all the immigrants should squeeze into one small house because they simply cannot afford to buy houses here. What I hear you say again?

🙄

Sorry, don’t understand a word of that,

Good for Angus Robertson – a non shouty SNP MP and has really got under coopers skin!!!!

Seems I’m not the only one who’s been drinking 🙂

teamhurtmore – Member

Sorry, don’t understand a word of that,

Not all immigrants are rich.

If they are Not rich how can they afford the house or property price in the UK?

Or do you only let rich immigrants in?

If you let in the low-skilled immigrants where are you going to house them?

dazh – Member
Seems I’m not the only one who’s been drinking

I was about to post the same thing. Bubbly and fleurie, no wonder I can’t understand chewkh and his tangetial points!! Dazh, we are in tune again! 😉

teamhurtmore – Member

dazh – Member
Seems I’m not the only one who’s been drinking

I was about to post the same thing. Bubbly and fleurie, no wonder I can’t understand chewkh and his tangetial points!! Dazh, we are in tune again! [/quote]

Of course you are in tune of course you are. 😆

Anyone know why Clegg wasn’t there?

After last months debate arrangement squabbles, it was decided that as a result of Cameron’s refusal to do this one it would be run as a ‘party leaders who are not in government debate’.

I’m not quite sure why that excludes Clegg, but apparently on some technical point it does.

Poor wee Ed.

The best bit was when Millibland landed the sturgeon hook, line and sinker.
He lay in wait until she said she wanted a coalition with labour and he point blank refused! The look on his face was priceless he couldn’t believe his luck! Poor wee Jimmy Krankie got the right hump!
Another clanger from sturgeon was when she slated Farage over his immigration/housing comments then went on to say five minutes later that because of all the eastern Europeans that have moved into Glasgow there isn’t enough housing!

I was actually quite impressed with her passion until those points.

The Plaid and Green leaders are just chancers ‘having a go’ in my opinion, they would be completely oout of their depth in any government situation, I wouldn’t trust them to run a 100 metres!

You are obviously unaware that Miliband ruled out a coalition with the SNP a month ago :

Ed Miliband rules out coalition with the SNP

I can assure you that Nicola Sturgeon is better informed than you appear to be.

The best bit was when Millibland landed the sturgeon hook, line and sinker.
He lay in wait until she said she wanted a coalition with labour and he point blank refused!

Aye, that was really clever, ruling out working with the SNP. The one wee flaw is that means letting the Tories back in but hey, at least he stuck to his principles eh?

Back in the real world, no-one was talking about a Lab/SNP coalition anyway, the proposal is a Labour minority government with SNP supporting it on the Budget and confidence motions. And no-one, not even Ed Miliband, has ruled that out. Because he can’t.

Back in the real world, no-one was talking about a Lab/SNP coalition anyway,

No, really!

The innocence of that interpretation warms the heart. Not too many historians about to ask, “why, where, when etc….”

the proposal is a Labour minority government with SNP supporting it on the Budget and confidence motions.

It’s all sounds so simple.

And no-one, not even Ed Miliband, has ruled that out. Because he can’t.

The pull of power trumps everything as Cleggy discovered.

Now if the dangerous ones put Angus Robertson out a bit more, the whole thing could become marginally tolerable. Obvious BS aside at least he avoids the head bobbing and shaking and staged vitriol etc.

The Plaid and Green leaders are just chancers ‘having a go’ in my opinion, they would be completely oout of their depth in any government situation, I wouldn’t trust them to run a 100 metres!

Could you explain what you mean here I dont get it.

cinnamon_girl – Member

Anyone know why Clegg wasn’t there?

sucking off cameron ?…….

bencooper – Member
He lay in wait until she said she wanted a coalition with labour and he point blank refused!
Aye, that was really clever, ruling out working with the SNP. The one wee flaw is that means letting the Tories back in but hey, at least he stuck to his principles eh?

There’s a difference between a coalition and working with the SNP on a vote by vote basis – the latter will happen if Labour get enough seats to be a minority govt or a small majority.

Which was the point I made in my second paragraph 😉

teamhurtmore – Member
You simply have to look at the evidence. It’s very clear unless you are a xenophobe.

The available research further shows that any adverse wage effects of immigration are likely to be greatest for resident workers who are themselves migrants. This is because the skills of new migrants are likely to be closer substitutes for the skills of migrants already employed in the UK than for those of UK-born workers. Manacorda, Manning and Wadsworth (2012) analyse data from 1975-2005 and conclude that the main impact of increased immigration is on the wages of migrants already in the UK.

Firstly your evidence says ‘likely to be greatest’ and ‘main impact’ which is hardly definitive.

Secondly and my main problem with it is that it is NOT OK that immigration keeps the wages low of migrants already here! Only a xenophobe would think it is OK.

The funniest thing from the Debate was Ed saying “Debate me, debate me David, just me and you”

The little ray of sunshine that is IDS has just ruled out not just a Tory coalition with any other parties, but also any ad hoc, vote by vote arrangements.

This whole election campaign is now an utter farce. They’re all manoeuvring for the inevitable hung parliament, while Implausibly claiming theyre not. And the manifestos aren’t manifestos at all. They’re just a starting point for negotiations.

Alex Salmond, where is he ? The SNP aren’t daft they know how poisonous he is to voters outside Scotland so he’s being kept away from the national coverage only to be rolled out as leader of the SNP at Westminster.

@binners, I think the Tories will look at another LibDem coalition or will try and govern with a minority government counting that some LibDems/DUP/UKIP etc will vote with them on certain issues but without a formal coalition. I am also firmly of the view that these opinion pools are largely worthless, they are so easily manipulated. A surprise majority is not out of the question.

CTK – feel free to go an read the research. What you will find is that immigration actually has very little impact on wages at all (unless you are a xenophobe) and if anything it increases them – a little thing called supply and demand for labour. Its juts that this doesn’t suit the blame the immigrant narrative that UKIP and others depend on. But it is not clear cut and there are losers – including previous immigrants. Whether that is right or wrong is a different debate altogether…

The available research further shows that any adverse wage effects of immigration are likely to be greatest for resident workers who are themselves migrants. This is because the skills of new migrants are likely to be closer substitutes for the skills of migrants already employed in the UK than for those of UK-born workers. Manacorda, Manning and Wadsworth (2012) analyse data from 1975-2005 and conclude that the main impact of increased immigration is on the wages of migrants already in the UK.

Quote from TMH and my view exactly. Those at greatest risk from immigrant labour are the prior generation of immigrants as its their jobs which are undercut. This is well understood.

Alex Salmond, where is he ? The SNP aren’t daft they know how poisonous he is to voters outside Scotland so he’s being kept away from the national coverage only to be rolled out as leader of the SNP at Westminster.

Well at the moment he isn’t anything other than a MP candidate, he’s not leader of anything. Though, if he does get elected and heads to Westminster with dozens of other SNP MPs, it’ll be very entertaining to watch.

I think if Alex Wanders in to Westminster as kingmaker in a coalition, then a massively dangerous critical mass of self-regarding, preening smugness will be reached, that could endanger the future of humanity itself!

I’m sick to death of hearing about this bloody election – especially as I can’t influence the results in any way and yet the outcome is bound to have some (probably negative) effect on me.

Alex Salmond has already said that Angus Robertson will remain the SNP leader in Westminster.

But it is not clear cut and there are losers – including previous immigrants. Whether that is right or wrong is a different debate altogether…

There is no debate about this point- it is wrong- only a xenophobe would think otherwise 😀

So basically the rich get richer and the poor get poorer on the back of migrant labour.

I think the Tories will look at another LibDem coalition or will try and govern with a minority government counting that some LibDems/DUP/UKIP etc

No doubt they will but it’ll be pointless if the numbers don’t add up. Interesting, if bleedingly obvious analysis in grauniad this morning. Basically the tories are screwed as the Libdems look like losing so many seats to labour and the SNP that the tories have no hope of taking back as many seats off labour to make up the shortfall. It’ll be quite ironic if the tories selfish and narrowminded sidelining of their coalition partners results in their own demise.

CTK – again, go and read the research, it will help with the confusion. But little clue, the evidence is that immigration has very little impact on wages – its a convenient red herring. You can interpret that as you see fit.

The Plaid and Green leaders are just chancers ‘having a go’ in my opinion, they would be completely oout of their depth in any government situation, I wouldn’t trust them to run a 100 metres!
Could you explain what you mean here I dont get it.

They are a couple of ‘have a go’ politicians who have somehow found themselves leaders of their parties.
Neither of them have the talent not intelligence to be allowed anywhere near number 10.
(In my opinion for what it’s worth).

Neither of them have the talent not intelligence to be allowed anywhere near number 10.

Talent and intelligence are irrelevant. It’s not like there’s an exam they have to take. Maybe there should be but that’s a different debate. The only thing they need are votes. That’s it I’m afraid.

Neither of them have the talent not intelligence to be allowed anywhere near number 10.

I think the leader of Plaid Cymru has the intelligence to work out that since her party doesn’t stand candidates outside Wales she will never take up residence in Number 10.

I just got some election literature through from our local UKIP candidate. In the spirit of democracy I read it. It’s fair to say that intelligence wasn’t the first word that sprang to mind.

The general tone was the same as that I see from a group of old regulars in my local, who can often be overheard using phrases like ‘it’s them bloody ****’s’. He even looks like Al Murray in full pub landlord guise.

He’s kindly supplied me with a poster I can put in my window, to proudly proclaim ‘I’m backing UKIP’

Very thoughtful!

teamhurtmore – Member

CTK – again, go and read the research, it will help with the confusion.

I’ve read the research which you choose to quote from and it makes the point that immigration can result in making rich people richer and poor people poorer. Perhaps you should read it again to help with your “confusion”? There’s a clue in “a little thing called supply and demand for labour”.