Edinburgh Cyclist and Jaguar

If the cyclist had been driving a car, he would never had bullied his way in front of the Jag in the first place.

If the cyclist had been driving a car, there wouldn’t be any potential issues with people trying squeeze past to beat the traffic lights, or for people trying to overtake him as he turns right.

himupstairs – Member

cool, just checking.
wouldn’t want to be starting a helmet debate on here after all..!

Are you sure?
sbob is pro helmet, pro choice, and chooses not to wear one.
I don’t need one as I don’t own a go-pro, and subsequently don’t get knocked off my bike.

😈

Ahh right, because all drivers are patient and polite? of course!

If the cyclist had been driving a car, there wouldn’t be any potential issues with people trying squeeze past to beat the traffic lights, or for people trying to overtake him as he turns right.
[/quote]If the cyclist had been driving a car he’d have joined the queue of traffic behind the blue car at the very first junction and been nowhere near the Jaguar.

I don’t know if it’s relative to the discussion, but I’d like to take this opportunity to raise awareness of the humiliating psychological effects of erectile dysfunction…

sbob, i share your views re helmets. nae quibbles there.

i do find the gopro thing funny – especially as the cyclist in the vid is clearly hoping to catch someone fiddling with their phone whilst sitting in traffic.
then gets a little more than he hoped for!

I don’t know if it’s relative to the discussion, but I’d like to take this opportunity to raise awareness of the humiliating psychological effects of erectile dysfunction…

😀

Er, no. I considered that he quite clearly had given way. Because he hadn’t done anything “likely to endanger the driver of or any passenger in a vehicle on the major road or to cause the driver of such a vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident” http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regulation/25/made Of course if anything had been moving on the road, or there hadn’t been plenty of space to move into, then clearly that might have been an issue, but it wasn’t and there was.

Hence I was ignoring your reference to that.

Why, what did you think “give way” meant? How do you think you “give way” to stationary traffic?

raise awareness

yunki – Member

I don’t know if it’s relative to the discussion, but I’d like to take this opportunity to raise awareness of the humiliating psychological effects of erectile dysfunction..

I drive a twenty year old Nissan Micra with flower stickers on it. That pretty much guarantees my status as a sexual tyrannosaurus.

And it’s an auto.

I can feel your wives trembling from here.

Can I borrow yours?

Because it seems far more likely to me that the cyclist is simply ignoring the car and it just happens that the convenient space is in front of it, than deliberately putting himself in front of it to piss the driver off. Give me one piece of evidence to suggest otherwise…

I can feel your wivesthighs trembling from here.

FTFY 😉

Hence I was ignoring your reference to that.

You were ignoring my reference to it because it doesn’t suit your selfish style of road use.

Of course if anything had been moving on the road, or there hadn’t been plenty of space to move into, then clearly that might have been an issue, but it wasn’t and there was.

Except there wasn’t plenty of space to move into, he had to force his way in front of the Jag.

How do you think you give way to stationary traffic?

Are you saying you would have pulled out if you were in a car?
Does traffic cease to occupy space at zero velocity?

That’s mental.

Actually on second thoughts I don’t want to borrow your crystal ball. I was ignoring it because it clearly didn’t apply – are you disputing the law I’ve given you a link to?

Except there wasn’t plenty of space to move into, he had to force his way in front of the Jag.

er, ‘At no point, despite me using the term “give way” do you even for one moment consider that the cyclist should, or even could have given way to the traffic already established on the road he intends to enter.’, ‘See the red car at 5 seconds as the cyclist approaches the give way lines?’ – we were talking about giving way at the give way lines weren’t we? Or is there some other point you wanted him to pull behind the red car?

Are you saying you would have pulled out if you were in a car?
Does traffic cease to occupy space at zero velocity?
That’s mental.

Well quite clearly not, because there wouldn’t have been space to pull into. With a bike there is. The other traffic is irrelevant because there is still plenty of space even with it there. If you think he didn’t obey the “give way”, maybe you could give a link to the law you think he’s broken if you don’t like the law I found regarding give way lines.

Hmm. That would be a great colour for a bike frame.

Can I borrow yours?

I don’t have one.
That’s why I don’t base my arguments on pretending I do.

That would be mental.

Because it seems far more likely to me that the cyclist is simply ignoring the car and it just happens that the convenient space is in front of it, than deliberately putting himself in front of it to piss the driver off. Give me one piece of evidence to suggest otherwise

Comprehension failure.
I’m not saying the cyclist got in front of the Jag at that point to antagonize the driver, without your crystal ball we don’t know.
We do know that the Jag driver is already a bit pissed off due to being cut up by the cyclist.
That is why it would be sensible to stay behind the car, where you have more control.
It is a safer position to adopt.

This is a pointless discussion though as you have already nailed your colours to the mast and it is obvious that safety isi not your priority.

You wrote “choosing to position himself” – apologies if you didn’t express yourself clearly, and didn’t mean that being directly in front of the Jag was anything other than an accident.

Or are you going to suggest there’s also a third option here apart from him deliberately putting himself in front of that car and it being a coincidence?

This is a pointless discussion though as you have already nailed your colours to the mast and it is obvious that safety isi not your priority.

Exactly what have I written which gives you that idea? Or are you employing your non-existent crystal ball again?

Comprehension failure.
I’m not saying the cyclist got in front of the Jag at that point to antagonize the driver, without your crystal ball we don’t know.
We do know that the Jag driver is already a bit pissed off due to being cut up by the cyclist.
That is why it would be sensible to stay behind the car, where you have more control.
It is a safer position to adopt.

Maybe, but the traffic also moved as the cyclist passed the Jag, and the cyclist kept pace – it’s where I would sit at that particular moment in time. Difference is I probably wouldn’t have bothered reprimanding the Jag driver.

As for who’s wrong and who’s right – in my mind the Jag driver is an utter twunt, but starting with a ‘c’.

are you disputing the law I’ve given you a link to?

You are still doing it!
How can you continue to try and use that tactic when I have so clearly pointed it out?

I’m disputing that the cyclist had room to move into. You know this. You quoted me on it.

There is room for me to get my Micra down the left hand side of that queue.
Would you advise me to drive up the left hand side of that queue if I intended to turn right at the end?

I’d genuinely like an answer and an explanation.

😕

Can I check exactly what it is you’re arguing here? Are you suggesting he didn’t give way at the give way lines or something different?

aracer – Member

You wrote “choosing to position himself” – apologies if you didn’t express yourself clearly, and didn’t mean that being directly in front of the Jag was anything other than an accident.

Or are you going to suggest there’s also a third option here apart from him deliberately putting himself in front of that car and it being a coincidence?

Are you simple?
Of course the cyclist chose to position himself in front of the Jag. What we don’t know is whether or not he did this to antagonize the driver.
It’s you that is claiming to have this knowledge, which you don’t, not I.

I don’t think anyone else here is having trouble understanding my posts, it is just you.
You may want to think about that.

Waste of police time? So you don’t think they should do anything to him even if he does have history?

I’m merely saying that there’s bugger all evidence in that video to suggest the driver did much wrong. Without actual witness statements the most likely police response would be to call the cyclist an antagonising wee bawbag. I’ll put money on this guy posting another ‘near miss’ video in the future-if he lives long enough to do so.

aracer – Member

Can I check exactly what it is you’re arguing here?

You seem to be struggling to understand the simple English I have been using in my posts, see GrahamS’ post for what I am suggesting the cyclist should have done, as he is in complete agreement with me.

I’d still like an answer.

Bit late to the party here but IMO both the driver and the cyclist are nobbers.

neilsonwheels – Member

Bit late to the party here but IMO both the driver and the cyclist are nobbers

Far too sensible a position, pick a side and fight to the death.

Well I reckon you’d have to mount the kerb at 0:10, so I’d not advise it in your Micra. Clearly and legally you can filter on a bicycle, and as there almost always isn’t room between cars to pull into when they’re in a stationary queue like that it is standard practice to wait for gaps to open up once traffic starts moving. You don’t do that in a Micra.

Though having made lots of accusations of tactics against me, I note you’re now avoiding the question of whether you still think the cyclist didn’t give way at the first junction as you asserted earlier…

Ahhh the UK and the type of letter of the law bullshit comments in this thread.

It’s an outrage I tell you! No, the cyclist is a cock.

I may regret joining in…

but I’m not very sure there was contact between the Jag and the bike. It looks to me (not there, don’t know, etc) that the Jag was further away from the bike after the fall than would have been the case had there been a bump. Otherwise, he’d have hit the bus too?

Might I also be so bold as to postulate the that Jag driver really was an officer of the law? Despite the ongoing discussion I got the impression of some room between car and bike. That doesn’t explain why the car drove away, unless it was to get off the main road so the driver could walk back to assist. I wonder what the next few minutes of film showed, or indeed the cameras that the bus driver mentioned.

I don’t know the junction, but got the impression that the choice of position by the cyclist could have been better – he said at the start that the driver was ignoring him, but chose to join the line of traffic there anyway. As others have said, the whole thing could have been so easily avoided.

My crystal ball/blatant construction says he was riding fixed on a road bike and caught the front mudguard with his foot.

aracer – Member

Though having made lots of accusations of tactics against me, I note you’re now avoiding the question of whether you still think the cyclist didn’t give way at the first junction as you asserted earlier…

I’ve made my position clear, as have you.
You’re condoning actions that did lead to a conflict between driver and cyclist.
This is undeniable.
I’m suggesting a different course of action that may not have led to a conflict between driver and cyclist.

It’s as simple as that.
Choose a definite bad outcome or a possible good one.

I suppose it takes all sorts, and masochism isn’t necessarily a crime.
😆

Which sad sack films their commute to work?

Do thet masturbate at the footage when they get home?

Actually, that’s not a bad idea. How much are these little cameras?

Which sad sack films their commute to work?

Lots of people. It’s growing in popularity, on bikes and also in cars.

The footage is often the essential evidence that lets something happen (e.g. insurance payout, police action)

The wait behind the cars at the first junction idea is, frankly, bobbins. During commute times there is pretty much an unlimited number of cars behind you, if you join the back of the queue by the time you get to turning right you’ll have a car behind you and if the driver is impatient you end up in the same situation as our boy in the video. The locals have already made it clear it’s a shitty junction for cyclists to turn right at, there’s one near me, hold secondary the drivers behind overtake and squeeze you into the kerb on the exit, hold primary and they undertake leading to who knows what on exit and there’s the risk of someone going straight on just wiping you out whatever position you adopt.

So unless you want to spend longer getting to work than by car pick a place to cut in, front is probably best as you aren’t singling any driver out for “pushing infront of” but not always doable if traffic starts moving on your approach (and if the driver at the front is a nutter you still get the rage effect jag guy showed).

Bikes and cars move at different speeds there’s always going to be a cat and mouse effect we just all have to accept bikes will be cutting in and out of traffic as roads widen/narrow and traffic flow increases and decreases, the alternative is no one ever passing each other unless there is more than one lane – see how long drivers put up with never overtaking a cyclist on standard single lane roads, reckon drivers would get bored of that before cyclists got bored of never filtering.

ok….im going to bite…

tpbiker » I dont see any contact there.

Well I guess the camera isn’t actually pointing towards the car at that point

Have seen a few people make this comment – do you really think the cyclist is making up the collision?

POSTED 18 HOURS AGO #[/quote]

You love twisting things for your own argument don’t you aracer. Please point out where I said he made up the collision. I’m implying he may have fallen off without contact because he wasn’t paying attention to what he was doing, which is entirely possible. A number of people have expressed the same view.

But no doubt you’ll come back ridiculing this rational with some reason why this is impossible, followed up with some slightly patronising smilie for good measure.

Is aracer filling some pretty big shoes of a now departed Big Hitter?

The wait behind the cars at the first junction idea is, frankly, bobbins. During commute times there is pretty much an unlimited number of cars behind you, if you join the back of the queue by the time you get to turning right you’ll have a car behind you and if the driver is impatient you end up in the same situation as our boy in the video.

At the start of the video he could have joined that queue between the blue and red car.

The red car is actually hanging back and obeying the Keep Clear at the junction (a rare sight) so that marks them as someone I’d be happy to have behind me.

More importantly that would have allowed the cyclist to join the queue in the primary position and hold the lane through the junction.

Instead he (illegally) filtered up the left hand side of traffic when he knew he wanted to turn right at the lights. That was a dumb move and put him in direct conflict with other road users and forced him to try and get from the secondary to the primary as he crossed a junction with a car on his right.

(None of that excuses the actions of the Jag driver)

I still think this is largely the driver being a dick, however not taking primary when you intend to turn right is daft.

Trying to turn right from the left hand side of a lane and relying on the good will of others isn’t clever.

that marks them as someone I’d be happy to have behind me.

perhaps, or they could have been that curious breed who are patient for other drivers but gets nowty with cyclists – we’ve no idea same as prior to incident we didn’t know about jag driver (car prejudices aside)
Illegally filtered? Presume you mean when/if he went onto the chevrons? (Reviewing bid it could be that in order to avoid entering chevrons he chose to cut in in front of jag)

Actually, that’s not a bad idea. How much are these little cameras?

Very useful during urban summer commuting. Especially on cycle paths through parks.

Just a thought…