Not engine braking as such ,I’m not entirely stupid, I know theres a freehub, it’s just the only way I could describe the feeling that it gives when you get off the gas and it slows down. Just didn’t like it myself, not trying to knock em without giving em a try.

Yeah engine braking was probably a poor choice of words.

but i know what you mean, you can definitely feel the engine stop pulling when you hit the speed limiter eh.

I see all the self righteous haters haven’t got any new material, and there are fewer people who haven’t ridden them for them to shout their bullshit at now.

This is a good thing

Well, I’ve just taken the plunge and bought one, so we’ll see

New Bike day Wednesday- wow – I haven’t bought a complete bike since 1998

I took a Pinnacle Lithium Ion for a test ride today (sort of Chunky hybrid rigid tourer)

Loved it for general transport use.  Not really enough scope for carrying things for my needs sadly, but the Shimano Steps was great. Spent most of the time on the flat at about 28-30kmh so not any assist, but the difference is, when you need to slow down, getting back up to speed is far easier.

Hills felt pretty much like riding on the flat on an “analog” bike, but maybe into a headwind. But there aren’t any proper hills round where I was riding so not really easy to judge. A proper full weekend test will be done soon from Evans Manchester store.

Did a non sweaty 10K at lunchtime round Leeds and then Back to the office

Testing the Trek Supercommuter 8 tomorrow lunchtime to see what double the money gets you (But mainly to see what the Bosch CX is like compared to the Shimano Steps)

Looking like the Yuba Spicy Curry Bosch will be getting ordered some time soon though 👍

What did you buy ninfan?

I’m in the “not for me at the moment” camp. If I need one when/if my boys start riding to keep up then I will but half of the draw to riding for me is the honest graft. I wouldn’t and don’t fault others for riding one for all of the reasons given by geex and others in this thread.

Today’s test ride was on the Trek Supercommuter 8 with Bosch CX.

Different league to the Pinnacle from yesterday, before I rode it I couldn’t really see how it could be worth twice the price and presumed it was just the name and style that was costing. But it really isn’t.

I really liked the Pinnacle but the Trek was fantastic by comparison. Mainly because of the Bosch CX being soooooo much better than the Shimano Steps, but the whole bike felt better, really stable and comfortable, but still nippy round tight back streets. And the power delivery is also way smoother.

Mans I did 17km at lunchtime, with a fair few hills, and went straight back to my desk without a hint of a sweat on.

Convinced me that the Yuba with the same  CX drive is the right bike 👍

It almost seems like the industry ignores working on all of the things that could make a great commuter e-bike (light, fast, portable) and is pushing development in the offroad sector simply because we spend more on toys.

Can’t really make em much lighter*, the heavy bits are the motor and battery.

can’t make em any faster, there’s a speed limiter fitted by law.

re portable, see point one above.

industry makes what their market research tells them we are gonna buy.

*yeah you could drop a couple of kgs off most standard bikes, but they still aren’t actually light.

It almost seems like the industry ignores working on all of the things that could make a great commuter e-bike

To be fair, the bike I rode today is a perfect commuter bike (they have actually made it even better with NuVinci hub on the newer 9 version) don’t really see how they could make it all that much better without using, as yet uninvented technology.

(light, fast, portable)

The supercommuter 8 I rode today isn’t light (on the scales) but it certainly feels light when it’s actually being ridden. And surely that’s the important part. It’s fast accelerating, way faster than the Steps system (and everything is capped at 25km/h anyway) but it’s easy to cruise on the flat at 30km/h without much hardship anyway. So it’s hardly slow.

Not sure about portable, unless you mean folding? There are plenty of folding ebikes around if that’s what you mean. Brompton soon.

and is pushing development in the offroad sector simply because we spend more on toys.

The CX Bosch Motor from the Trek superCommuter is the standard motor in pretty much every Bosch powered mountain bike. I would say they are developing for both sectors at the same time, and it works perfectly well for both too.

Convinced me that the Yuba with the same CX drive is the right bike 👍

Any idea what the average ballpark assisted range is on the Spicy Curry?  I know it’s somewhat of a ‘how long is string’ Q!

Reminds me of the time I drove up the Col du Izoard: On the pass summit I got lip from a roadie who’d just cycled up. He seemed unwilling to accept that we’d both been doing the same thing, going uphill, enjoying the view. I ask you: he’d just started at the bottom of the hill whereas I’d driven all the way from Dijon…what a dick!

Well I’ve moved a step closer to joining the cheating bastards camp.😄

I’m taking a Kenevo out on test in a couple of days time.

lightness doesn’t really matter on an ebike tbh.

technically you can ride the speed pedalecs (ones that go up to 45kph/30/mph) in the uk, but you basically need to get it type approved as a moped, tax, insured, have brake acivated likes, mirror, motorbike license plate have a moped license and you need to wear a motorcycle helmet.

So the law as it currently stands isn’t particularly speed pedelec friendly at the moment. I think it’ll probably develop over time tbh. but it’ll be a slow process.

should also mention that when the speed goes up, battery consumption goes up also, it’s an exponential curve, so speed wise they’ll always be limited, unless you put a silly about of batteries in there, which is were most of the weight is.

@chickenman I once got a shuttle in a van to the top of the Col Du Tourmalet to ride the descent. It was ace all 11 miles of it!

@seosamh77 Weight actually makes a massive differenct to the handling of an Emtb. not if you ride it seated, rely too much on the power or just plow into and over things  granted. I’m talking about riding them properly.

If I understand you correctly I don’t really agree with what you’re saying about the speed using the battery exponentially either. it’s more about what level of assistance you use, your weight and gradient IMO.
Considering it’s not all that difficult for a reasonably strong rider to pedal them above the 15mph assistance limit on the flat a de-restricted emtb wouldn’t need to give you a whole lot of assistance even in eco to allow that riderto  comfortably pedal along the flat at normal quick roadbike speeds, Try continueing to do that up any sort of gradient and that’s where you’ll see the battery depleted quickest.
*wind resistance obviously comes into it but I’m assuming anyone doing this woyldn’t just sit bolt upright like a sail into the wind

@stu

technically you can ride the speed pedalecs (ones that go up to 45kph/30/mph) in the uk, but you basically need to get it type approved as a moped, tax, insured, have brake acivated likes, mirror, motorbike license plate have a moped license and you need to wear a motorcycle helmet

They really don’t need all of this heavy shite.

Don’t really see why they have to have a drivetrain either.

Geex your comments make sense to me re: hills.

on the flat riding along at the speed limiter is pretty economical, i can go 15 miles on the limiter, and only use 1 bar.

the same distance off road, or on hilly terrain will empty the battery.

I am a fat knacker though.

Re speed pedelecs,

nah, I wouldn’t bother.

ordinary bicycle parts are fine at the speed limiter, but when you start to go much faster they’re not up to it.

Tyres especially.

i’ve had my ebike chipped, so i can turn the limiter off, but honestly I wouldn’t bother doing it again, it doesn’t actually improve the bike, there’s practically nowhere it can be used legally, and it has a moderate effect on battery life (ie, it’s shorter)

i would say, if it was up to me, that 18mph would be an optimum speed.

geex yeah there’s a whole load of factors that contribute to it, hills being no1. But my weight comment was specifically in relation to speed pedelacs for communting, I don’t think there’s really too much need for them to be light weight, particularly for a bike that’s going to be planted to the ground, cycling on fairly tame terrain on slick like tyres, I’d say range is more preferable. But in relation to mtbs, I suspect you don’t want a light weight bike to ride “properly”. You’ll be waiting along while for them to be coming down in weight in that respect I think, unless you are just into doing 10 mile loops and can live with a smaller battery.

Regarding speed on the battery, if you look up the efficiency charts on some of them, there seems to be an optimum level somewhere around the 20ish mph mark and slight above speed wise, where power consumption is reasonable, after you go above 25mph in particular battery usage ramps up alot.

i would say, if it was up to me, that 18mph would be an optimum speed.

tehnically 17mph is the limit. 15.5mph + 10%. 😉

oliverd1981

They really don’t need all of this heavy shite.

Don’t really see why they have to have a drivetrain either.

build your own, get the bike you want, fire on a lightwight motor, add the minimum amount of battery you need. bingo, you’ll have as light a commuter as any manufacturer will build.

btw I’m curious how you propel it forward without drivetrain?

then again mibbe not, road bikes are starting to appear

http://ebiketips.road.cc/content/reviews/electric-road-bikes/bianchi-impulso-e-road-1665

16.8kgs is no bad.

here’s a 12kg one!

http://ebiketips.road.cc/content/news/the-lightest-e-road-bike-yet-wiliers-cento1-hybrid-launches-1667

16.8kgs is no bad.

7.6kg eMTB?

From: https://www.electricbike.com/lightest-bike/

Ah. Ok. Sorry. dodn’t realise you meant commuter bikes that can assist up to more than 15mph.

Malvern Rider

16.8kgs is no bad.

7.6kg eMTB?

240wh battery is a bit grim!

seosamh77

Unless you are just into doing 10 mile loops and can live with a smaller battery.

I’m also pretty certain I snap that in 2 in a few weeks! 😆 I’d also suggest we are talkign the consumer market here!

240wh battery is a bit grim

I think it was just to show what is possible.  The bade bike is a Scott Scale.  Nonetheless, he fitted a larger battery:

When he was choosing what battery pack to buy from vendors in Asia, he decided to build a custom pack that he would solder together himself from Lithium-Ion cells. When he chooses to ride with his larger battery pack that provides 800 watt-hours, the total weight of the bike increases from 7.66 kg up to 9.90 kg (21.8 lbs). With the impressive marathoner adding some athletic pedaling, the larger battery allows day tours of a distance up to 180-kilometers (120 miles), and climbing over 4000-meters (13,000 feet) in elevation. Says Schiltknecht, “In 2010, I even managed a one-day tour in Valais through the Diablerets [mountains]”.

To my mind here’s lots of ways to be looking at both mountain biking and ebiking.  Seems a shame to just getting closer and closer to (essentially) MX bikes with pedals with no truly lightweight options.  Hats off to the man?  That was ages ago too.

7.6kg eMTB?

While it shows you can go light it is hardly an eMTB is it.  It is more of a hybrid commuter thing.

Basic maths really, take the lightest bike you can and just add a motor then you just have the bike plus whatever the motor and battery weigh…

While it shows you can go light it is hardly an eMTB is it

It’s Scott Scale 899 XC MTB

https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mountain-bikes/product/review-scott-scale-899-11-39793/

(albeit with rigid forks and an electric motor).  Even with (1.2KG) DT air forks (100mm) replaced – it would still be considerably lighter than the ’16kg’ electric road bike to which I was comparing, which was my point that sort of  got lost.  Maybe ‘MTB’ has become a very narrow definition of late, yet an £8k XC race bike from 2011 is still an MTB, just a very ancient, lightweight one!  I suppose just like a CX bike is not designed as a ‘commuter’, neither is an XC bike?  But you could commute on either, as well as race on them.  Big air, not so much 😉

I’d think the longevity of the motor and the battery might need tested too.

Interesting enough what the auld boy has done though.