I very much see the benefits of them for commuting and also I am a big supporter for those whom can access the outdoor in a way they couldn’t otherwise because of illness, injury or age.  To be honest for the latter group I don’t have a huge issue with a throttle controlled bike…

Personally, I would like to assistance off-road really taper off lower than 14.5mph.  This is driven by having recently seen a few crap and dangerous behaviours from inexperienced people riding e-bikes, where on more than one occasion they have just barged through other people riding non-assisted bikes riding uphill or on the flat just after an uphill.  For this education may help, but in reality who needs to cycle at 14.5mph up a steep off-road hill?  I’m all for levelling a playing field for those less fit – but do we really need it to swing so far the other way…?  I think not.

Other than that a torque-limiter might help as well, as I have seen another couple of occasions where ‘enthusiastic’ riders on e-bikes have torn the edge of a step up on our regular trails.</span>

Exercise or workout? Who gives a F.

Its about getting where you want to go less sweaty & tired & getting up the hill quicker to do more descents.

Despite a fairly recent diagnosis of heart disease, I don’t get this.  Even though it took me twice as long to get around the MBR loop this week than it did 4 years ago, I still like to ‘earn’ the descents.  For me, the climbs are still part of the challenge…

missing the point of a bicycle.

I hadn’t realised they had one clearly defined “point”

Can you let me know what it is, because I’ve think I may have been riding most of them wrong for the last 42 years if there is only one reason to ride them. 🙄

Personally, I would like to assistance off-road really taper off lower than 14.5mph.  This is driven by having recently seen a few crap and dangerous behaviours from inexperienced people riding e-bikes, where on more than one occasion they have just barged through other people riding non-assisted bikes riding uphill or on the flat just after an uphill.  For this education may help, but in reality who needs to cycle at 14.5mph up a steep off-road hill?  I’m all for levelling a playing field for those less fit – but do we really need it to swing so far the other way…?  I think not.

Ahh but that’s just selfish nobs on bikes which just happen to have motors, but I think you have a point with the off road hill climbing and it could be mapped to a more realistic model.

If they didn’t have motors they wouldn’t be there on them…

@malvern rider – You seem to be focussing on the ‘assist’ word rather than the ‘motor’ word.

Like I said, I have no problem with them, but they’re bikes with motors, therefore motorbikes.

This whole argument comes from people wanting to retain the same feeling of healthy virtuousness they get from leg-powered mountain biking when on an ebike.  But the fact is, in 99.9÷ of cases they have lesser health benefits than cycles (no matter what fictitious scenarios people concoct to say otherwise – ‘look, if we ride them like this we get just as knackered’, but never actually do that, or ‘if it’s a choice between not biking and e-biking they’re way better’ (well, of course ffs!)).

They’re loads of fun precicely *because* you don’t have to work as hard.  Your heart doesn’t max the hell out on the steep climbs whilst sweat pours into your eyes, and anyone who says that it does isn’t being entirely honest.

But it doesn’t matter. If you enjoy them, enjoy them.  But don’t try to claim that it’s not cheating (for anyone but the disabled it is), that they’re as healthy (by definition the motor makes it easier), and that they’re not motorbikes, when they are, just not in the traditional sense.

but in reality who needs to cycle at 14.5mph up a steep off-road hill?

But can you actually ride up a steep off road hill at 14.5mph on one? I doubt it. Remember they are only pedal assist. In turbo mode the best systems will put out 300% of the rider’s power. The best systems hit 550W maximum power output at their optimum cadence- it falls away sharply either side. So a rider putting in 185W at just the right cadence for the motor with a bike in turbo mode will be hitting about 730Watts max with the best systems and circa 600W on most. That is not enough to get you moving at 14.5mph up a steep hill. Also, remember that this is pedal assist – so systems reduce the motor contribution close to the top speed and by 14.5mph the drive is 100% human input. Anyone riding a heavy Ebike at 14.5mph up a steep hill needs to get in touch with British Cycling to get on their Olympic track programme.

Not saying the are not stupid people riding them inconsiderately. Up a properly steep hill you might be only going 3mph under your own steam so an Ebike travelling at 6mph will feel like it is blowing past you like you are standing still (equivalent of a car passing you at 140mph when you are doing the speed limit on the motorway). In a way it’s a bit like walkers and riders sharing a bridleway – very much up to the faster moving person to be considerate around the slower moving and not to feel entitled that everyone should stepping aside for them, however as the rider in that situation you would hope the walker would step aside when they can.

Ride whatever the hell you want, as long as it brings a smile to your face who cares?

Pretty much sums it up for me

Good point Convert.

you might be only going 3mph under your own steam so an Ebike travelling at 6mph will feel like it is blowing past you like you are standing still (equivalent of a car passing you at 140mph when you are doing the speed limit on the motorway).

Awesome, but sadly it’d feel like being overtaken at 73mph.

#quickmaths

6-700 watts is an enormous amount of power. Holding 185w as a rider is really easy. Barely raising my heart rate for me. 6-700 watts is a flat out sprint/max effort for 30 seconds. A bike tire will tear the hell out of a climb if that kind of power is being applied regularly.

Is that really the kind of power they can produce? I presumed you’d get about 300w overall from an unfit rider which is what a decent xc rider can produce on their own for sustained periods.

If sprinted up a hill at 600w I’d expect a lot of wheelspin and scrabble. The thought of an increasing number of people regularly doing this on heavy bikes and chunky tires is pretty alarming.

I’d ban them from off road personally. Fantastic vehicle for road journeys sure but our woodlands are in a precarious state as it is without adding to the erosion. Don’t forget all that mass coming back down the hill will tear up the descents too, especially if the rider likes to skid.

You could always licence them to those who could prove they had a vaiid reason for needing them.

I’d ban them from off road personally. Fantastic vehicle for road journeys sure but our woodlands are in a precarious state as it is without adding to the erosion. Don’t forget all that mass coming back down the hill will tear up the descents too, especially if the rider likes to skid.

As someone riding one due to disability that would make me mighty sad. Me plus bike is also probably lighter than quite a few on here… I’m not sure about power output but I don’t tend to do much scrabbling up climbs, less than I did on a normal bike when my legs worked better.

If sprinted up a hill at 600w I’d expect a lot of wheelspin and scrabble. The thought of an increasing number of people regularly doing this on heavy bikes and chunky tires is pretty alarming.

Part of that reason is because if you were putting out 700Watts you would be as jerky as hell and probably out of the saddle. Heavy as hell with the rider seated (I would imagine) means a lot more traction and a lot less scrabbling. Still not enough juice for sustaining 14.5mph up a steep hill mind. I understand one of the biggest benefits is the torque not the power – being able to half pedal over obstacles where you don’t have ground clearance to do full rotations and hop over stuff.

I too am mixed about them off road – huge advocate of them on road but see less of an argument for their need off road.

I’m 100% fine with them.

Trail erosion, please, come on, let’s keep some perspective. It’s just not a major issue, no more so than half a dozen normal bikes. I’d bet more trail damage is done by riders on normal bikes after rainfall than e bikes on normal rides.

How about fat bikes, do we van them because they’re heavy and leave a wider path with fat tyres.

As long as they’re not chipped, I think they’re a brilliant idea.

Yeah but weeksy, what if the majority of riders were on them? It’s got to have more of an impact.

Can I just say for all those who a riding them because of a medical condition, I support you wholeheartedly. If their use off road was limited to people who genuinely needed them then I’m sure we’d all be united in our support.

It’s the slide toward mass participation some of us worry about. I came across quite a few last weekend and they are simply something different to a bicycle. The riders were bombing along whilst seated, weaving through other cyclists. It looked so motorised. Horrible whine coming from the motor too. Not exactly ‘back to nature’.

If it annoys me as a cyclist then god knows the hatred we’ll all inevitably get from the walkers.

malvern rider – You seem to be focussing on the ‘assist’ word rather than the ‘motor’ word.

Well yes, that’s what differentiates between a ‘motorbike’ and a motor-assisted bicycle.

You say potater, I say tomater.

The rest of your argument didn’t refute anything I’ve said so far.

If their use off road was limited to people who genuinely needed them

Nobody genuinely needs one as it is not mandatory to be able to ride a bike.  I find the ‘its okay if you are disabled’ a bit of a patronising point.

I don’t have a eHorse in the race (currently a singlespeed masochist offroad and a 3 spd cargo bike onroad), but can someone more sciencey/informed than I show where the argument/data/conclusion falls down in the OP’s linked article?

Also this one:

(First thing that comes to mind is that the route seems flat)

I’m currently at my sister’s oop north and finished servicing her Cube e-bike this morning, brakes and gears. It’s a fairly well specced hardtail pedelec. Her husband bought it to stay active after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and, now he’s dead, she (non-driver, dodgy hips) uses it to get about.

Out of curiosity I just took it for a spin, pointing it up a hill and engaging turbo mode. Went straight up at 15mph. I was turning the pedals but that was all. I certainly wasn’t expending any energy or getting a workout. These things aren’t bicycles, they’re motorbikes.

run that thing on turbo everywhere and you won’t get very far.

I think it’s good that they piss some people off! 😆 Learn to live and let live people!

Went straight up at 15mph. I was turning the pedals but that was all. I certainly wasn’t expending any energy or getting a workout.

turning the pedals but that was all…

…any energy

Are your being literal or exaggerating for effect? Unless the bike was chipped the very minimum energy you were contributing was 25%. If you were sustaining 15mph, that would have been all you. I have no idea what you call a hill or your fitness level so it could be the task was slight and you are awsums but ANY energy is just not physically possible.

Conversely, the assist downhill stops at 15mph, and all you’re left with is a sluggish, heavy bike spinning out on a 1×11 drivetrain with a tiny, twiddly chainring.

Bicycles for people who don’t really like riding bikes?

I’m 51 but I’m fitter than most people half my age precisely because I’ve been riding bikes up hills for the last 28 years or so. Which IS the point, because that wouldn’t be the case if I’d been riding around on an e-bike. It wasn’t ‘all me’ at all, that’s the point of an e-bike, it takes away the effort (and the resulting fitness gain). I just sat there at the maximum it’d do, and it was effectively effortless.

kinda the point of turbo, do it on eco next time. (which if you spent anytime on them you’ll realise you need to use most of the time)

ultimately they are different from normal bikes they will do more. Get used to them, they ain’t doing anything but going to get more popular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYpfXrGyjkE

Are your being literal or exaggerating for effect? Unless the bike was chipped the very minimum energy you were contributing was 25%. If you were sustaining 15mph, that would have been all you. I have no idea what you call a hill or your fitness level so it could be the task was slight and you are awsums but ANY energy is just not physically

Well some friends took one and couple of reasonable roady climbers and a not so fit  ebiker up a hill in bath , he  blew them out the water. No way was the ebike power output 250w + output of rider going up the hills.

I think they’re great – whether it’s to get more smiles per ride, cut out pointless climbing suffering (plenty of riders aren’t afflicted with the need to struggle which seems par for the course with many “cyclists”), focus on the bits they care about, keep up with faster/younger mates or just make every ride count in an increasingly hectic and time poor world. Or maybe they do have an ailment. WGAF – if people are outside enjoying themselves, that is ALL that matters.

Part of me wants to get one (having tried a few at various events just for fun) purely so I can trigger the shit out of purist types who think suffering on climbs is a badge of honour. I’ll be the one wheelying uphill in turbo laughing like a madman.

Let’s remember, this is all grown adults dicking round in the woods on bikes. Try not to take it too seriously, it’s just bikes.

Well some friends took one and couple of reasonable roady climbers and a not so fit  ebiker up a hill in bath , he  blew them out the water. No way was the ebike power output 250w + output of rider going up the hills.

I’m sensing maths is not a great forum strength. What in what you have written is relevant to what you quoted of mine?

A good point was made above though – if you want to travel any reasonable distance on an ebike you need to mainly use the lower modes.

”Well some friends took one and couple of reasonable roady climbers and a not so fit  ebiker up a hill in bath , he  blew them out the water.“

im sceptical of the claim that they were reasonable tbh, i used to be reasonably fit, and i now ride an ebike, i doubt an ebike would keep up with someone who is reasonably fit.

No way could i, on my ebike, keep up with what I could do in my 20s/30s.

not even close, in terms of speed or distance.

so your friends are exaggerating for effect, or the roadies they used weren’t that fit.

The main exercise benefit of an ebike is they encourage people to actually go out, compared to not riding a normal bike.

I do use mine in boost for entire rides.

to whoever said it won’t get you very far – it’ll do around 4500ft of steep climbing (to gauge the gradients that’s in about 12miles. (so around 5miles of steep non pedally descending) in about an hour and a 20mins.
On flatter rides (say <1000ft total elevation) in boost 12 miles only uses just one bar of battery (1/5)
As you can see. it’s climbing that uses most battery. Not distance. Dropping down assistance modes makes a lot less difference to battery consumption than most people think. How you pedal them makes more difference.

There’s a ridiculous amount of just plain wrong information about emtbs online. From both ebike owners and haters. Unsurprisingly many here are doing a sterling job keeping it stocked up.

It’s also very strange reading the clauses of where/who/why/what is apropriate ebike use some of you dream up. When in actual fact your true issue is simply not being able to deal with the fear of something new and unfamiliar encroaching on “your” hobby .
Hint: it doesn’t really affect you in the slightest.
A lot of emtb riders have been riding mtb for decades and decades. I know I have.

to the guy who feels “annoyed” by the sound of an ebike’s motor.

I genuinely pity your fragile mental health.

Geex, yep some folk need to get a grip of themselves.

i’ve said this before, nobody in the real world ever says anything negative about my ebike.

the negativity only happens online.

On the climb not the flat .. you can be sceptical but what  I’m saying is that on a step climb this bike seemed to be putting out way more power than the 250w + rider output.

if your going up hills in bath at 15 mph your gonna be kicking out a helluva lot of watts

I’m not arguing about the riding a bike thing so keep you pants on :-]

it just intrigued us how the 250w motor was possibly churning out more like 400 – 500W perhaps it’s a faulty batch 🙂

For the hard of thinking that say it has a “motor” so it’s a motorbike here’s a simple demonstration.

First up an E bike with a good rider on board.

Second up here’s a motorbike with a good rider on board*.

*Loving the way he makes coming up short look like it was part of the plan.😵

So as you can see it’s quite easy to tell the difference…

250w is continuous rating, ie will run  forever without overheating. in reality they can output more, 36v bike with a 15amp controller can peak at 540w for example, even though continuous is rated at 250w.

Anyway I’ve got the Phasor cycles no 2  sat in my cupboard from the old lipo and crystalyte days !!

So I’m actually an early adopter 🙂

Dudeof doom, im not sceptical that it happened, i just don’t reckon the roadies in this instance were all that fit.

i’ve used strava on my ebike, i haven’t troubled any leaderboards.

i can only get about halfway up a couple of local segments in my age group (i’m49).

so, by my reckoning, an ebike makes me about the same as an average stravaist. (Whatever TF that is)

i wasn’t getting uptight btw, it can be hard to accurately convey emotions on the net eh👍👍

250w is continuous rating, ie will run  forever without overheating. in reality they can output more, 36v bike with a 15amp controller can peak at 540w for example, even though continuous is rated at 250w.

Cheers seosamh77

that makes perfect sense, I’d thought the controller in a consumer version would limit to the legal max output of 250 though so it’s probably been unlocked that makes the Watts and speed up hill tally up.

Dude, I’d love to see a picture of that like.

@martymac

S,fine I’m always a bit sceptical 🙂

And seosamh77s explanation makes the numbers work, I didn’t realise the peak output could be over 500watts.

No, I didn’t either.