Drop bars + off road = rubbish braking options

I much prefer descending in the drops. The extra weight over the front wheel really helps with traction on tight twisty singletrack. I do have compact drops though on a less racey frame and will probably get some flared bars to aid control further.

Just get a flippin rigid 29er

In my experience they still feel rubbish on the road. I like mixing all sorts into one ride with the CX bike

On all honesty what’s the frikkin point of that set up up there? As you’re only doing regional events can’t you just run flat bars as opposed to subjecting the levers to forces they’re not designed for?

Is that danger of death from having to ride with those bars ?

Each to their own, so ride what you want and I won’t think any worse of you for it, but when an MTB is so good off road, I can’t really understand the fascination of riding a slightly modified road bike off road

Hi Alex

I have to admit that I hate descending on the drops off road using normal road bars. I now run Salsa Woodchippers and the extra width makes a world of difference. I feel more in control as a result. I won’t go back to normal road bars now.

Hope this helps as it made all the difference for me.

Cheers

Sanny

In my experience they still feel rubbish on the road.

They aren’t if you get there right one and build it right.

What are the bars that epicyclo is using? Mungos?

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR – Member

Each to their own, so ride what you want and I won’t think any worse of you for it, but when an MTB is so good off road, I can’t really understand the fascination of riding a slightly modified road bike off road Have you ridden a cross bike? I never thought I’d enjoy road riding, but the combination of quiet country Peak District roads, the ability to link all sorts of off-road bits together that don’t really make a MTB ride, etc is really really enjoyable.
I’m loving it as it is, but just felt like there was something that could be done to help open up a couple more descents. It’s quite addictive!

Have you ridden a cross bike? I never thought I’d enjoy road riding, but the combination of quiet country Peak District roads, the ability to link all sorts of off-road bits together that don’t really make a MTB ride, etc is really really enjoyable.

I feel the same way about my converted hybrid, but I would rather that or a ‘gravel’ bike than a cross bike tbh.

However down here in Swindon where it’s between 50/50 and 80/20 road/offroad, the 29er makes more sense. There are a lot of lumpy dirt trails which benefit from the cushioning, which comes at the expense of road speed – but it’s still not that slow.

This is one of the reasons I sold my cross bikes. It makes no sense to descent off road in the drops.

On fully road bike drops makes sense as its is more aerodynamic, which is good even for descending.

Moving the bars to such a position that you can descend in the drops means that the standard position is less aerodynamic. And also pointless.

To be honest is anything the bars should be the other way up on a cross bike if you ask me.

You dont need an “uber” aerodynamic position as you have knobbly tryes on.

What you do need is a standard position that is “quite” aerodynamic for the road sections (ie narrow + low)

And a higher/wider position for offroad.

Top levers are pointless as they are even narrower and hence are no good offroad.

The Velo Orange Casey Crazy bars probably make the most sense to me.

But a riser bar where u hold onto the middle section for road bits also makes sense.

You’re trolling, right?

No, if it made sense to descend offroad in a lower position ; then DH bikes would have low front end which they dont.

The only thing the drops have going for them is the brakes are more easily accessed and you get a more solid grip of the bars than the hoods.

But these “advantages” are really down to a poor bar design for road/offroad use.

On-Road drops do make sense as if you really are trying to descend quickly then being in a more aero position will increase ur speed.

I reckon the real reason you sold your cross bikes is that they were the wrong size and set up badly.

And your DH arguement is, um, puzzling.

And your DH arguement is, um, puzzling.

Explain why I would want to be in a lower position off road than on road ?

Its like saying a XC 29er should have a high front end than a DH bike.

For an ideal cyclocross bike the position a road bike produces on the hoods should be replicated for road sections.

This is “semi” aero and also very comfortable for long rides.

However the position for offroad should try and mimic an XC MTB bike.

Mimicking a “fully” aero position for the offroad sections is clearly wrong.

DH is smashing down near vertical gradients at high speed and doing very little else, CX is well, not. The average gradient on a CX ride will be zero. You’ll also spend more time going along and up on a CX bike, where a lower position helps, as does being a bit more aero.

If you want to use a CX for DH, get a DH bike.

And I’m guessing you’ve not done much CX then……..

My brakes work fine ,drops or hoods.
It took a while for my hands to completely get used to hoods, or to be strong enough tbh.
If it gets bumpy descending,I have much more overall control on the drops.

Horses for courses,eh?

You’ll also spend more time going along and up on a CX bike, where a lower position helps, as does being a bit more aero.

I agree, so have this as the standard position.

And then another higher/wider position for off road/DH.

The problem with the top levers is although they are higher, they make your effective bar very narrow (as other has stated) and are therefor also useless off road.

As you have said you have your drops high enough to be comfortable to ride offroad downhill.
Do you ever ride on the hoods now ?
Which sections do you ride on the hoods ?
What are the advantages ?
Is it just thats is a little bit more comfortable everynow and then ?
Is there really any point having this position anymore ?

If the drops are high enough to ride DH offroad there also probably high enough to ride in comfort on road.

And I’m guessing you’ve not done much CX then……..

No but I think alot of Singletrack readers get CX bikes as they want something to link bits of trail (think smallish hills ie chilterns, not Peak district) with road sections in between.

In theory they should be perfect for this, but there not.

They are good on road but due to the design off the bars much much worse than a 29er offroad.

Whether CX are perfect for CX racing is another story. But I still cant see the advantage of the position the drops give u on a CX course myself.

I think what they are good at is improving your riding, the position is so awkward u have to improve to be able to ride in it decently. In that way they are a bit like single speed and sometimes a change is good to improve ur riding.

Ditched the drops for my adventurey bike. 600mm flat bar w/cheap Shimano Hydros, Ergons, oh and clip on aero bars if there’s long road bits involved.

Also allows cheap n easy 1x mtb gearing.

Ditched the drops for my adventurey bike. 600mm flat bar w/cheap Shimano Hydros, Ergons, oh and clip on aero bars if there’s long road bits involved.

This makes sense to me.

It seems to me those who are opposed to dropbars offroad have never ridden a bike properly setup with them.

The whole point is nothing to do with aero. It is for control. Your hands hook into drops better than when they are draped over a flat bar and your wrists don’t suffer as much either. You don’t use the tops as much as you’d think, and if you’re riding mainly on the hoods it usually means your bars are too low.

As a result the bars have to be set higher than you would have them on a road bike. With the very short head tubes on modern bikes, this gives a pretty unsightly stack of spacers and angled stem to get the right height unless you use a shallow drop.

Disclaimer: I’m talking about mtb riding, also gravel rough offroad, not CX.

ianpv – Member
What are the bars that epicyclo is using? Mungos?

Satori bullbar or One23 Minotaur, is the name of the sets I have (it looks like they get different brand names). It looks like it is called the Smooth Drop now. What attracted me was it was mtb lever compatible and a short drop. They’re a bit narrow for hard technical stuff, but I used them for example when I did the World Solo 24 hrs in Ft William. (SIngle speed so they got a bit of abuse)

I seem to recall Alex saying he took his cross bike down Cave-dale.
Now there lies the problem!

As an aside, the biggest problem with dropbars on an mtb is road bike levers. I find them too flexy after using mtb levers. However, maybe this has improved in the last few years.

The whole point is nothing to do with aero. It is for control. Your hands hook into drops better than when they are draped over a flat bar and your wrists don’t suffer as much either.

I can kinda see this point especially with respect to wrists and a rigid fork. I can see that perfectly flat bars are nt maybe the best for a rigid bike offroad.

However a bike that is meant to be partly ridden onroad and offroad. Should have a “semi” aero position for the on road section.

You don’t use the tops as much as you’d think, and if you’re riding mainly on the hoods it usually means your bars are too low.

I agree with this but then what is the point of using road bars/hood/brakes at all. Then the user might as well go for the type of bar u are using above and MTB levers.

Im not saying what is the best solution.

Im just saying the current Road bar setup on CX bikes is a fudge that was no real advantages for any use.

Stick drop bars on a hybrid and sell £Adventure to the Mamils. Fab!

(runs and hides)

Rear wheels are the PITA with that…

scu98rkr – Member
…but then what is the point of using road bars/hood/brakes at all. Then the user might as well go for the type of bar u are using above and MTB levers.

Which is why I have set my bike up like that. 🙂

But the narrow bars wouldn’t suit most people, and if I could get a wider bar that took mtb levers I’d be happy.

(If the bike is using rim brakes then road levers are ok)

One of the things I was thinking while writing the OP was that the drop bar brake/gear lever has evolved from a pretty old setup and hood braking is a bit of a bodge. I wondered whether there could be a new design.

As another aside I remember back in the days of Bicycle Action I remember the Crane brothers had road hoods (just the rubber hoods) on flat bars – inside the brake/gear levers. I think if was on a desert crossing

Orangejohn – Member

I seem to recall Alex saying he took his cross bike down Cave-dale.
Now there lies the problem! I must admit – I was on Stanage Edge on Sunday and I very nearly turned down the plantation descent. In the end I just whizzed down the long causeway, but I was very tempted.

ok – So first I’ll try rotating the bars a little.
Then I might try some Salsa bars (or the Love Mud Bomber £25 ones which look just as good).
Then look at this again.

Thanks all!

Alex

Another thing to consider is using gel inserts under your tape. I was reflecting on this while riding back from Sa Calobra this morning and the extra diameter on the bars makes a substantial difference. A combination of the tape and my Salsa Woodchipper bars is a winner for me. I used to find descending on my old Ritchey Swiss Cross a bit unsettling with road bars. It’s amazing the difference small changes make!

Cheers

Sanny

Update

Went on a long bivy Monday night with the handlebars rolled forwards.
Found braking on the drops a bit easier (was happier on the Long Causeway descent), but didn’t enjoy the new hood position. Found myself on the tops 80% of the time.

I think part of the problem is I’m a mountain biker and used to being more upright. The hoods now felt too far away. It made me wonder if the whole bike was too long.

AlexSimon – Member
…I think part of the problem is I’m a mountain biker and used to being more upright. The hoods now felt too far away. It made me wonder if the whole bike was too long.

When I looked at the first pic of your bike and the way the bars are rotated, my first instinct was your stem is too long. I would also aim to have the top of the bar level with the saddle and preferably higher for offroad.

But that’s guess work without seeing you actually on the bike, and therefore probably wrong.

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