Driving license question

Mrs Grips passed her test after 1997, looks like she can only tow a trailer of less than 750kg. Does this include caravans?

How to get entitlement to tow a van?

Unfortunately yes it does, for some rason the DVLA thinks only those that passed their test b4 X date are capable of towing a caravan without taking an request.

Or could it be another way of grinding more money out of the populace (said in my least cynical but most sarcastic voice possible)

Yes, a caravan is a trailer.
She needs to take a trailer test to get B+E on her licence.
Or buy a tent.

Or buy a tent.

Thanks for that gem. We've been tent camping for ages, it's what made us want a caravan.

From what I read it seemed like you only needed B+E if it was a heavy vehicle… Can't seem to get any sensible info.

Surely that doesn't apply to all trailers? Otherwise there's gonna be a lot of really annoyed people when they find out they can't just hitch up a trailer to do some gardening.

Surely that doesn't apply to all trailers? Otherwise there's gonna be a lot of really annoyed people when they find out they can't just hitch up a trailer to do some gardening.

As only old people have gardens big enough to need a trailer to take away the rubbish its not been a problem so far…

But what people do is pull a trailer either without realising, or not worried about getting caught – which is what a lot of my wife's horsey friends seem to do.

She needs to pass a test.

http://www.advantagehgv.co.uk/horsebox-courses.php?gclid=CMa8g_2DraMCFQ6ElAodFgdM6A

I imagine there is a lot of people towing trailers and driving horse boxes illegally but just don't know it.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022564

if you took your test after 1997 you need to take an extra test to tow anything heavier than 750kg. (which basically means anything with brakes.) this definately includes all horseboxes.

Also, you cannot drive anything over 3500kg MAM without taking an extra test. Us old farts can drive a 7500kg lorry on our car license.

A girl at work went through all of this so she could tow her ponies around in a horse box trailer thingy. Cost her about 2 grand.

another boring fact -speed limit for a normal van on a single carriageway is 50mph, dual carriageway is 60mph and motorway is 70mph.

Heavy vehicle would be C+E or C1+E.
Although, if you pass a C+E test, it automatically gives you B+E entitlement. And a big belly and a fondness for Country & Western music.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073

Category B: Vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes MAM and with up to eight passenger seats
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.

That seems to contradict a few of the posts above. I passed my test in mid 1997 so I guess that means I can tow a caravan/trailer provided it doesn't weigh as much as my car (and combined mass is less than 3.5 tonnes)? 😕

The test is £114. It was introduced as a safety measure apparently. I recently posed this question to my local MP – the question is if it's a safety measure, what metric are/were they using to identify that it was needed and that it has improved. The response, so far, has been "we don't analyse that data". So it's basically a money making scheme.

Add to that the fact that the test does NOT improve safety at all – it simply requires you to drive around a bit without killing people/running over the kerb, be able to reverse in an S and come to a controlled stop (not an emergency stop). And answer 5 questions about loading your trailer. None of those are things that make towing a HEAVY trailer any easier/safer, they're things that apply equally, if not moreso, to lightweight trailers where they do not have their own brakes and are very hard to see behind a car.

I'm just finishing the second letter to the MOT about it.

The answer to the original question is "If your trailer is <750kg you're ok and if your combined mass of car and trailer laden weight is <3500kg you're alright". But since most vans are >1000kg the answer is "no she can't tow it".

I did quite a bit of towing (thousands of miles) towing a 25ft 2 ton trailer with a 2.5 ton car before realising I'd missed the 1997 cutoff date by 3 months 🙁

It's not as straight forward as it first appears. You CAN tow stuff over 750kg but it's a bit complicated and you have to get it right.
As detailed above you can tow a trailer so long as it's MAX weight is no more than The car weighs EMPTY and the MAX weight of the trailer and the MAX weight of the car is under 3.5t in total. So what you need is a car with a MAM of exactly 1750kg with a dry weight as close to that as possible.

Cont. Which ultimately means you can tow a caravan with an astra but towing the same thing with a rangerover would be too dangerous so you can't. Madness!!

I already like Country music (well some) as I grew up in the Midwest (of America) where such things are the norm…as for the belly, well having my daughter has helped not one bit…Maybe I'll be allowed to pass or 'grandfathered in' because of these things?? 😉

Oh, and it's the maximum mas of the trailer so it doesnt matter if you're towing an empty car transporter trailer, since it can be loaded with a large car you're not allowed to tow it.

The whole lot is a joke.

CK – not that your bitter about just missing the cut off date 😆

I'm lucky enough to have passed my test before '97, so it doesn't affect me, but there probably is a safety issue in there somewhere.

I used to work at a place (University summer job), where some of the Class 1 drivers had never had to pass a lorry driving test – grandfather rights or something.

We wouldn't expect LGV drivers to not have to pass a test now.

I've managed to find the relevant info.

Category B is a car with or without a trailer. If the trailer is more than 750kg then the car plus trailer can't be more than 3,500kg. We have a 1800kg car and a 875kg van. So we are both ok.

Bloody confusing website tho.

Plus, I am having deja vu now. We've done this thread before!

CK – not that your bitter about just missing the cut off date

Yup! And I'll be arguing it as long as I can.

molgrips – thats a light van. Are you sure that's the laden weight of it? Ours is a fairly middle sized van and it's over 1200 laden weight.

yup. for this reason, all ambulance staff have to sit an HGV test before they can apply to join up. £1k before you've even got the job.

On the plus side, it does stop loads of people flying around in dangerously overloaded 7.5 ton trucks, and means people have to learn to drive with a caravan before assuming that they can. TBH the more driving tests the better IMO, also retest everyone every 10 years, there's a nice little tax earner straight off, plus loads more jobs for testers/instructers plus loads of inept idiots off the roads… get with it tory boys (cos i know all the governement check singletrack prior to legislation changes!)

I've just realised that there is a significant voice missing from this thread.

Where is the dust kicker upper to the stars? Still on the naughty step?

On the plus side, it does stop loads of people flying around in dangerously overloaded 7.5 ton trucks, and means people have to learn to drive with a caravan before assuming that they can.

Well that's questionable, I suspect 7.5 ton trucks were not so accident prone in the first place and that people with caravans still do have the accidents as those who are careless/skillless enough to not have a clue how to drive one carefully will not take any notice (or even know) they're not allowed to tow one, and if you look into the content of the test it wouldn't improve things anyway, it's just a money making scheme. This is the whole point of my question to the ministry of transport – they have no idea how many accidents they are or are not stopping by creating an extra test. Unsafe loads and over-laden cars towing too large a van were already covered by laws, drivers unable to control their trailer were already controlled by laws on driving standards, there was no reason at all to force such a test and no figures on which to base them.

I would have thought the new rules wouldn't have had too much of an effect on towing caravans yet, how many under 30s have a caravan?

I don't know about the other issues, but when I sat my C1 test, the instructer was saying its a European thing, as presumably our cousins over the water were not allowed to drive anything over 3.5tonne without an hgv license.

It's not just caravans. I recently wanted to tow my car from storage to my house. Couldn't tow it myself so had to pay someone to shift it. Found I could no longer share the holiday drive with my parents towing their speedboat because I'm not allowed, so now my dad has to drive the whole 5 hour journey on his own.

Not to detract from coffee king's argument…which I actually find really quite compelling and I honestly wish him all the best with his line of questioning to the Ministry of Transport…but in relation to the original post, I've taken five driving tests over the last couple of years to drive an assortment of vehicles and can honestly say that I've found them all to be useful and so would encourage anyone to do all they can to widen their knowledge/appreciation of driving.

(apologies if that sounded like a soap box rant)

My point is that those who need the training won't take it and will drive illegally and that the test doesnt actually add any safety that I can see (if it did and dealt with heavy trailers and emergency situations and dealing with harsh braking etc I'd admit it was worth doing). I'd just like to see how many people it saved and whether it was worth th £114 test fee (and £600+ instruction that's advised). I know I've generally been fairly good with driving stuff (occasionally got over-excited as an early driver I admit!), passed my test after 12 hours tuition, could easily reverse a 25ft trailer first time I tried and have done quite a few long trips in 16 seater minibuses – it's something that comes fairly naturally so I know some people may struggle and need a bit of tuition where I may find it a bit easier, but I'm just not convinced it actually catches those who would normally have a go anyway and get it wrong.

molgrips – thats a light van

2 berth 16ft van from 1991 ish. I guess it's the unladen weight + max payload which would be 875kg + 350kg.

CK which rule do you fall foul of? Your car + car trailer is more than 3500kg?

I'm just finishing the second letter to the MOT about it.

I bet you're a hoot at parties

One of my Italian colleagues was a (motor)biker, but had never taken a bike test. It just so use to happen that in Italy if you passed your car test you use to get a bike licence automatically…

The 97 licence thing is an enormous PITA for students unions as well, they have to get separate licences for mini buses. Completely arbitrary. I see just as many old duffers who can't drive as young chavs.

And you see plenty of transits towing trailers that should have tacho's fitted because they are over 3.5 tonnes !!

This is a real pain for a lot of rural workers (farm, countryside, forestry) who do a lot of trailer work, my one hope is that it may reduce the numbers of caravans on the road.

I've had to go through the whole trailer testing with my current employer and to be honest, the test doesn't cover the real important things or put the real skills into practice that make a competent tow driver. All these things I picked up with a previous employer where I towed on L plates as an experienced driver with older guys who had the entitlement but no idea how. Learnt lot of stuff about weight distribution, nose weights, blow-outs, snakeing and reverse manouvering. Weapon of choice was Discovery 3 and 18' twin axle dropside. Hated towing generators, crap balance.

my one hope is that it may reduce the numbers of caravans on the road.

I've worked it out.

You CAN still tow a van.

no you cannot. you need the +E bit?

edit: just found the bit you are going on about. i think you might be right. not confusing at all is it.

No, exactly. I'm not exactly new at this website thing and it still took me a while to find it.

Jamie, you are wrong. (EDIT: Just seen your edit!)

His car is 1800kg MGW, his caravan is 1225kg MGW. Thats a total of 3025kg's, so under 3500kg in total. As long as the unladen weight of his car is over 1225kg he is perfectly legal.

I went through all this, in the end I took a towing test as I need to tow a 3000kg trailer behind a 3500kg van, which most definitely does need the B+E license. I'll be taking it again soon as I just passed my C license, so I can upgrade to C+E for full artic lorrys 🙂

The 97 licence thing is an enormous PITA for students unions as well, they have to get separate licences for mini buses. Completely arbitrary. I see just as many old duffers who can't drive as young chavs.

No they don't, if it's not done for hire or reward students can drive the 16 seaters too (I used to do it all the time). The exemption is the case if:
a.He / she is aged 21 or over;
b.He / she receives no payment or consideration for driving the vehicle;
c.He / she provides the service on a voluntary basis;
d.He / she has held the Category B licence for at least 2 years;
e.The minibus max weight does not exceed 3.5 tonnes; and

And you don't take it outside the UK.

So it's basically a money making scheme.

How do you know it's a money-making scheme without knowing how much the test costs to administer?