Drawing up plans for an extension. £350 sound reasonable?

We’re having a chap round to draw up plans for the extension we have planned, this chap was referred to us by the builder. Single storey extension to replace the conservatory, having a WC fitted with a little cloak rom at the bottom and a sloping roof with a skylight. I really cba phoning round for another architectural engineer drawing dude. He’s quoted about 350-375 for the drawing, is this about right? as it sounds about right to me, but as cheap as poss.

3/4 of a day’s work including a site visit- is he charging enough?

I agree – almost too cheap

Splendid, thanks guys.

Sounds very cheap…

that’s cheap. Depending on client I’d want one and a half times that for planning, regs, liasing with builder, client, authorities.

Certainly not far. Whilst value for money is great be wary of cheap and getting what you pay for. Planning drawings can be much simpler than building regs but getting the design right (or as right as possible) in advance saves LOTS of hassle and cost later on.

Has the builder built the same extension a few times already for neighbouring identical houses?

I used to charge nearly double that for planning applications and the same again for building regs approval and I was told I was too cheap. My drawings were very detailed though compared with others I see that put the bare minimum to get them passed without thinking about how it will actually be built.

The builder I’m considering is an approved contracter for the NHS and I’m given to understand not just any company gets on that list, annually checked etc. There’s very little approval & regs required at the minute, if we go over 3 metres but we can stay within 6 metres without any further approval needed. We submit plans and the council write to our neighbours (if over 3m) and he reckons even if the neighbours say they don’t like it our council pretty much approve anything single storey. The extension will be just 0.5m longer than the conservatory it’s replacing.

If you are ever considering going two stories then make sure you get the foundations approved by building control. On my last extension all that needed changing was one piece of rebar upgrading to a thicker size. I didn’t plan on adding another level but though it may be a selling point when we sold the house. Only cost a few £££ to do. Prob lest than £10.

The permitted development rights that allow extension up to 6m run out on 30th May. Actually they say works need to be completed by then. There are some other limitations such as height. £350 – laugh. Sorry but it kills me as an architect that anyone would draw up (‘draw up’ may be different than ‘design’) for that much. How much do you value what you will get? If you just want a basic box and don’t mind what it looks like or how it works and the builder will iron the creases out then go for it.

Gavin you sound clued up, do you work in the industry? can I pick your brains? drop me an email plz, my email ad is on my profile but yours isn’t, thanks.

This will find you a local Architect who will give you good advice: http://architects-register.org.uk (but you may not like their fees)
This will tell you what you can build without planning permission (though I notice the time limit for the larger extensions has been extended to 30/05/19 (shows what I know!!): http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/extensions/

Thanks, I had noted that may end date earlier and it was a cause for concern.

I used to charge nearly double that for planning applications and the same again for building regs approval and I was told I was too cheap. My drawings were very detailed though compared with others I see that put the bare minimum to get them passed without thinking about how it will actually be built.

+1

If the OP’s drawings are just for planning, then he’ll need further ones for building regs plus possible engineering drawings.

We’re having a guy round to do our loft plans next week. He’s £750, £200 for the structural calcs and then council fees on top. So yeah, £350 sounds a bargain

We’re having a guy round to do our loft plans next week. He’s £750, £200 for the structural calcs and then council fees on top.

I think that’ll be where he’s cheap – the structural calcs are probably not included – worth checking.

To be fair, if he’s done a number of similar extensions it’ll almost be a freebie for him – ours even managed to leave anothers address details on the plans when he printed them out for us!

I’m in the wrong line of work.

I know nothing about architectural engineering, but I’d have thought that what’s essentially a box room would be nearly identical to every other box room he’s ever done. “Ok, I’ve designed it, I’ve gone with… square! That’ll be a six-figure salary please.” As breatheeasy says, “ours even managed to leave anothers address details on the plans”!

I totally get that bespoke work is expensive and would expect to have to pay big bucks for something interesting and unique, but I’m struggling to see how bread-and-butter work like this can cost so much other than “because we can” (see also, letters from lawyers). In a frame of reference I understand, it’s like comparing a “web designer” who creates a unique site from scratch, and one who takes WordPress and slaps a cookie-cutter theme and a bit of corporate branding on it.

Cougar,
The OP doesn’t just want a box room though. You’re paying for some ones experience, design input. They’ll be quite a bit of design inputs that will improve the extension rather than just a barely thought out scheme.

Not to mention overheads, even the design software itself probably has a licence cost for the user.

I’m struggling to see how bread-and-butter work like this can cost so much other than “because we can” (see also, letters from lawyers)

Wait ’til you see what IT people get paid just for turning things off and on and knowing the admin password.

Oh sure. But we don’t charge £350 for half a day’s work to reboot something, but that was kind of the point.

I’ve been an IT contractor (albeit a while ago and not for long), and you can command a fair whack (or in my case, an agency can charge a fair whack and give me 10% of it, as I found out later). But that wouldn’t be for a password reset.

ok Couger,
how long do you think it will take? client meet x 2(min) site survey, draw plans, planning application, regs application.

Who?

I’ve no idea, I said that earlier. But if half of it is cut & pasted from a previous job (as per breatheeasy’s post) then you’re paying for something someone’s already paid for, which is a bit cheeky. On the other hand, I’d expect a designer to reuse designs where appropriate rather than reinvent the wheel every time (but then I’d expect to be billed accordingly for that).

I don’t doubt that it’s the going rate, but it feels excessive to me. I’d expect to pay that sort of money for something with a more bespoke / complex design rather than a cookie-cutter job.

Not saying it’s wrong, it could be a way more complex job than I realise; I’m coming from a point of total ignorance, it’s not something I’ve any experience of. I’m just surprised, is all.

Thinking about it,

It feels like the sort of money you’d charge for corporate rates rather than personal. If I designed a network for a business as an IT contractor I’d be looking at that sort of money; if I did it for a home user (ok, it’d be a lot simpler but) I’d expect to be paid closer to a tenth of that.

If you’re talking planning then you require existing drawings as well as proposed, so even if it were a totally copy and paste job on the extension (which it never is), you still have to survey and draw up what’s there. That’s an absolute minimum of half a days work, probably more like a full day. Morning site visit, photograph & measure, afternoon to draw up.

If you really do think that you’re in the wrong profession, it only takes 7 years to qualify as an architect, after which you can expect to start on about £30k a year. Further salary details for UK architects are regularly published and available here: https://adremgroup.com/guidance/uk-architecture-salary-guide/

Takes longer than that to train as an engineer but you don’t hear it being bleated out all the bloody time!

If I designed a network for a business as an IT contractor I’d be looking at that sort of money; if I did it for a home user (ok, it’d be a lot simpler but) I’d expect to be paid closer to a tenth of that

What do you mean by design a network? A network TA daily rate is 2-3x that and no network TA I’ve worked with does anything in a day. And what are you ‘designing’ for a home user in an hour?

I have no clue about actual architecture either but I’d guess drawing up even basic plans (inc. a site survey) is a couple of days work

We’re about to pay £650 to have our house drawn up prior to designing various extensions. Strikes me as a fair price as its a very odd shaped house,already had several weird extensions on it already.
Once we know what we want, it’ll be £350 to draw up new plans for permission and regs etc, and then 4% of build cost to get the same guys to project manage anything we have done

If you really do think that you’re in the wrong profession, it only takes 7 years to qualify as an architect, after which you can expect to start on about £30k a year

If I’d known that ten years ago I’d have jumped ship and been better off.

Oh sure. But we don’t charge £350 for half a day’s work to reboot something, but that was kind of the point.

You would do if it took half a day and your charge rate was £700 per day.

But, the guy will need two trips (and there could be VAT involved), so probably nearer a full days ‘effort’ and this isn’t salary, but gross costs.

So, simple single storey extension to a house? Work required: Visit client to discuss requirements. Written fee proposal to client including scope, fees, etc. Following agreement to this by client, send out formal appointment documents for signing including fees, terms and schedule of work. One site visit for measured survey. Drawings required: Existing ground floor plan, Existing elevations (all those affected by the extension, so likely three elevations), Block Plan (incorporating Roof Plan), Location Plan, proposed Ground Floor Plan, Proposed Elevations (three). Sections (not necessary as planning submission but still necessary to draw to check extension actually works! Maybe two of these. Total drawings: nine, not inc Location plan or the sections. Send drawings to client for approval. Make amendments following comments. Send another set of drawings for approval. Submit documents on line via the planning portal. Send set of drawings to the client.
half a day’s work? More like a week’s work. All for £375? Seriously? Also likely the name of another client was actually on a title block rather than re-use of the actual drawing. It would be amazing if a design for one client could be reused for another as all houses are different and all clients are different and have different needs and wishes.