Drafting

I have nothing really to add, as it’s all been said.

But.. I struggle to take seriously anything MW says because of his ridiculous over use of the word “chainy”, which just makes you sound like a goon! xx

Our chaingang always changes direction (clockwise or anti) depending on the wind direction. The faster line should be getting sheltered by the slower line in cross winds. I don’t see how it makes any difference to on coming traffic as all they see is two lines of riders. No one should be swinging out into the traffic, it’s just two lines of smoothly switching riders.

ok, i’ve never ridden a road bike let alone done a ride on ze road with a load of people.

so instead of forming an opinion on it i figured i’d ask some questions as to understand it better:

why do people take turns at the front?
why dont people talk to each other instead of hand/arm signals?

i’d be happy chilling in the middle chatting to friends 😀

Our local ride adjusts so the that the fast line is getting sheltered by the slow line. It is much harder work if you have to go through on the windy side.

ac282, that is ridiculous! it means you never get a rest as the slow line still has the wind

why do people take turns at the front?

It’s much harder to be on the front than riding behind someone (a figure of 30% gets bandied about, but obviously it depends on the wind). If you take turns then rest you can keep the whole group going faster.

why dont people talk to each other instead of hand/arm signals?

Lots of reasons. You might be out of breath, it’s hard to hear someone in front of you if you’re going 30mph, it’s clearer.

Pretty good video demonstrating

cheers finbar 🙂 makes sense!

do people chat when not blasting down a hill at 38mph into a headwind?

do people chat when not blasting down a hill at 38mph into a headwind?

No, talking is forbidden on a road bike. Subtle nods and questionably meaningful looks may be allowed now and then though.

(I don’t do roadrage so maybe this is normal, but …)

I was out on the road bike the other day and a bloke appeared on my back wheel on a level road (he’d just come down a long hill, caught me and then freewheeled, so I heard him arrive). He sat there for a mile and a half on his tribars while I rode my normal pace plus a little bit. Eventually he overtook (sped up to do so) so I sped up and got onto his wheel. He then immediately sat up, turned round & said “sorry mate, this is where I stop” and went up a house drive

1) Cheeky? (considering he sped up to overtake me he can’t have been blowing – he was on tribars, so being on the front would’ve been easier for him than me wouldn’t it ?)

2) Why would he overtake literally 20 yards before stopping ? He can’t possibly have thought he’d “won” anything, surely ?

Didn’t really bother me – apart from losing the tow I was expecting for the next mile or so 🙁 , but I don’t get it

but I don’t get it

Sounds a bit dumb. Maybe he’d been on a massive ride and was at that point where your brain just stops working.

lol its a serious question realman…. all these signals and subtle movements suggest to a non-roadie that apart from before/after the ride there isnt much socialness going on!

philc – the biggest group I’ve ridden in was six, and I’ve only done that twice. You can only really chat when there’s somebody next to you, and one or other tends to be passing so not for long

I went out with “DrP’s pain & humiliation disappearing fixie roadshow” a few weeks ago and (once I’d worked out WTF was going on) the pointing at potholes etc worked very well – there’d never have been time for us to pass a message down the line.

🙂 cheers again.

might stick to playing in the woods, all sounds too structured for me. i like to be able to stick my feet out and shout “weeeeeeeeeeeeee!” when i go down long hills like a kid.

all these signals and subtle movements suggest to a non-roadie that apart from before/after the ride there isnt much socialness going on!

You do both. The hand signals mean you point out where the hazards are (or indicate to move around an obstacle). You also call out stuff now and again (but too much of this is annoying). Some people point out every ripple in the road (annoying), some people fail to tell you about bike sized potholes (annoying). Some people get it just right. They’re the ones you want to ride with, but they tend to be 70 years old, well versed in cycling etiquette and will batter you up and down every hill in the county.

All the time you’re either chatting to the rider next to you or gurning, depending on how fit you are/aren’t..!

lol its a serious question realman…. all these signals and subtle movements suggest to a non-roadie that apart from before/after the ride there isnt much socialness going on!

Road rides are quite often more social then mtb rides. Go out with a road club on a sunday morning and its usually just MAMILs gossiping for 3+ hours. They just happen to be riding bikes at the same time too. It’s a bit tricky talking in traffic or when you’re in the pain cave, but for the other 90% of the ride, it’s easy. You can even chat with people whilst racing, although I wouldn’t recommend long winded discussions. All the social side of mtbing is really in the faffing.

Some people get it just right.

I don’t think you have really taken into account how relative the right amount is to the person behind you. Some people with 27mm tyres at 80psi and a brooks on a custom steel frame will ride over anything and not care, other people with a carbon fibre saddle and deep section wheels will want to know if there’s a leaf on the road. IMO, it’s better to point out too much then too little.

yeh, agreed – road is just to get fit in my case. I don’t get lots of free time so in a free hour, ride on the road is 50 min “hard” riding then a quick shower. MTB would be a shorter ride, more bike cleaning, and less hard effort = even fatter scaredy*

… so I ride mtbs for fun instead 😀

(*I’d try running but it’s kack)

njee20 – Member

But.. I struggle to take seriously anything MW says because of his ridiculous over use of the word “chainy”, which just makes you sound like a goon! xx

😆

AHHHH i getsya 🙂

glad to hear there is chatting and social side of it, can see the benefit of road riding with regards to fitness when out in the woods…. been off the mtb for 5 weeks after fracturing my shoulder and in that time i’ve probably spent about 3-4 hours in total on the crappy exercise bike at the gym.

its boring… but its not stop-start-stop-start so when i went around the block on my bike yesterday to see if i remembered how to ride i was miles ahead of mrsconsequence who’s been putting in about 8-10 hours a week on the hills since i’ve been off the bike.

even when i’m back to riding the rough stuff i think i might keep up the occasional blast on the exercise bike as part of my gym efforts. i’d expect people to step in and suggest spinning/buying a road bike or turbo trainer at this point… so to pre-empt those suggestions: i can’t afford another bike, and my gym is tiny and doesnt do spinning.

I’d recommend having a look for some sort of routine, otherwise it might get very boring very quickly. Something like a sprint session would get you very fit, and you’re usually in too much pain to worry about boredom.

The bit I don’t get is the outrage that seems to posted on internet forums when people don’t do a turn. It’s almost as if people don’t want to work hard and get fitter and faster?

I mean the tri bar guy, who’s he cheating; only himself?

I’ve ridden in a group a while ago where someone would be off the back on all the inclines for 50 miles, then come flying past on the last 10 miles downhill after sand bagging all ride. Annoying? Yes! But because I wanted to be on the front working hard, rather than being sheltered. The problem is, if someone does that, how do you go back past them a minute later without them thinking it’s now a race or that you’re a ****?

on the last 10 miles downhill

10 miles downhill? Sure he wasn’t just heavier then everyone else?

how do you go back past them a minute later without them thinking it’s now a race or that you’re a ****?

Just let em go. I mentioned on another post. I was winding down a little, one to bring the group together and two, we had a major climb coming up. Then a young man came past – wow! and did that annoying thing of sitting up. My whole group went past him as soon as the hill kicked in. Some folk just don’t think it through.

But because I wanted to be on the front working hard, rather than being sheltered.

One reason that I found club runs to be almost pointless for real fitness improvements, especially if there’s 30+ in a group – by the time you do a turn, you’ve sat on for 50 miles. Chaingangs better, but only if going for it and a decent distance.

Given my (lack of) proximity to most of the riding my club does these days, and being a new parent, the riding I do – very limited of late – is done solo. There’s nothing boring about forcing a fat unfit body to try to remember how to ride at or above evens for a couple of hours when you’re out on your own.

halington + 1
Ridden with a few pros over the years and that’s how they all do/did it.

ac282, that is ridiculous! it means you never get a rest as the slow line still has the wind

It is harder on the slow line but it keeps through and off going much better as it encourages riders to go into the faster line to get out of the wind and makes it much easier to come through at the front.

I’ve never thought of it as dangerous but we don’t tend to go through and off on busy roads anyway.

ourmaninthenorth: what exactly do you mean by riding at “evens”? Above 20mph?

I wish there was such an elaborate system of rules and etiquette to learn before going out on a mountain bike ride – it would make it so much more fun.

This thread is actually putting me off group riding…

ourmaninthenorth: what exactly do you mean by riding at “evens”? Above 20mph?

Evens = 20mph. I’ll find out why it’s called that and report back…

I wish there was such an elaborate system of rules and etiquette to learn before going out on a mountain bike ride – it would make it so much more fun.

You mean stuff like going to right way at trail centres, whether an Audi is an acceptable mode of transport to and from said trail centres, the use of bar ends, tyres/valves, checking out someone’s bike before deciding whether they are the *right* sort of person to speak to, moaning that “roadies” are miserable, eschewing lycra, etc…. 😉

I’ll find out why it’s called that and report back…

Some googling suggests “it’s because it always has been”, and possibly relates to going under 30 minutes for 10 miles.

I’m seeing some of the old guard from my club at the weekend. I’ll ask them. Now, they were a bunch of hardmen – ride 20 miles to start of road race, race for 70 miles, ride home. None of this “what Audi for trail centre riding?” for them..!

it’s not as bad as people make out. Our club ride is fairly relaxed and as long as point out pot holes or stuff that could make you fall off then it’s cool.

In a race or chain gang training ride then it’s a different story. you need to know how to ride smoothly, draft properly and in a group safely otherwise you’ll take people out

But yes, nothing pisses me off more than the smart-arse that’s been sandbagging for several miles coming through and dropping the group.

😀

Recent first experience with group riding (same sportive as dirtygirlonabike). After a first mostly solo 50 miles, got involved with a group, took a while to realise my little adjustments to pace and position might be a bit alarming to those behind me, so settled down.

Couldn’t get pace right at all though, found them slow on the climbs and actually left them on the first climb, only to be caught again later. Every time I tried a turn on front I just wasted everyone’s time by misjudging pace and pulling away. The folk at the front of the rest of the group seemed experienced enough not to keep trying to make up the gap, they just sat and watched as I ended up out by myself again before being caught, hanging off the back, then repeating the whole sorry process again. They dropped me in the end. 🙄

Every time I tried a turn on front I just wasted everyone’s time by misjudging pace and pulling away

That’s what i was trying to say earlier – its very difficult for those new group riding to judge pace/effort/know when to pull in, especially if they come through from the back. At an APR in March, the group i was with yelled clear every time a rider cleared the wheel in front but it was blooming hard at 21mph on the front.

I’ve ridden various different ways in a bunch, but i hate when its unorganised/the rider from the back comes to the front rather than the one at the front peeling off because the pace will generally change/jump, unless the person from the back has judged when to pull in perfectly.

the group i was with yelled clear every time a rider cleared the wheel in front but it was blooming hard at 21mph on the front.

That would do my head in.

The folk at the front of the rest of the group seemed experienced enough not to keep trying to make up the gap, they just sat and watched as I ended up out by myself

Yep, treat em like a naughty puppy, don’t go after them.

What’s odd is I didn’t realise it was ever an issue until I rode with a bunch on the Rapha who flapped and screamed all day. Then the following week with a 70 year old ex GB roadman whom I could have ridden all day with tyre to tyre without a word ever being exchanged.

People will be wearing black socks next, and leaving the house with frayed cables. 🙄

People will be wearing black socks next, and leaving the house with frayed cables

🙂

Yep, treat em like a naughty puppy, don’t go after them.

😀

OK, so taking the etiquette one step further, if nobody on the front seems inclined to pull over (I was generally sitting off the shoulder of one of the leaders) does that give you licence just to sit there?

I only accelerated to the front the way I was doing because the leaders would have just sat there all day otherwise, which didn’t seem fair, I was glad to draft but didn’t want to feel like a freeloader.

If people seem happy to sit on the front all day, might as well let them. Could always just have asked though. Although if they’re bringing the pace down, go round them.

13thfloormonk. Depends on the ride really, if it’s just a steady ride like a reliability trial then I’d be happy to sit on front all day. If it were a training run I’d put in more effort and need a break at some point.

Seems to me (non-roadie) that regardless of the length of the turn at the front, the thing that then HAS to happen is that the front man “drops off”, rather than the second guy speeding up – that’s just going to make gaps and is a daft idea, surely ?