Does Nick Griffin have a point? Yes, that Nick Griffin…

So on a scale of 1-10 how gay are you?

That is a rather private matter for me, but if you would like to know yourself. This is an easy entrance…
http://www.okcupid.com/quizzy/take

Do people who are religious have a scale of how Christian they are. Isn’t it kind if an ‘either you are or you aren’t thing’ ?

Do people who are religious have a scale of how Christian they are. Isn’t it kind if an ‘either you are or you aren’t thing’ ?

I think they do, I’m sure peopel say things like “I’m not very religious” or “she’s very religious” or “I’m not at all religious”

But, it would be nice if you answered my earlier questions

Are there folks who really believe that people are born gay?

I don’t know as “born” is the correct word. You’re born asexual, in so far as pre-pubescents aren’t particularly straight / gay / bi etc. But when sexuality asserts itself during puberty, we have no control over that; some people are attracted to same-sex partners in the same way that some may be attracted to blondes, goths or antelopes. It’s not a choice, it’s a reaction, you can’t help it any more than you can help getting a stiffy watching Nigella making whipped cream.

Whether that’s genetic or not, I don’t know, not really my field. It would appear so, no?

wwaswas – Member

Do people who are religious have a scale of how Christian they are

Maybe not consciously, but there definately are degrees of religion- people observe their faith to various degrees.

‘I’m a bit gay but I didn’t swallow so it doesn’t count?’

Re your earlier question: I have no idea. I cant imagine ever wanting to have sex with a man so assume I’m genetically hetero. I’m perfectly willing to believe people I meet who make the same assumption about their gayness.

Re your earlier question: I have no idea.

Ah, sorry. I thought you were arguing from and informed position, not just guessing. Ok, that should make your views easier to understand. Thanks this clears things up a bit

‘I’m a bit gay but I didn’t swallow so it doesn’t count?’

I’m not sure what you mean by this, but to be honest I think it might be a bit reductive and offensive

Once again…

Does the specific scale I work from, have any bearing on your argument?

I’ve lost track of what my argument was, tbh, and I have to get my daughter to Guides so I’ll leave you calibrating your gaydar and say cheerio.

My right leg is as gay as a hayrick full of hares on a humid day in may.. whereas most of the rest of my body is hetrosexual with a fragrant scent of peach blossom.. my appendix however is very very bisexual, no matter which scale you use to measure it..
Even with such a glistening rainbow of sexual diversity going on I still choose above all, to be a merchant banker..

You think people are born gay? It’s genetic? There is a Gay gene? have you published these findings?

Sexuality is complicated – maybe it’s got a genetic element to it, maybe not. What is pretty certain is that it’s not a matter of choice. Whereas religion is.

I’ve lost track of what my argument was, tbh, and I have to get my daughter to Guides so I’ll leave you calibrating your gaydar and say cheerio.

I thought so. After starting out defending the gay rights, you end with a little joke about cocksucking gays and some stereotypical generalisation about ‘gaydar’. Well, thanks for your support.

Sexuality is complicated – maybe it’s got a genetic element to it, maybe not. What is pretty certain is that it’s not a matter of choice. Whereas religion is.

But that ignores all the social, cultural and environmental influences, amongst others, which make people either grow up religious or turn religious. It’s not as though anyone one day says “i’m going to start believing in God today'”

I just said that 🙂

Thing is for all those who dont discriminate and say being gay is ok and perfectly normal,just ask yourselves, would you let a gay Dr or male nurse examine your genitals,at the local surgery, or give you a full body shave, prior to an operation in hospital,or getting changed in front of a load of gay men in a changing room at a sports centre etc.

If you refuse, perhaps now is the time to ask your wife or girlfreind how she feels about a lesbian nurse or Gp giving her a cervical smear test, women just see it as part of a medical investigation.

Discrimination is still engrained in a lot of peoples minds they just decide when to shout theyre not discriminateing while keeping quiet about personnel matters.

Also noticed there are not many openly gay cyclists willing to comment on the above posts, tells you a lot about discrimination in the cycling fraternity.

would you let a gay Dr or male nurse examine your genitals,at the local surgery, or give you a full body shave, prior to an operation in hospital,or getting changed in front of a load of gay men in a changing room at a sports centre etc.

is that really an issue in this day and age..!?

I do martial arts with a (very) gay man. I don’t feel threatened at all. Besides, I don’t think he fancies me.

But that ignores all the social, cultural and environmental influences, amongst others, which make people either grow up religious or turn religious. It’s not as though anyone one day says “i’m going to start believing in God today'”

Isn’t that called being “born again”? Though often an ingestion of a large quantity of drugs seems to be required.

It’s still a choice. It might be a choice under duress, but they’re adults in a western democracy, and they’re choosing to be offended.

My hair, what’s left of it is definitely bisexual.
Sometimes it’s straight, sometimes not.

or getting changed in front of a load of gay men in a changing room at a sports centre etc.

especially since Gay men report, having slightly longer and thicker penises than non-gay men.

Bogaert AF, Hershberger S (1999). “The relation between sexual orientation and penile size”. Arch Sex Behav 28 (3): 213–21.

Isn’t that called being “born again”? Though often an ingestion of a large quantity of drugs seems to be required.

It’s still a choice. It might be a choice under duress,

Not really, I don’t think they could choose not to change their beliefs, that’s the nature of belief isn’t it?

So no-one stops believing in god?

So no-one stops believing in god?

they do, but not by choice. Their beliefs change, and that’s not by choice either

How would I even be aware of a doctors sexuality? Is it that they’d all be wearing pink shirts or something?

Their beliefs change, and that’s not by choice either

So any time someone changes their mind about something, that’s not their choice? When I changed my mind about what I had for breakfast, that was a change of mental state that was outside my control? Or is it only changes of mind about religious matters that are outside our control?

Thing is for all those who dont discriminate and say being gay is ok and perfectly normal,just ask yourselves, would you let a gay Dr or male nurse examine your genitals,at the local surgery, or give you a full body shave, prior to an operation in hospital,or getting changed in front of a load of gay men in a changing room at a sports centre etc.

Yes, the same way as I’d allow a woman to do it. I’m reasonably sure that both would be able to retain a level of professionalism rather than being driven wild with uncontrollable desire or accidentally slip and fall on my cock.

This might come as a shock, but just because someone is gay doesn’t automatically mean they fancy you.

they do, but not by choice.

People who stop believing in god don’t do it by choice? Wut? Care to expand on that?

So any time someone changes their mind about something, that’s not their choice? When I changed my mind about what I had for breakfast, that was a change of mental state that was outside my control? Or is it only changes of mind about religious matters that are outside our control?

No, it’s change of beliefs which are outside our control.

People who stop believing in god don’t do it by choice? Wut? Care to expand on that?

Well, their beliefs change. this is not a choice, it’s based on a changing different interpretation of the world around them.

woah, there really is a God Gene!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_gene

Well, their beliefs change. this is not a choice, it’s based on a changing different interpretation of the world around them.

So how we interpret the world around us is not a conscious decision? How do you explain, well, all experimental science then?

Or are you saying that people who believe something irrational (religion) can make an irrational decision to stop being religious?

Having googled ‘The Christian Institute’ after reading that this particular organisation had supported the B&B owner in her case..

The Christian Institute exists for “the furtherance and promotion of the Christian religion in the United Kingdom” and “the advancement of education”.

The Christian Institute is a nondenominational Christian charity committed to upholding the truths of the Bible. We are supported by individuals and churches throughout the UK.

We believe that the Bible is the supreme authority for all of life and we hold to the inerrancy of Scripture. We are committed to upholding the sanctity of life from conception”

So, basically they believe their religion has a higher authority than the UK legal system and therefore they are justified in ignoring the laws they don’t agree with.

The verdict must have come as a bit of a shock then 😆

So how we interpret the world around us is not a conscious decision? How do you explain, well, all experimental science then?

I’m not sure why that is a contradiction. You believe the results of experimental science, because of the way you construct knowledge. There is no ‘choice’ involved. Take any belief you have, be it in social equality, racial equality, political view and see if you can choose to believe the opposite of your current belief. I reckon you can espouse the views of the other side, but deep within you, your belief will not have changed.

Or are you saying that people who believe something irrational (religion) can make an irrational decision to stop being religious?

No

The thing that I would agree with Nick is that if people want to be bigoted as part of their business, then let them be bigoted, i would suggest that they are then required to advertise their bigotry, and let the market determine if their business succeeds or fails.

If for example we advertised that we didnt want female customers we would only get customers who followed our beliefs, we would probably go out of business, but people would know of our views.

So really there’s no point in arguing with anyone, as you’ll never change their mind? 🙂

That is a rather private matter for me

wasnt asking you as I guess you knew, just found the idea of a “gay” scale bizarre and was mocking it, seems the joke is on me, will try to read up on it.

project – Member
Thing is for all those who dont discriminate and say being gay is ok and perfectly normal,just ask yourselves, would you let a gay Dr or male nurse examine your genitals,at the local surgery, or give you a full body shave, prior to an operation in hospital,or getting changed in front of a load of gay men in a changing room at a sports centre etc.

If you refuse, perhaps now is the time to ask your wife or girlfreind how she feels about a lesbian nurse or Gp giving her a cervical smear test, women just see it as part of a medical investigation.

How would you know the sexual orientation of any of these people?

There is no ‘choice’ involved. Take any belief you have, be it in social equality, racial equality, political view and see if you can choose to believe the opposite of your current belief. I reckon you can espouse the views of the other side, but deep within you, your belief will not have changed.

So what you’re saying is that when you “choose” to believe something, you actually haven’t had a choice at all, you just think you have? Sorry, just trying to clear up what you’re saying…?

I reckon you can espouse the views of the other side, but deep within you, your belief will not have changed.

well that’s a depressing thought and wow a nick griff bashing thread has suddenly gotten very deep. Trying to figure out your angle singletracked (if u have one and if it matters) don’t like us discussing gayness lightly? defending religion? Just wondering, no need to answer.

Back to the scale.
I presume there’s scales for all sorts of things, theres not many facets of being human that are binary not even gender, i’m thinking OCDishness and similar. is there a threshold level where you are labelled, if there is does it really matter, or even help to be labelled? surely it’s how you decide for yourself that matters?

project – Member

Thing is for all those who dont discriminate and say being gay is ok and perfectly normal,just ask yourselves, would you let a gay Dr or male nurse examine your genitals,at the local surgery, or give you a full body shave, prior to an operation in hospital,or getting changed in front of a load of gay men in a changing room at a sports centre etc.

Yes, of course. And you’re getting a genuine WTF for this one.

For the former two… They’re professionals, as long as they’re doing their job properly then what is the problem? One of the team who did my surgery was gay and one of them was a woman and they all got a good look at my oh so buff bod (inside and out!) I don’t think they were either put off or massively aroused tbh. But you never know, that was quite a strong anaesthetic.

For the latter… If you’ve got changed in communal changing any number of times, then most likely you’ve done so in the company of a gay man. Probably best work out some way to deal with that.