Do you believe on god?

Quite the opposite, atheism is about accepting that some mysteries and questions will forever remain unsolved, that we will never have the answer for everything and accepting the unknown for what it is rather than believing that an invisible friend in the sky has all the answers.

That’s agnosticism, surely?

Atheism rejects the possibility that God (or gods) exist.

HTH

I’m quite agnostic on things like this. I believe there could be a god, in the sense that there is an underlying cause of reality, and a reason why there is something instead of nothing, and that is is concious, to an extent. But this is merely a comforting thought, as otherwise you have to think far deeper, and try to understand things that are far more complex.

I quite like the thought of a Futurama style god, a mass of plasma, gas, and stars, somewhere deep in space, that has formed almost a huge super computer, and is almost completely unaware of human existence.

I also quite like the idea of a Forever Free style god, where there is a single concious being running an experiment, he has created our universe, and just plays with it. The idea that there are more of him, and more universes, raises an interesting question, and so does the idea of someone managing, or watching over, all the experiments.

Or we could be in a matrix type situation. Or reality could just be a complete and utter lie. If there is a god though, does he have a god too? If you accept that god created reality, who created god? It’s possibly even a more discomforting thought.

I don’t waste too much time on thoughts like this though, there’s not much point to it. I’d rather think about fun stuff. I do find most religions rather silly though, as I don’t believe someone would create a universe then spend his time telling a bunch of desert people how to live, although the basic idea of most religions is quite nice – love thy neighbour, yada yada yada.

Gnostic atheists are very annoying though.

Herman Shake +1 (as similarly I’ve lived my life with a severely mentally and physically disabled brother who couldn’t pray nor even begin to understand any concept such as ‘God’)

I find it impossible to seperate out the concept of God from associated organised religions, and I find the religions that I am familiar with to be homophobic and sexist. Religion offers a prescribed way of living, outlining moral codes which define ‘good’ behaviour. I find aspects of these moral codes to be discriminatory against women and gay people, and that they limit the need for all of us to reflect on and consider our behaviour ourselves.

As these moral codes purport to be ‘the word of god’, by association I cannot support the concept of a god.

I fully respect other people’s right to believe in whatever they choose, I just profoundly object the any attempts to convince others to believe the same, or to impose their religious moral codes of behaviour onto others.

That’s agnosticism, surely?

Atheism rejects the possibility that God (or gods) exist.

HTH

Accepting that we will never know the answers, is not the same as accepting the possible existence of god, not sure how you got that from that paragraph.

That’s agnosticism, surely?
Atheism rejects the possibility that God (or gods) exist.

HTH

Accepting that we will never know the answers, is not the same as accepting the possible existence of god, not sure how you got that from that paragraph.

Oh, okay then.

Admitting that we will never know the answers whilst rejecting the possibility of a divine interpretation is certainly an interesting stance. It’s like knowing and not knowing at the same time.

Anyone want to discuss if there is a Devil?

Someone is going to say that they believe in Intelligent Design next…

No, it’s agnostic atheism.

Most sane people fall into the four possibilities I think; agnostic/gnostic atheist/theist.

If you are a person of faith you are culpable to an extent in all of the activities of the faithful bad and good, no matter how limited your involvement in organised faith. By accepting god you are part of the god squad as a whole.

I can do without that on my conscience.

The word “believe” always stikes me a suitably vague anyway. It seems to cover everything from “firm religeous faith” through to “an opinion”. 😆

Do you have a need, to which one solution is a god?

I prefer questions. “Why” is always a good one.

If you are a person of faith you are culpable to an extent in all of the activities of the faithful bad and good, no matter how limited your involvement in organised faith. By accepting god you are part of the god squad as a whole.

I can do without that on my conscience.

Are you saying that all Muslims everywhere are guilty for every terrorist attack that is committed in the name of that faith? It’s a pretty bold claim. What if someone went out and killed a whole bunch of people in the name of atheism? Would you be able to live with the guilt?

If you are a person of faith you are culpable to an extent in all of the activities of the faithful bad and good, no matter how limited your involvement in organised faith. By accepting god you are part of the god squad as a whole.

It’s an interesting point, but it rather depends on if you define a god as the representation defined by a set of religious doctrine, or use other definitions.

Oh, okay then.

Admitting that we will never know the answers whilst rejecting the possibility of a divine interpretation is certainly an interesting stance. It’s like knowing and not knowing at the same time.

Not really, not understanding how something works, how something reacts, how electricity in biological matter creates thoughts and ideas, is a perfectly natural position to be in. The fact that I don’t have to understand or need to understand, means I don’t have to jump at ridiculous magical answers to explain away my lack of understanding.

joolsburger – Member
If you are a person of faith you are culpable to an extent in all of the activities of the faithful bad and good, no matter how limited your involvement in organised faith. By accepting god you are part of the god squad as a whole.

so similarly, those who object to the worship of a ‘God’ have complicity in all the persecutions of people of faith by atheistic regimes ????

Fascinating thread. Some really, really interesting points of view and onions being expressed, and not quite as much narrow-mindedness as there often is on such threads.

You cannot discuss God without religion

Again, I’ve got to strongly disagree with this. Herman; seems that you cannot conceptualise God outside of the framework of organised religion, and have little or no understanding of how others, such as myself, can. You question how a God can allow awful things to happen, such as the suffering of Humans, but you’re attaching too many values from organised religion to the notion of what or ‘who’ God is. Why does God necessarily have to be this wonderful loving kind benevolent being, as portrayed by many religions?

To me, the idea of God is born of our Human desire, need, to understand stuff. Where there were gaps in understanding, it appears the belief in God/s and attributing the inexplicable to God/s was very common. Things like the seasons. And if the rains din’t come, or the crops failed, it might have bin seen as the anger of God/s.

Of course, religion developed around the idea that there was a God/Gods behind everything, then became the principle form of societal and economic control. And yes, it was exploited and manipulated by those seeking to serve their own ends. To the extent the way we behave socially is very much governed and shaped by religious ideology; our laws definitely are, and even our behaviour on the forum! See the rules on swearing for a perfect example of this…

These days, increasing number of people see Science as the principle form of investigation, as the development of scientific techniques has led to many religious theories being proven incorrect. We now use science to fill in the gaps in our knowledge, and indeed, it seems a safer method of exploration, mostly. But Science, like religion, is often manipulated to control and serve the powerful. Hiroshima, Nagasaki, the Space Race etc.

And there are times when there is perhaps too much ‘faith’ in Science; take the case of the drug Thalidomide, who’s side-effects caused so much suffering for so many people. Of course that wasn’t intended, but it just shows that the power offered by Science must be wielded carefully. Industry driven by scientific exploration is causing irreparable damage to our planet. And we’re at the stage now where those expressing concern and the need for caution are treated like the heretics and blasphemers of the past.

Don’t get me wrong, I love Science. I just feel there is room for all manner of thought, not just a pattern sanctioned by those in power, or those who proclaim themselves to be superior because their beliefs are more correct than others.

I just feel there is room for all manner of thought, not just a pattern sanctioned by those in power, or those who proclaim themselves to be superior because their beliefs are more correct than others.

Couldn’t agree more. Pity the likes of TJ, Woppit et al cannot be more tolerant of others beliefs.

Couldn’t agree more. Pity the likes of TJ, Woppit et al cannot be more tolerant of others beliefs.

Why does one set of beliefs deserve tollerance more than others? Plenty of people on here challenge, some might even say bully, TJ for his beliefs.

Religious beliefs, like all beliefs, should be open to challenge and criticism, they do not deserve special treatment.

Agree with Fred, God is a manifestation of y/our inability to comprehend the vastness and depth of existence and reality.

Some people turn to religion for answers others to art, poetry, philosphy or science – which one is ‘right’?…..

…..IMO ‘none of the above’ at least in isolation.
We need all aspects of our experience, intellect and creativity to even begin to understand “the big questions” and using an adversarial reductionist approach does nothing but build boundaries and exploit differences between people with varying understandings, experiences, opinions and beliefs.

If you are a person of faith you are culpable to an extent in all of the activities of the faithful bad and good, no matter how limited your involvement in organised faith. By accepting god you are part of the god squad as a whole.

Silly.

If you are a football supporter you are culpable of any football hooliganism?

If you ride a bike you are culpable of red light jumping?

If you have a child you are culpable of playground bullying?

If you vote you are culpable of supporting the system that makes possible the BNP?

gonefishin – Member

Plenty of people on here challenge, some might even say bully, TJ for his beliefs.

The difference is Tj doesn’t put his points over as beliefs or opinions but as :facts:

If we’re going to decide if God exists or not we’re going to have to deefine what me mean by the term and stick to it.

The God I don’t believe in is obviously different to the God some people choose to accept. 😀

“Do you believe in god?”

No.

😆

The difference is Tj doesn’t put his points over as beliefs or opinions but as :facts:

As do many, many Thesitic people. The difference is that his facts are at least falsifiable.

is god short for godfrey? if so then i know he exists, i’ve got him working a shift for me in oxford at the moment.

increasing number of people see Science as the principle form of investigation

Eh?

If you ‘investigate’ something, that’s you, doing science, right there.

That’s what ‘SCIENCE’ is; it’s a way of asking about the world.
Religion is one way of answering those questions, old fashioned, self limited, unsatisfactory, but just one way of answering.

Because God didn’t build himself that throne
And God doesn’t live in Israel or Rome
God doesn’t belong to the Yankee dollar
And God doesn’t plant those bombs for Hezbollah
God doesn’t even go to church
And God won’t send us down to Hell to burn
God will remind us what we already know
That the human race is about to reap what it’s sown

From one of my fave choons.

Very true Rusty Spanner 🙂
There’s that old thing about a bunch of philosophers discussing the concept of existence and the problem that it’s hard to tie down what reality is and if we are as individuals real objects or just constructs of an imagination, or for that matter even if imagination really exists.
One of them sits quite quietly and when it comes to his round says “Anyone here who doesn’t exist, put your hand up, because I’m not buying pints for imaginary people”

..and just to overturn the usual science is a religion thing, it’s actually the other way round.

Religion is very early, quite primitive science; it’s an attempt to explain the universe using various theories with a helping of social construction on the side.

Unfortunately, the historical development of religion as science has painted it into a corner, leaving it unable to deal with the things that have come later, apart from imaginative reinterpretation.

Religion is very early, quite primitive science

I believe that this could be true. Equally, though, it could be stated that religion is an inadequate expression of the divine… and that the problem with atheism is that non-theists are left countering the precepts of dogma, rather than arguing truly against the existence of a divine unknown.

Non-theists don’t have to argue against the existence of a divine unknown; the clue is in the name.

The logical extention becomes insulting; I don’t argue against the existence of a whole number of things, so why am I not defined as a non unicornist, a non homeopathist, and so on.

There is no ‘problem with atheism’, there is only a problem with people who wish to ascribe problems to atheism.

Afternoon,

Have you all not got something more constructive to be doing.

Heh! 😀

No, God is there to fill a void of knowledge, it’s a way people have of explaining things they don’t understand, nothing wrong with that. But I’m happy enough knowing that I don’t know everything and that we are just a part of the expanding universe.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that our acceptance of god as a species seems to decrease as our knowledge of Science increases.

God – Member

Afternoon,

Have you all not got something more constructive to be doing.

Well if you have to ask, then your not an all knowing god!

What was Mary like in bed?

‘God has gone wrong again.
He’s taken my money and run,
I lost control of him I turned the switch and none of the lights came on.’

tyger – Member
Anyone want to discuss if there is a Devil?

What’s to discuss?

NO, in my own opinion it is the biggest loads of bollox ever made up.

if you believe there is a bloke in a white robe sat behind a cloud you need to go and see somebody.

as stated above…

it’s a way people have of explaining things they don’t understand,

you cant argue with somebody who is a believer, check out dawkins interview with the arch bishop.

BUT that is just my opinion, if people believe in god and it makes them a better person and happy who am i to argue.

if people believe in god and it makes them a better person and happy who am i to argue.

That’s fine, until the logical extension becomes kill the unbeliever because the man who knows about God said so…

…and that is why questioning religious beliefs is important, that is why it should be open to criticism, that is why we should be able to hold religion up to the light and examine all its claims, that is why religion deserves no more respect than any other belief.