Difference between Rab and Arc’teryx?

I really like Patagonia and their ethical standpoint, but the fit of their gear is really boxy

Yup, agreed, Paramo is the same. I know Paramo stuff is very well regarded, but it looks terrible, and I ain’t paying all that cash for a jacket that looks shite!

I’ve found Arcteryx to be pretty bombproof, and my relatively recent Beta made in China seems to be just as well made as the 2003 Canadian-made one it replaced. Seems like they still haven’t sorted out their UK warranty process though – sending an 8 year old jacket off to Switzerland to have some seam tape reattached was not ideal even though it was sent back as good as new.

Haglofs are also worth looking at.

I suspect there’s Haglofs and there’s Haglofs. A Haglofs jacket I got to replace a worn-out Arcteryx was in a worse state after one season of ski touring than the old Arcteryx. When your life may depend on it you want something that works so I went back to Arcteryx.

Seems like they still haven’t sorted out their UK warranty process though – sending an 8 year old jacket off to Switzerland to have some seam tape reattached was not ideal even though it was sent back as good as new.

Yeah, given the postage costs I wouldn’t even bother in future, there’s local places that do really professional repairs, probably for less than the cost of postage to Switzerland! Scottish Mountain Gear for example.

At least with Keela I can take it back to the factory in Glenrothes and they’ll repair

I keep trying to find a reason to buy a new Keela Saxon but sadly have all the waterproofs I’ll need for the next wee while. Looks perfect as a bikepacking jacket.

Go full STW and get the Rapha Explore jacket!

I keep trying to find a reason to buy a new Keela Saxon but sadly have all the waterproofs I’ll need for the next wee while. Looks perfect as a bikepacking jacket.

Every time I’ve seen one they look a bit boxy too, I hate jackets that aren’t well fitted tbh, otherwise I’m with you.

I have a Patagonia Down Hoody which I like but it did wear out pretty quickly (circa 2 winters), the fabric around the base where the hem drawstring goes through wore out quicker than I would like, which was pretty disappointing. I’m not sure the fabric is thick enough to be an everyday jacket.  I have other Patagonia kit (waterproof, fleece, hoody, baselayers, even a belt) which has been excellent and hardwearing.

My everyday outside jacket is an Alpkit synthetic fill, which has been worn almost daily during the colder months with various layers depending on the temp. It’s been amazing.  Washed it loads with no apparent ill effects.

I also have an older North Face gilet that isn’t worn that much as I find it too warm unless it’s baltic and then my arms are too cold.

For everyday use in the UK I would be looking at a synthetic jacket rather than a down one.

As above its unforgivable that certain companies (keela, paramo) don’t put a bit if effort into making their jackets look a bit better. It’s so basic, but overlooked.

@thegeneralist – just because they don’t appeal to you it doesn’t mean they don’t think about it. Paramo have always been a little different as their target customers are hikers, climbers, Mtn Rescue, birdwatchers, etc. They’re not designed to walk down the high street and look cool, they’re designed to work. Their kit has evolved over the years but it’s definitely not as fashionable as other brands

Keela are quite similar in that they supply Ambulance, Mtn Rescue, Police etc. Again the kit is designed to do a job not look pretty

Keela look a lot better than paramo tbf, and lots of companies manage to make kit that both works well and looks good.

Brands are interested in one thing, sales. If folks aren’t gonna buy kit because it looks shite, then that’s a problem for them.

I find that my Keela Saxon has been one of my best outdoor purchases ever; it’s used for all my off-road everything, bike, running and some ski touring in the spring. The shape works for me and matters very little, anyway, as it’ll always have a pack over it. It never leaves my main bag. Unless I’m wearing it, of course. I agree with ElShalimo above; it’s function over fashion at Keela.

Are you saying that I don’t look cool in my Paramo Velez Smock?!

Possibly! 😆

Haha! Wasn’t it you that described it as looking like it comes from an indoor market 😂😂😂

I reckon Paramo are going for the ‘I think I’m cool because my stuff looks so functional and uncool’ market. 😉

Arcteryx stuff is generally a bit more fitted than most IMO, especially other American brands. Dunno about RAB.

they’re from Canada

My Paramo Alta III is by miiiiiiiilllllles the best jacket I’ve ever owned. To be fair to the comments above, it’s the only one of theirs I tried on that wasn’t boxy (I went to their Wadhurst store to try before buying). In terms of quality it’s so much better than the North Face and Haglofs jackets I’ve owned.

No idea how anyone can wear a down jacket in the UK. Far too warm most of the time and it rains a lot!

No idea how anyone can wear a down jacket in the UK. Far too warm most of the time and it rains a lot!

Maybe the UK is bigger than your neighbourhood and has remarkably differing weather?

Yeah, to some us the concept of ‘winter’ does actually relate to a real season. You know, with snow and real frost.. I think the coldest I’ve experienced in Scotland was a confirmed -23C. Doesn’t happen every year but happens often enough that a genuinely chunky down jacket is very useful indeed. It’s been around -15C at the house on a few occasions in the 20+ years I’ve lived here in this part of Angus.

Even for you Molly, that’s a daft comment!

I am fortunate (maybe) to get a 50% discount off Rab stuff, although i dont like the look of their stuff? So at half of list price is it worth it?

if you are going to use it for its intended  purpose then yes

Well I stopped in at a Cotswold Outdoor yesterday and tried a few on. The Rab Microlight is a very good fit but yeah not same quality as the Arc’teryx and likely not as warm. The Cerium was a bit small in a medium but cut is great, sure the large would fit me perfectly.
Tried on a ME Sensja or something but fit not as good. So I’m down to three options:

Rab Microlight – £170ish. Good fit, quality not quite as good, not as warm. Hydrophobic down
Arc’teryx Cerium – can get a black one for £230. Great fit, quality, not hydrophobic down. 10 denier fabric. Warranty centre in Switzerland, post Brexit issue?
Jottnar Fenrir – not tried on but looks great. Hydrophobic down, UK warranty, 30 denier fabric. £300 though! Can’t see how the price hike from £200 a few years back is justified even given costs of everything going up, just aligning themselves closer to Arc’teryx maybe?

I’m leaning towards the Arc’teryx as the middle “sensible option” although not mad keen on black. Just wondering if I’ll regret it with the lighter face fabric, lots of brambles around here. The Jottnar does seem to tick all the boxes but £300! Just can’t bring myself to do it. Might wait and see if they have a new year sale although they are already sold out of nearly all size large.

TL:DR – after all that rambling I’m asking if anyone can comment on durability between 10 and 30 denier face fabric? If I am going to spend out I want something that is really going to last 5 years plus

I live the cut of Paramo smock. Your mileage may vary

There are days for down in the uk but there are far more where it seems a potential liability.

I dunno, I pretty much live in a Rab down gilet for a lot of the year. I was enjoying the Kilpi down jacket I had before I sent it back and I have a goretex jacket to go over the top if required

I live the cut of Paramo smock.

You are Bender (from Futurama) and ICMFP.

Just buy the yellow one

Lol @ scotroutes!

I’m pretty sure that not much modern kit lasts as long as stuff that we could buy 20 years ago, it’s an industry driven by super light weight demands, and breathability, light weight kit just won’t last as long, that’s a fact, and performance of technical fabrics is bound to drop off over time, surely.

Down jackets are fairly limited here in the west of Scotland too, for obvious reasons. I have one for food stops and camping, but it’s a cheap one from Montanes own discount site, was about 70 quid IIRC, I prefer the likes of alpha shell or a fleece combined with a really light windproof layer for being on the move.

Layering is far more versatile.

Just buy the yellow one

For God’s sake don’t confuse me any further, haven’t I already made it abundantly clear that I’m incapable of thinking for myself?

Yellow is 17% warmer. Fact!

Have you ever seen a cold banana?

Hmm maybe modern stuff doesn’t last so long,, but I had a Rab jacket in the late 90’s and it was pretty awful looking back. Weird fit, rubbish pertex and not very warm either. Not nearly as good as what I have now (ME, Arcteryx, Norrona). Layering is good, but sometimes it’s really nice to get a big down jacket on/off quicko

Aye, hence my wee Montane layer lives in a drybag in my pack, for such occasions.

Another vote for ME. Got their Shivling Jacket (around 250 notes?). Nice features, well made, good fit. Actually waterproof. But the zip went funnny. ME don’t cover zips on their warranty? That’s like a car manufacturer not guaranteeing their engines! So disappointed slightly, as otherwise it’s solid. Got loads of RAB stuff. I like the fit of their base layers, but I owned a jacket and it leaked like hell after a season.

@davosaurusrex

I’m not sure if Brexit will have any effect on shipping returns to Switzerland (if you need to, I hope you dont).

The Jottnar stuff is very nice, but I have seen it on sale fairly recently, even for sale on Sportpursuit this year too.

Sorry to chuck another brand in there but I got a Mountain Hardware down jacket early this year. Slim fit, warm as heck, not sure how it would fare in the rain as I wear an Arcterex one if wet, or likely to rain.