Death wish overtaking on the A9

Depends how long the average is measured over, shirley?

True, but unless they install they make the distance very short, I can’t see it helping the accident rate all that much.

I reckon 90% of objectors to the average speed cameras are really objecting because they want to break the speed limit themselves.

Made up statistic alert.

The only 90mph warrior I’ve been passed by recently was pulled by the police moments later.

The issue is about average speeds and keeping them up, not by high peak speeds but by reducing the amount of time at low speeds. Oddly Transport Scotland told me they wanted to make journey times “more reliable” but were unable to point to any research suggesting how that would be either measured or influenced.

The only 90mph warrior I’ve been passed by recently was pulled by the police moments later.

An exception rather than the rule. The Police coverage of the A9 is tiny, it’s a 273 mile long road with maybe 2 or 3 police cars on it at peak times?

Made up statistic alert.

Yes, that’s why I started the sentence with ‘I reckon’.

True, but unless they install they make the distance very short, I can’t see it helping the accident rate all that much.

I’m bored so I did the calculations. Assuming the cameras are half a mile apart, doing 3/4 of that distance at 60mph and 1/4 at 90mph, that gives an average speed of 65.45mph so it’s very borderline.

I doubt the cameras will be half a mile apart, the road is approx 136 miles long, which would make 272 cameras one way, 544 two ways. How much infrastructure needs to go in to support that lot?

‘m bored so I did the calculations. Assuming the cameras are half a mile apart, doing 3/4 of that distance at 60mph and 1/4 at 90mph, that gives an average speed of 65.45mph so it’s very borderline.

Lots of assumptions in that calculation, change it a little and its no longer borderline.

For reference on the A77 there is a 32 mile stretch covered by average speed cameras, they can be up to five miles apart

I doubt the cameras will be half a mile apart

The FAQ bit on the govt’s website, if you scroll down it far enough, suggests around 40 camera sites averaging 6km apart.

FAQ

And only one set work on the A77. What dropped the accident rate on the A77 was shutting, or upgrading, some of the suicidal junctions and dualing it.

For reference on the A77 there is a 32 mile stretch covered by average speed cameras, they can be up to five miles apart

On the dual carriageway section approaching the Monkton Lodge, they’re about half a mile apart

I guess there will be detailed analysis and simulations and the planning and placement of them will be optimised to reduced the speeds in the most important places? So some sections longer or shorter than others. What you don’t want to happen is people being scared of overtaking quickly (but safely) on the duelled sections and causing further frustration on the single carriageway sections.

Not read through all the posts but around Springtime 2014 they are going to raise the A9 LGV limit to 50mph on selected sections. It will be for a trial period & monitored in the hope it might ease some of the frustration on that road.

Time will tell of course.

There are so many HGVs doing 40 now

around Springtime 2014 they are going to raise the A9 LGV limit to 50mph on selected sections.

Given that the speed limit for LGVs and HGVs is 40mph on all A roads I’ve never really understood why the A9 is pretty much the only A road in the UK where truck drivers routinely observe that limit. The A76 near me is one of the few where there are regular signs highlighting the 40mph limit for trucks and the limit is almost universally ignored. A truck driver delivering to my workshop actually had to ask me whether the signs even applied to him- he genuinely didn’t know what the limit for his vehicle was on a single carriageway or that the signs were stating something that applied to all A roads not just the one he’d just driven down.

Even making an exception and raising the limit on the A9 trucks would still be travelling slower than they do anywhere else and people will still overtake them because of that so I’m not entirely sure what the trial can hope to prove. You’d either need to go the whole hog and raise it to 60 or drop the limit for cars down to 50.

I don’t know what all the fuss is about. As a kid in the 1970s being taken up there by my parents, it was single carriageway all the way, going through every town and village and getting stuck behind caravans towed by Austin Allegros.

Total nightmare and the crashes were just as bad believe me…

Are you taking the piss?

Total nightmare and the crashes were just as bad believe me…

I think this is what the fuss is about

I’ve noticed a rise in stupid overtaking manoeuvres over the last decade or so quite possibly due to the increased performance of the average car encouraging risk taking.

I’ve also noticed an increased proportion of drivers reluctant to overtake other vehicles under any circumstances for what ever reason.

It would solve a lot of problems on these A roads if drivers unwilling to overtake left enough of a gap in front allowing others to do so safely. Some of the convoys you encounter are terrible, vehicles bunched up together, leaving no room for overtaking whatsoever.

As much as speeding and dangerous driving should be a priority for the ever dwindling police patrols, I would like to see them address this as well.

Are you taking the piss?

in what respect?

“Truck drivers routinely obeying the 40mph limit“. Even the truck drivers groups admit they don’t do this as they were using it as a threat if they didn’t get their way with the “increase” to 50mph (which, of course, they will also ignore)

Even making an exception and raising the limit on the A9 trucks would still be travelling slower than they do anywhere else and people will still overtake them because of that so I’m not entirely sure what the trial can hope to prove. You’d either need to go the whole hog and raise it to 60 or drop the limit for cars down to 50.

A 50 limit would half the differential between Tesco HGVs and cars at the legal 60mph and thereforen queues would take longer to form and drivers would be happier to sit at 50mph than 40mph in a queue. The number of reckless overtakes would hopefully be reduced.

After all 40mph is a speed limit used on many urban roads with frequent junctions, many cyclists, and footways with pedestrians. It’s appropriate for roads the standard of the A9 in rural locations to have a 50mph HGV limit.

Average speed cameras? I’ve no objection. I drive motorways all over Scotland and the M77 is the easiest. Traffic bunches less and there is fewer speeding vehicles. That said I don’t think the average speed cameras will do anything for dangerous overtakes. The difference with the A77 is that cars can pretty much drive at the legal limit. On single carriageway sections of the A9 drivers will still want to overtake if the are forced to drive for many miles at 20mph below their limit. I’d rather the cash for average cameras was put towards more dualling.

I can see your point but if you wanted to overtake an HGV wouldn’t you prefer it was doing 40 rather than 50?

Reading some of the hair-raising posts has brought back various stomach-lurching, near death memories. The worst of which was on the A68, Southbound, past Jedburgh as you head into the National Park. I was sitting behind an estate of some kind – he was doing about 50 which was a little slower than I wanted to go but there hadn’t been an overtaking opportunity so I just hung back and waited. It was pitch black.

Suddenly a car screamed up behind me, sat on my tail for a minute or so, then overtook on a blind, sharp corner with a blind dip. Out of this dip appeared a car travelling the other way, perhaps 20 feet away, though itseemed less. I slammed on the brakes and jjunked left onto the narrow verge, convinced there was about to be a massive crash.

Astoundingly, the overtaking car skewed in front of me – can’t have been more than inches from being a mangled wreck. The other car was up on the opposite verge. The overtaker didn’t even slow down and overtook the car in front of me without dropping any speed.

Really, properly shook up.

I can see your point but if you wanted to overtake an HGV wouldn’t you prefer it was doing 40 rather than 50?

Yes, but as safe overtaking is often impossible for many miles I’d rather travel in a queue at 50 than 40. Wouldn’t everyone?

If there is no oncoming traffic then 40 or 50mph makes little difference when overtaking.

“Truck drivers routinely obeying the 40mph limit”. Even the truck drivers groups admit they don’t do this as they were using it as a threat if they didn’t get their way with the “increase” to 50mph (which, of course, they will also ignore)

I know they don’t generally obey the 40 limit nationwide – but on the A9 commonly (or more commonly than I’ve seen anywhere else) they do.

Personally I think having any sort of differential in speed limits between vehicles on a single carriageway is anachronistic, its fine on dual carriageway, but in single carriageways I think the speed limit needs to be set at a lowest common denominator for all traffic. Theres no reason why the limit for trucks couldn’t be 60 on the A9 – of all the single carriage way stretches in the UK its probably the one best suited to it – wide, gentle curves, decent slip roads, infrequent junctions, no pedestrian traffic to speak of – even a dedicated separate cycle lane for the whole length. But if you have a road where a truck would only travel safely at 40mph or 50mph because of the nature of the terrain, frequency of hazards like junctions and so on – then make that the limit for all.

http://www.cranleigh.co.uk/freight-industry-news/Freight-and-Haulage-General/Campaigning-lorry-drivers-plan-Christmas-chaos-on-A9/801667241/

UK freight drivers campaigning for an increased speed limit on the A9 in Scotland say they planning to protest on the road in the lead up to Christmas.
The move could cause major disruption at one of the busiest times of the year.
The protest, which will involve multiple lorries driving on the road at just 40mph, will be designed to show the public what traffic congestion will be like on the route if average speed cameras are fitted.

A great example of “change the law or we’ll stick to it” 😆

UK freight drivers campaigning for an increased speed limit on the A9 in Scotland say they planning to protest on the road in the lead up to Christmas.

I’m talking about the last decade, at least, rather than the weeks before xmas